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Old 12-04-2013, 11:37 AM   #241
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Originally Posted by jwbelcher View Post
In the firm I work for there are many partners that would NEVER accept blame or offer an apology for a failure. I really appreciate Margret's transparency. Honestly, without her involvement, I would have a different opinion on keeping this box.
While I appreciate TiVoMargret's willingness to keep us updated on the situation and also to express sorrow and regret, as John Wayne's Chance character in Rio Bravo said, "Sorry don't get it done, Dude."

I sure hope she posts a post-mortem on the situation and gives us some assurance that the problem is fixed, while also addressing the lack of any fail-over provisions in the software. Internet access can go down for many reasons and to allow your flagship product to have so many functions completely reliant on it is a huge, huge mistake.

At a minimum, I'd hope they open up the SDUI mode, if indeed it can be made available on the Roamio.
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Old 12-04-2013, 11:41 AM   #242
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I have watch the posts about TiVo's server outage with some amusement.

Yes we lost some functionality for a few hours. I understand that for some people it was a pain and if you actually needed/wanted some of the functionality that was disabled, I can understand being unhappy. But honestly I watch the same shows I was going to watch and my Roamio recorded the same shows it was supposed to without issue which is the primary function of a DVR. I looked this morning and it appears my Podcasts downloaded last night like usual and everything appears to be back to normal.

I have had my ISP be down for much longer periods which results in the same issues with my TiVos plus significantly disrupts me in many more ways.
I have to agree with you here. It was annoying as I wanted to download a show to my ipad which I couldn't do. But it really wasn't so bad. I was able to watch shows, record new ones and check the to do list. The box was noticeably slower and I did get a few blue circles but it wasn't the end of the world.

Honestly, what worries me most is that we've now had 2 or 3 of these server down moments in the last few weeks. I'm ok with one but they need to figure this out to make sure it doesn't happen more than about once or twice a year at most.
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Old 12-04-2013, 11:42 AM   #243
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What transparency? All she said is that the problem should be resolved and sorry it broke.

Transparency would be to give an overview of what happened, why it happened and some sort of update while the problem was occurring.

-TL
Its not only on this occasion, just read the posts here. If you looked at other service providers, do they have an executive acknowledge outages? No. Anyway, does it make a difference knowing that a server crashed or there was a network outage? In the end its the same result.

Being transparent means being willing to accept blame and providing insight that the issues are being worked.
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Old 12-04-2013, 11:49 AM   #244
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Transparency

I agree that this situation was NOT handled with the appropriate level of transparency. Going forward, there should be a "Service Status" box on the TiVo homepage that would have saved us, collectively, several hundred hours of screwing around, independently trying to solve a problem that we (now know) have no control over!

Hear this Tivo?
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Old 12-04-2013, 11:54 AM   #245
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Am I the only one who is offended that I apparently have to sign up for a TWITTER account to get the straight dope on the status of my Roamio's issues? Good grief, a simple post IN THIS THREAD from Tivo last night would have made a lot of us a lot more willing to simply sit back and wait for it to be fixed. ESPECIALLY when up until last night, if you called about a C133 error, it was blamed on your local LAN, and NEVER accepted as a Tivo issue.... even in the face of overwhelming evidence that it was NOT a LAN issue. We paid for the device, and we pay monthly for service. For that monthly service fee, I think Tivo owes us a bit more transparency than we have seen to date. Unless we have a Twitter account, apparently. Or is this forum simply not the place for status and / or dialog with Tivo? Paul
What about the people who don't read this forum but have Twitter? They could say the exact opposite thing. This forum is not an official TiVo help mechanism.
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Old 12-04-2013, 11:58 AM   #246
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I agree that this situation was NOT handled with the appropriate level of transparency. Going forward, there should be a "Service Status" box on the TiVo homepage that would have saved us, collectively, several hundred hours of screwing around, independently trying to solve a problem that we (now know) have no control over!

Hear this Tivo?
Such a "Service Status" notification on tivo.com would surely be helpful when the connection issue is on the TiVo side.

BUT, the real issue as far as I'm concerned is the semi-brick nature of the Roamio when service IS disrupted (whether on the TiVo side or a local outage).

Had TiVo done a better job addressing that as the issue, then having a service disruption would not have been the big problem it was.
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Old 12-04-2013, 11:59 AM   #247
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Am I the only one who is offended that I apparently have to sign up for a TWITTER account to get the straight dope on the status of my Roamio's issues?
I'm no Twitter fan and don't have an account there, but it's easy to follow Margaret on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/tivodesign

And there was info here too:

https://www.facebook.com/TiVo

I have both bookmarked and check them occasionally.
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Old 12-04-2013, 12:00 PM   #248
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Another good point!

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What about the people who don't read this forum but have Twitter? They could say the exact opposite thing. This forum is not an official TiVo help mechanism.
This undergirds my point that Tivo needs a service status box that is permanently on their home page. No doubt it would have saved all of us collectively at least hundreds of hours of aggravation trying to solve a problem that was ultimately not something we could have fixed!
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Old 12-04-2013, 12:02 PM   #249
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Thanks DeltaOne!

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I'm no Twitter fan and don't have an account there, but it's easy to follow Margaret on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/tivodesign

And there was info here too:

https://www.facebook.com/TiVo

I have both bookmarked and check them occasionally.
Wow, and I'm on FB all the time....it didn't occur to me to go there....I came to Tivo first! Again, if they had a service status box permanently on their home page, would have save a TON of time and frustration!
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Old 12-04-2013, 12:09 PM   #250
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I am just glad I have a Chromecast hooked up to my tv since I couldnt get Netflix to work ,on my roamio, last night ;P
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Old 12-04-2013, 12:15 PM   #251
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People shouldn't need to be screwing around with their home network and rebooting their boxes trying to rule out a local issue. As mentioned many times by nooneuknow that rebooting can cause GC issues that don't resolve easily.

Honestly, the message on Tivo Central dashboard could make it clear that its a remote service issue and leave zero ambiguity. We're all asking that a status be put up on tivo.com as that site did not go down during this episode. Think if our boxes could also accessed tivo.com (and perhaps even pull down the network heath status), it could inform us appropriately without a vague C133 error.
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Old 12-04-2013, 12:34 PM   #252
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When I see stuff like this, the first thing I do is come here to see if others are seeing it, too. If they are, I assume the problem is on the TiVo mothership and I don't bother doing anything with my own setup. No rebooting, no messing around with my home network,etc. I'll check to see if it's been reported to TiVo (checking the TiVo forums) and if it has, I just wait it out.

Those of you who rebooted and tried connecting to the mothership, if you know others are seeing the problem, why do you think you can fix it on your end?

While I agree a status box on the TiVo site would be a good idea to prevent the calls into customer support, I don't understand why so many people here spent so much time trying to debug it.
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Old 12-04-2013, 12:56 PM   #253
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Honestly, the message on Tivo Central dashboard could make it clear that its a remote service issue and leave zero ambiguity. We're all asking that a status be put up on tivo.com as that site did not go down during this episode. Think if our boxes could also accessed tivo.com (and perhaps even pull down the network heath status), it could inform us appropriately without a vague C133 error.
It doesn't make sense to build a status system into the box itself. That would just be more connections the box has to maintain and another point of failure. Plus, tivo.com is slow enough. I don't want a million TiVos simultaneously connecting to it.
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Old 12-04-2013, 01:11 PM   #254
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It doesn't make sense to build a status system into the box itself. That would just be more connections the box has to maintain and another point of failure. Plus, tivo.com is slow enough. I don't want a million TiVos simultaneously connecting to it.
You'd only use this when the normal services fail to connect. When the normal services / site goes down, you'd need another location to check health (self-diagnose). The call wouldn't screen-scrape by any means, that'd require the overhead of loading the full page at tivo.com, a simple servlet could do the job.
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Old 12-04-2013, 01:46 PM   #255
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People shouldn't need to be screwing around with their home network and rebooting their boxes trying to rule out a local issue. As mentioned many times by nooneuknow that rebooting can cause GC issues that don't resolve easily.

Honestly, the message on Tivo Central dashboard could make it clear that its a remote service issue and leave zero ambiguity. We're all asking that a status be put up on tivo.com as that site did not go down during this episode. Think if our boxes could also accessed tivo.com (and perhaps even pull down the network heath status), it could inform us appropriately without a vague C133 error.
Amen!
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Old 12-04-2013, 01:50 PM   #256
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So what we really need is some hackers to analyze the traffic back to the mothership and design a proxy we could put on our routers that pretends the TiVo service is alive when it actually isn't :-).
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Old 12-04-2013, 01:55 PM   #257
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Second, why in the WORLD is a DVR so dependent on an Internet connection? All that should matter is that a connection is successful at least often enough to keep the guide data supplied. Beyond that, all other data should be optional. What if my Internet provider (or ANY provider node between me and TiVo) is having its own issues unrelated to the TiVo servers? What about power outages, for folks with generators who can stay powered while the outside world is kaput?
Amen! I've even commented in the past on how HDUI eye candy can be impacted by Internet or LAN problems, but SDUI users might not even notice unless the problem lasts for more than a week and the TiVo starts to run out of guide data. And of course local functions like starting and stopping recordings don't (or didn't anyway) involve the network.

I bought a Roamio on Black Friday, but now I'm thinking about returning it instead of activating it. Requiring network connectivity for even basic DVR functions is not only fantastically stupid design, it's also morally bankrupt to the point that I may have to reconsider being a TiVo user unless they fix this.
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Old 12-04-2013, 01:59 PM   #258
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How did I miss the thread that tells of the Roamios not even maintaining the most simple of DVR core functions, in the event that it doesn't have constant and contiguous infusions of life breathed into it via something as easily disrupted as internet service.
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turns the Premiere into a brick with only basic DVR functionality, making the Premiere A BETTER PLATFORM, AND THE ROAMIO, WORST POSSIBLE ONE EVER DEVISED???
Over-dramatize much?

Look, I have already chimed in on how arrogant it is on TiVo's part to design a system like this. But the reality is our DVRs did work. They recorded what they should have, and you could ADD new recordings. It was difficult to cancel a recording, and search was down, but the most simple of DVR core functions (your words) were there.

Let's see how TiVo reacts to this. Perhaps some good will come from it, or they may just forget it happened. My response will depend on their response. But using CAPS and bold underlines really doesn't do much, except perhaps make the poster feel better.
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Old 12-04-2013, 02:26 PM   #259
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Over-dramatize much?

Look, I have already chimed in on how arrogant it is on TiVo's part to design a system like this. But the reality is our DVRs did work. They recorded what they should have, and you could ADD new recordings. It was difficult to cancel a recording, and search was down, but the most simple of DVR core functions (your words) were there.

Let's see how TiVo reacts to this. Perhaps some good will come from it, or they may just forget it happened. My response will depend on their response. But using CAPS and bold underlines really doesn't do much, except perhaps make the poster feel better.
I think we all now should understand that if TiVo went out of business it would not be that easy to just have some 3rd party provide guide data to keep out newer TiVos running, the TiVo server system is much more complex than I thought, so if Ads on the TiVo help keep TiVo in the black, stop complaining about them.
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Old 12-04-2013, 02:44 PM   #260
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Amen! I've even commented in the past on how HDUI eye candy can be impacted by Internet or LAN problems, but SDUI users might not even notice unless the problem lasts for more than a week and the TiVo starts to run out of guide data. And of course local functions like starting and stopping recordings don't (or didn't anyway) involve the network.

I bought a Roamio on Black Friday, but now I'm thinking about returning it instead of activating it. Requiring network connectivity for even basic DVR functions is not only fantastically stupid design, it's also morally bankrupt to the point that I may have to reconsider being a TiVo user unless they fix this.
I'm an early adopter, but a cheap early adopter! I've been mulling the purchase of a Roameo for the anywhere streaming capability....but at this point will likely keep my Premier XL and add the streaming box to that. I think that if I were in your position, I would do exactly what you're contemplating.
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Old 12-04-2013, 02:52 PM   #261
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Look, I have already chimed in on how arrogant it is on TiVo's part to design a system like this. But the reality is our DVRs did work. They recorded what they should have, and you could ADD new recordings. It was difficult to cancel a recording, and search was down, but the most simple of DVR core functions (your words) were there.
Simple? Sure, you could play and delete stuff, and live TV worked. But disabling the ability to search for shows already in the guide, or show upcoming eps, or schedule SPs, or use almost all of the network apps, or even something as simple as cancelling an upcoming in the ToDo List? None of which should have anything to do with whether they can spam you with the discovery bar etc.?

Unacceptable. Good thing we don't see this error all that much or the pitchforks would be coming a lot harder.
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Old 12-04-2013, 02:52 PM   #262
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Those of you who rebooted and tried connecting to the mothership, if you know others are seeing the problem, why do you think you can fix it on your end?

While I agree a status box on the TiVo site would be a good idea to prevent the calls into customer support, I don't understand why so many people here spent so much time trying to debug it.
It is very simple. Last night Tivo put a recorded message on the support phone number acknowledging the C133 issue, the fact that it was on their end and that they were working on it. To my knowledge, that was a first. Before that, whenever anyone called to report a C133 error the Tivo support personnel ALWAYS told us to reboot the Roamio as well as everything else in the network. Always. They NEVER even IMPLIED that it MIGHT be on their end. I went through several calls rebooting the modem and router but I refused to reboot the Roamio. I also refused to permanently open the port range that they also insisted was REQUIRED to fix a C133.

So if you are wondering why people keep assuming that something they do can fix a C133, that is why. The "official" support channel was telling us to, even though there was some indication that it was on their end.

I have to assume that Margaret Schmidt reads this forum and this thread. It is a pity she doesn't participate to the same extent that she participates on Twitter. This would seem to be a far better and more learned place to pass on knowledge. And I REALLY don't want to have to open a Twitter account.

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Old 12-04-2013, 03:10 PM   #263
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Such a "Service Status" notification on tivo.com would surely be helpful when the connection issue is on the TiVo side.

BUT, the real issue as far as I'm concerned is the semi-brick nature of the Roamio when service IS disrupted (whether on the TiVo side or a local outage).

Had TiVo done a better job addressing that as the issue, then having a service disruption would not have been the big problem it was.
The word "brick" in connection with the Roamio is enough to make me want to stay away from it....I don't care what prefix is in front of it. You sold me on keeping with my Premier! many thanks!
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Old 12-04-2013, 03:19 PM   #264
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You'd only use this when the normal services fail to connect. When the normal services / site goes down, you'd need another location to check health (self-diagnose). The call wouldn't screen-scrape by any means, that'd require the overhead of loading the full page at tivo.com, a simple servlet could do the job.
That is adding complexity to an already complex system. What TiVo needs is a status page on their website and the TiVo to show the link to that page in the error message. I would rather do that and spend more resources making the UI work better without an active connection than add another complex status check system on top of the TiVo code base.
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Old 12-04-2013, 03:37 PM   #265
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The word "brick" in connection with the Roamio is enough to make me want to stay away from it....I don't care what prefix is in front of it. You sold me on keeping with my Premier! many thanks!
Nothing wrong with keeping your Premiere but anyone telling you that the Roamio or Premiere performed significantly different during this outage is full of it. Pretty much what didn't work on the Roamio didn't work on the Premiere, and the basic DVR functions worked on both of them.
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Old 12-04-2013, 03:46 PM   #266
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Nothing wrong with keeping your Premiere but anyone telling you that the Roamio or Premiere performed significantly different during this outage is full of it. Pretty much what didn't work on the Roamio didn't work on the Premiere, and the basic DVR functions worked on both of them.
Good point. I had the C133 error on my Premiere last night as well. Can anyone outline specifically what, if anything, that Premieres could do that Roamios couldn't during the outage? It's an honest question - perhaps there are some items and I just haven't been able to identify them.
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Old 12-04-2013, 04:03 PM   #267
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Nothing wrong with keeping your Premiere but anyone telling you that the Roamio or Premiere performed significantly different during this outage is full of it. Pretty much what didn't work on the Roamio didn't work on the Premiere, and the basic DVR functions worked on both of them.
I really was only going to UG to the Roamio for the OOH streaming capability. I have a Sling Solo that just died and UG to either the Roamio or getting the Tivo Stream for my current Premier seemed easier than busting out my soldering iron to fix the capacitor that blew on the Sling. However as I skim the forums here and see that the Tivo Stream won't stream programs that have the CP flag set, which would kill anything airing on the premium channels, I think I might just have to fix the Sling after all.
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Old 12-04-2013, 04:13 PM   #268
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Yes you can, through the Guide
I tried that, didn't work. It popped up the same error I got when I tried to cancel via the To Do List. (I use the TiVo style guide, not the grid, if that matters)

This has got to be one of the stupidest limitations I ran into. Why would it ever need to talk to the server to cancel a recording? I was able to schedule a recording from the guide, but when I tried to cancel the same recording (realized it was a repeat) it wouldn't let me. That is really lame.
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Old 12-04-2013, 04:13 PM   #269
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Can anyone outline specifically what, if anything, that Premieres could do that Roamios couldn't during the outage?
Well, you can switch them to SDUI mode. I did that last time, and was able to do "Search by Title", and schedule a recording, while I couldn't search at all in HDUI mode. I didn't test for other functions.
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Old 12-04-2013, 04:15 PM   #270
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Dan, I posted about that yesterday, many hours ago... and several times!!! Wake up!!
I missed it, sorry. But I think we both agree that is one of the dumbest limitations to be exposed by this whole mess. Why the hell would it need to contact the server to delete a recording from the To Do List?
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