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Old 02-06-2014, 12:27 PM   #1
DavidTigerFan
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S.h.i.e.l.d Oad 02/04/2014

You know, I was fine with this episode, up until the magic hyperbaric chamber was able to save Skye by not only reducing her temperature to 44 degrees (which would kill her) but increasing the pressure so fast it would rupture her eardrums.

Forgetting the fact that hyperbaric chambers have nothing to do with temperature, are the writers so lazy as to think that a nerd centered audience like us wouldn't catch that?

All they had to do was say "Look! It looks like some sort of stasis pod that the black guy was in! Lets put skye in there!" Lazy writing.
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Old 02-06-2014, 01:18 PM   #2
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Yeah, as a SCUBA diver I'm very familiar with hyperbaric chambers... I was going "whaaat???"

Very lame.
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Old 02-06-2014, 02:15 PM   #3
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I agree 99.9% of the way. But when it comes to killing Skye it is too early to assume she is human and 44 degrees would kill her.
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Old 02-06-2014, 02:17 PM   #4
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I agree 99.9% of the way. But when it comes to killing Skye it is too early to assume she is human and 44 degrees would kill her.
But Simmons did not know that when she suggested putting Skye in there.
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Old 02-06-2014, 02:17 PM   #5
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Yes, I was tempted to send this link to the writers as I also winced when Simmons said it was a hyperbaric chamber:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hyperbaric

That said, I'm sure we'll see Coulson's struggle to save Skye parallel Fury's struggle to save him.

Also, Deathlok technology?
Now that's obscure.
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Old 02-06-2014, 02:24 PM   #6
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Well, the hyperbaric chamber belonged to the same people who gave Mike a new robot leg from what looked like a tin can in about a minute and a half. Maybe it was a technologically advanced hyperbaric chamber.

I feel kinda bad that Skye got shot but she got shot because she is stupid. "Let me sneak into the bad guys' lair with no weapon, no backup, no idea how many henchmen are in said lair and where they're positioned and no idea what I'm looking for or where to find it."
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Old 02-06-2014, 02:26 PM   #7
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Well, the hyperbaric chamber belonged to the same people who gave Mike a new robot leg from what looked like a tin can in about a minute and a half. Maybe it was a technologically advanced hyperbaric chamber.

I feel kinda bad that Skye got shot but she got shot because she is stupid. "Let me sneak into the bad guys' lair with no weapon, no backup, no idea how many henchmen are in said lair and where they're positioned and no idea what I'm looking for or where to find it."
Well, she had a weapon. So only 98% stupid.
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Old 02-06-2014, 02:35 PM   #8
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But Simmons did not know that when she suggested putting Skye in there.
We can't be 100℅ sure what Simmons suspects. And although I do not want to over think it I thought she was portrayed as having a curious hestitation moment when dealing with Skye.
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Old 02-06-2014, 03:02 PM   #9
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I feel kinda bad that Skye got shot but she got shot because she is stupid. "Let me sneak into the bad guys' lair with no weapon, no backup, no idea how many henchmen are in said lair and where they're positioned and no idea what I'm looking for or where to find it."
Also, she opened the squeaky door painfully SLOWLY, giving anyone on the other side plenty of time to get in position to jump her. Then she stupidly left the door open and kept her back to the open doorway while she searched the room and spaced out looking at the guy in the chamber.

She was really asking for it.
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Old 02-06-2014, 04:41 PM   #10
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Yeah, as a SCUBA diver I'm very familiar with hyperbaric chambers... I was going "whaaat???"

Very lame.
Yeah, me to. Obviously it can raise the pressure, which might help her breath. And plausably it could increase the % of oxygen in the air, which certainly would help that.

But the chilling? A step too far.
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Old 02-06-2014, 05:13 PM   #11
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Yeah, me to. Obviously it can raise the pressure, which might help her breath. And plausably it could increase the % of oxygen in the air, which certainly would help that.

But the chilling? A step too far.
Lowering body temperature is a legitimate medical procedure, as is a hyperbaric chamber for some ailments besides the bends. So I took in the context of the show that the pod was doing multiple things, trying to be a less sci-fi equivalent of a stasis chamber. Given this is a sci-fi show, I wasn't bothered by the function it was intended to perform. It was only referred to as a hyperbaric chamber, but as this was in a moment of panic I'm ok with it being referred to as something similar, but not exactly, what is was intended to be.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therapeutic_hypothermia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperba...y#Medical_uses
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Old 02-06-2014, 05:47 PM   #12
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The accepted medical standards assert that a patient’s temperature should not fall below a threshold of 32 °C (90 °F)
Therapeutic hypothermia is not what we were shown.
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Old 02-06-2014, 06:32 PM   #13
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Lowering body temperature is a legitimate medical procedure, as is a hyperbaric chamber for some ailments besides the bends. So I took in the context of the show that the pod was doing multiple things, trying to be a less sci-fi equivalent of a stasis chamber. Given this is a sci-fi show, I wasn't bothered by the function it was intended to perform. It was only referred to as a hyperbaric chamber, but as this was in a moment of panic I'm ok with it being referred to as something similar, but not exactly, what is was intended to be.
I agree with the rat. It is clearly something more advanced that they just refer to by a common name.
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Old 02-06-2014, 07:02 PM   #14
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They should've called it a stasis chamber. Whoever wrote the script obviously has no background in Marvel Universe technology.
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Old 02-06-2014, 08:20 PM   #15
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While the chamber might have been ridiculous, I actually think this might have been the strongest episode to date. I enjoyed the doubling back in the storytelling (is there a name for what that's called? If not, I'm going to coin the term "asynchronous narrative" for it). And I liked the bit with the holo table. This is basically the type of show I hoped it would be when it was announced, but which it has mostly failed to be so far.
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Old 02-06-2014, 10:16 PM   #16
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I enjoyed the doubling back in the storytelling (is there a name for what that's called?
It can be called the Rashomon technique, but a purist would disagree in that that would only apply if the multiple viewpoints of the story disagree with one another and you never get a clear answer as to which is true. Still, that's usually the name that comes up.
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Old 02-07-2014, 12:19 AM   #17
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I enjoyed the doubling back in the storytelling (is there a name for what that's called? If not, I'm going to coin the term "asynchronous narrative" for it).
Each time I see the technique used, I get less impressed with it. I have mixed feelings about this particular case. Doubling back to show May's perspective was good use of the technique as it revealed new information (the train did not disappear as Colson and Ward had thought). Doubling back to show Ward's perspective was not, as it showed little more than Colson's perspective.

The chamber was a particular sore point for me, leading me to actually complain out loud during the episode. I understood the basis behind lowering her body temperature, but not raising the pressure. It was too much of a miraculous cure-all. They should have just made it some kind of Asgard technology.

Shooting Skye and reviving her added little to the episode. There was no suspense as we knew she would not die. Killing her did not really fit into the plot. It seemed like the writers threw it in there only to provide us with some contrived suspense, and to provide material for next week's episode.

There was also a lot of nonsensical behavior. All of the characters being placed on the train, with nobody left on the plane for example.

I'm becoming annoyed by the behind the scenes manipulations of the Clairvoyant. I want to see him/her/it by the end of the season.
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Old 02-07-2014, 06:48 PM   #18
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Now, if Simmons had used one of those stasis grenades in the chamber, I could see it paralyzing and freezing Skye. But, yeah, they handled it badly.

Spoiler:
I've heard they will be introducing Inhumans. I wonder if this will 'activate' Skye.

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Old 02-08-2014, 06:45 PM   #19
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The whole chamber thing was stupid since even if it did lower the temperature and raise the pressure, none of that helps if the person's heart has stopped. Lower someone's body temperature and raising the pressure doesn't cause the heart to start beating on it's own. They could of at least shocked her with some kind of S.H.I.E.L.D portable defibrillator before putting her in the chamber.

On the plus side, they did say leaving Skye in the chamber more than a few hours would kill her.
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Old 02-08-2014, 07:39 PM   #20
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The whole chamber thing was stupid since even if it did lower the temperature and raise the pressure, none of that helps if the person's heart has stopped. Lower someone's body temperature and raising the pressure doesn't cause the heart to start beating on it's own. They could of at least shocked her with some kind of S.H.I.E.L.D portable defibrillator before putting her in the chamber.
Actually, it is unlikely that a defibrillator would help if she was really asystole (flatlined). Despite the common TV trope, a defibrillator is effective at shocking the heart into a normal rhythm if the heart is randomly contracting (fibrillation) or beating too rapidly (tachycardia). But if the heart has completely stopped, a defibrillator is unlikely to restart it.

If a patient is asystole, then the best treatment is probably CPR and epinephrine. But even that is unlikely to restart the heart in most cases, especially if it resulted from blood loss.
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Old 02-08-2014, 08:42 PM   #21
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Actually, it is unlikely that a defibrillator would help if she was really asystole (flatlined). Despite the common TV trope, a defibrillator is effective at shocking the heart into a normal rhythm if the heart is randomly contracting (fibrillation) or beating too rapidly (tachycardia). But if the heart has completely stopped, a defibrillator is unlikely to restart it.

If a patient is asystole, then the best treatment is probably CPR and epinephrine. But even that is unlikely to restart the heart in most cases, especially if it resulted from blood loss.
Maybe it's different for loss of blood, but depending on the reason, a defibrillator can definitely restart a heart that's stopped.

While Wikipedia says defibrillators aren't used for cardiac arrest, the NIH's web site disagrees and says:
http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health//dci...reatments.html
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Sudden cardiac arrest (SCA) is an emergency. A person having SCA needs to be treated with a defibrillator right away. This device sends an electric shock to the heart. The electric shock can restore a normal rhythm to a heart that's stopped beating.
My dad had a heart attack with (what I was told included) cardiac arrest a few years ago, was shocked back by EMTs and had hypothermia medically induced (which is standard practice if consciousness is lost during a heart attack/cardiac arrest). Fortunately he made a full recovery, though he ended up needing several stents and later a quadruple bypass and a ICD.

CPR isn't designed to restart the heart. It's a stop gap measure to keep the person alive until real help arrives and isn't likely to restart the heart on it's own. Epinephrine is adrenalin, which is shown to help restart pulses In the short term when used with CPR by increasing blood pressure, but it's long term effectiveness is questioned. See http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23196774
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Old 02-09-2014, 03:27 PM   #22
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Maybe it's different for loss of blood, but depending on the reason, a defibrillator can definitely restart a heart that's stopped.
False.

You are confused. Cardiac arrest is a catch-all term, and is not the same as asystole (flatline), although asystole is one type of cardiac arrest. And I did not claim that CPR is a good treatment for asystole, only that epinephrine and CPR is the best treatment. It is still not likely to succeed.

The source you quoted is speaking loosely (or they are just incorrect). They probably meant that a defibrillator can restore normal rhythm to a heart that has stopped beating normally, not one that has stopped beating completely (asystole). As I said before, a defibrillator can be effective if the heart is fibrillating or in tachycardia.

And there was no indication that Skye's heart was fibrillating or in tachycardia. Most likely she was flatlined due to blood loss.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiac...Classification

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Old 02-09-2014, 03:42 PM   #23
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The source you quoted is speaking loosely (or they are just incorrect). [/url]
The source I quoted and linked to is the National Institute of Health which is the U.S. Government's leading medical research facility. I trust it more than I do a web site that can be edited by anyone with an Internet connection.
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Old 02-09-2014, 04:35 PM   #24
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The source I quoted and linked to is the National Institute of Health which is the U.S. Government's leading medical research facility. I trust it more than I do a web site that can be edited by anyone with an Internet connection.
Now you are just being silly. Can you cite a single reputable source that says that asystole should be treated with a defibrillator? Not ambiguous phrases like the source you cited used, but clearly stated "asystole" or at least words to the effect of flatline ECG.

Also, you seem to be ignoring the fact that your source was talking about sudden cardiac arrest.
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Old 02-09-2014, 07:13 PM   #25
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I was sure she said "some type of hyperbaric chamber" (which I could have lived with), but no, she said "it's a hyperbaric chamber" (I checked).
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Old 02-10-2014, 12:26 AM   #26
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People are missing the point. Morac said:

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They could of at least shocked her with some kind of S.H.I.E.L.D portable defibrillator before putting her in the chamber.
The S.H.I.E.L.D. portable defibrillator is obviously better than your run of the mill ordinary defibrillator. Of course it can revive people from a state of asystole. In certain cases, the SHIELD defibrillator can reverse brain damage, initiate spontaneous healing from mortal wounds, or even grant temporary invulnerability.

If they had used one on Skye, they could probably skip the entire next episode that will undoubtedly revolve around reviving Skye.
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Old 02-10-2014, 12:27 AM   #27
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The S.H.I.E.L.D. portable defibrillator is obviously better than your run of the mill ordinary defibrillator. Of course it can revive people from a state of asystole.
Then it should be called a heart starter, not a defibrillator.
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Old 02-10-2014, 03:27 PM   #28
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Then it should be called a heart starter, not a defibrillator.
But she was attacked by fibrills!
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Old 02-10-2014, 03:43 PM   #29
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But she was attacked by fibrills!
I hate when that happens. The only cure is a hyperbaric chamber.

(It's a myth that defibrillators work on fibrills.)
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:54 PM   #30
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I enjoyed the doubling back in the storytelling (is there a name for what that's called? If not, I'm going to coin the term "asynchronous narrative" for it).
I thought it was interesting in this episode. It was sort of, but not really, like Rashomon.. seeing the same scene from different perspectives.
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