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Old 12-04-2013, 04:17 PM   #271
Dan203
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Originally Posted by wmcbrine View Post
Well, you can switch them to SDUI mode. I did that last time, and was able to do "Search by Title", and schedule a recording, while I couldn't search at all in HDUI mode. I didn't test for other functions.
The SDUI was entirely based around the data stored on the machine. It had no reliance on the TiVo servers and was likely fully functional with the possible exception of the web based TiVo Search.
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Old 12-04-2013, 04:20 PM   #272
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Well, you can switch them to SDUI mode. I did that last time, and was able to do "Search by Title", and schedule a recording, while I couldn't search at all in HDUI mode. I didn't test for other functions.
OK, thanks. Having only been with Tivo less than a year, I set up my Premiere with the HDUI guide and have honestly never bothered to mess with the SDUI guide, so never would have thought of that.
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Old 12-04-2013, 05:07 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
I tried that, didn't work. It popped up the same error I got when I tried to cancel via the To Do List. (I use the TiVo style guide, not the grid, if that matters)

I just tested it in both Guide styles by disconnecting the internet to the TiVo and it worked.

Go to show in the guide, press record, options are "Continue recording" or "Stop recording"
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Old 12-04-2013, 05:08 PM   #274
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ya-hoo! i think the value of my P4 just went up some! thanks sdui!
but seriously, why is such a big deal being made of this? for the past 3 months that i've had my P4 the discovery bar and other stuff has some error message maybe once a week.
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Old 12-04-2013, 05:10 PM   #275
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Originally Posted by pgoelz View Post
Before that, whenever anyone called to report a C133 error the Tivo support personnel ALWAYS told us to reboot the Roamio as well as everything else in the network. Always. They NEVER even IMPLIED that it MIGHT be on their end.


Paul

Not true
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Old 12-04-2013, 05:14 PM   #276
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I hate how Twitter and even Facebook have become defacto customer complaint portals when they are poorly designed for that function. (Workflow? Notifications? Follow-up? Shared queues?)

That being said, as far as I know TiVo did not even use their own support infrastructure to announce the status.

Is their KB software so static that they can't add a banner to the top or at least update the C133 troubleshooting guide to mention that IT IS ON THEIR END, so stop restarting your TiVos, routers and cable modems?

And how bad is their internal communication or policies that they have CS agents walking users through the busy work of troubleshooting local issues when somebody in Ops *certainly knows* that is a waste of time?

And why would it be so awful to either 1) authorize high level staff in Ops to post emergency status updates to official Facebook/Twitter accounts or 2) have the PR staff be on-call to post those updates in case of a catastrophic failure like this.

Think of how much better it would've been if there was a note on Tivo.com, support.tivo.com, forums.tivo.com referenced from Twitter/Facebook that said:

Quote:
We are currently experiencing problems with our servers that support the TiVo Premiere and Roamio recorders. Symptoms include:

* Error message: "Problem with the service (C133)"
* Discovery bar at top not properly displaying
* Problems connecting to Netflix, Hulu services.

Note that you can still use your TiVo recorder to watch live TV as well as any previously recorded programs. Additionally, scheduled recordings will proceed as usual.

We apologize for the inconvience, but at this point we expect things to be resolved tomorrow morning. Thank you for your patience.
Instead we got:

* 2 posts on Twitter from @TiVo from 5:08PM and 8:52PM (apparently some people got Direct Messages back)
* 1 post on Facebook from 7:40PM
* NO subsequent follow-up in either of those channels (I refuse to dig through comments to see if anyone from TiVo was ridiculous enough to respond there. That would be idiocy.)
* STILL no mention of the outage via announcement banner on support.tivo.com or forums.tivo.com

* Angry users in the forums.tivo.com and here on tivocommunity.com, comparing notes, threatening to drop service, return devices, and generally pissed off.
* Updates from @tivodesign, which while useful are not even close to an official support channel. (How would anybody know to look for Margret's Twitter feed?)

How can anyone in the TiVo PR, Ops or Executive organization not see this as something that needs to be addressed *today*, via a similar message above, explaining what went wrong and more importantly, how they will be addressing similar issues like it in the future?

Last edited by notyou : 12-04-2013 at 05:29 PM.
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Old 12-04-2013, 05:37 PM   #277
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Originally Posted by cherry ghost View Post
I just tested it in both Guide styles by disconnecting the internet to the TiVo and it worked.

Go to show in the guide, press record, options are "Continue recording" or "Stop recording"
I wasn't trying to stop a recording in progress, I was trying to unschedule a recording that wasn't happening until later in the evening.
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Old 12-04-2013, 05:39 PM   #278
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Originally Posted by hfcsyrup View Post
ya-hoo! i think the value of my P4 just went up some! thanks sdui!
but seriously, why is such a big deal being made of this? for the past 3 months that i've had my P4 the discovery bar and other stuff has some error message maybe once a week.
This was the first prolonged failure of the system ever that I'm aware of. I think this is the first time many people, including myself, really realized how crippled the box is without a connection to the service.
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Old 12-04-2013, 06:01 PM   #279
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The word "brick" in connection with the Roamio is enough to make me want to stay away from it....I don't care what prefix is in front of it. You sold me on keeping with my Premier! many thanks!
The outage affected my Premiere Elite too. I think any TiVo with an active HD GUI is going to be affected. The problem hasn't bothered me enough to switch back to the SDUI.
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Old 12-04-2013, 06:17 PM   #280
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I missed it, sorry. But I think we both agree that is one of the dumbest limitations to be exposed by this whole mess. Why the hell would it need to contact the server to delete a recording from the To Do List?
Clearly that is messed up. FYI I was able to bring up To Do List and cancel an upcoming recording yesterday using kmttg during the outage, which makes it even stranger why the HDUI cannot...

EDIT: I didn't try it, but my guess is you should be able to bring up To Do List from a Mini and cancel upcoming recording as that is the same RPC mechanism kmttg is using.
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Old 12-04-2013, 06:29 PM   #281
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Of course this outage happened right when I was setting up my new Roamio Plus. I was going crazy thinking that I got a DOA device until I came here.

I always have the best timing
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Old 12-04-2013, 06:32 PM   #282
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For what it's worth. The last time the TiVo servers went down (was sometime last year), I recommended having a server status on their web site. As noticed, this was never implemented.

At least last time, the entire tivo.com web site was down which gave people some clue that the problem was on TiVo's end.
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Old 12-04-2013, 06:36 PM   #283
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Of course this outage happened right when I was setting up my new Roamio Plus. I was going crazy thinking that I got a DOA device until I came here.

I always have the best timing
So your the one that broke the servers
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Old 12-04-2013, 06:41 PM   #284
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I wasn't trying to stop a recording in progress, I was trying to unschedule a recording that wasn't happening until later in the evening.

You can do that too.

Find show in guide, press select, season pass & other options, recording options, cancel this show, yes cancel this recording

The C133 error comes up, but the recording is canceled
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Old 12-04-2013, 06:41 PM   #285
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So your the one that broke the servers
Yup, it was me
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Old 12-04-2013, 06:54 PM   #286
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You can do that too.

Find show in guide, press select, season pass & other options, recording options, cancel this show, yes cancel this recording

The C133 error comes up, but the recording is canceled
Didn't work for me. I was scheduling the show from the guide so the first thing I tried was canceling from the guide. I got the error so I tried doing it from the To Do List and got the error again. I then tried the iPad app but couldn't even get that to load.
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Old 12-04-2013, 06:58 PM   #287
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Didn't work for me. I was scheduling the show from the guide so the first thing I tried was canceling from the guide. I got the error so I tried doing it from the To Do List and got the error again. I then tried the iPad app but couldn't even get that to load.
In the order I posted, or did you do

Season pass & other options --> cancel this recording

That doesn't work
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Old 12-04-2013, 07:04 PM   #288
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In the order I posted, or did you do

Season pass & other options --> cancel this recording

That doesn't work
I might have done it that way. But why does one work and the other not? Still a stupid problem that shouldn't exist.
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Old 12-04-2013, 07:06 PM   #289
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Am I the only one who is offended that I apparently have to sign up for a TWITTER account to get the straight dope on the status of my Roamio's issues?
Nope, you are not alone. I don't "do" Twitter or Facebook (or Google Plus). I would much prefer to see a status message on their web home page. That is the very first place I would go/look.
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Old 12-04-2013, 07:06 PM   #290
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So, is everyone working now? Mine seems to be fixed. Hopefully it stays that way.
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Old 12-04-2013, 07:17 PM   #291
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Simple? Sure, you could play and delete stuff, and live TV worked. But disabling the ability to search for shows already in the guide, or show upcoming eps, or schedule SPs, or use almost all of the network apps, or even something as simple as cancelling an upcoming in the ToDo List? None of which should have anything to do with whether they can spam you with the discovery bar etc.?
Many of those, for better or worse (and it was worse during this episode) actually do affect the Discovery Bar, or do link to internet supplied info. The TiVo attempts to customize the DB for the particular show being looked at, or even possibly a show being deleted (I didn't check this when I looked a while back). In the process, it sends out multiple DNS requests as well as exchanging info with the TiVo servers. There is an amazing amount of info going back and forth with button presses in the HDUI.
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Old 12-04-2013, 07:21 PM   #292
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Nope, you are not alone. I don't "do" Twitter or Facebook (or Google Plus). I would much prefer to see a status message on their web home page. That is the very first place I would go/look.
Certainly not alone. Twitter and Facebook are blocked by my router as I want nothing to do with those sites and don't want anybody using my home network to have access to them either. It's pretty amazing how many web pages I see my router "blocked" icon showing up in.
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Old 12-04-2013, 08:27 PM   #293
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Hey, who knew that when we bought our Roamio's we were getting "cloud" DVRs?

At one point, it was working so I started downloading some recordings and then it went down again which caused the downloads to stall.

Then this morning, the service was back up and I was able to complete the downloads, though the odd thing is, the file size changed from 305 MB for 30-minute recordings at medium settings to over 500 MB. Initially, when it came back it was showing the download was going to be over 1000 MB and then it adjusted down
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Old 12-04-2013, 08:41 PM   #294
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The iPad downloads seem to use VBR encoding now, so the sizes are just guesses. The less movement a show has the more likely it is that it'll end up significantly smaller then the estimate.
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Old 12-04-2013, 11:38 PM   #295
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Before that, whenever anyone called to report a C133 error the Tivo support personnel ALWAYS told us to reboot the Roamio as well as everything else in the network. Always. They NEVER even IMPLIED that it MIGHT be on their end.


Paul
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Not true
Don't mean to argue with you.... yes, the word "anyone" above might have been a bit of an exaggeration but this IS true in my case.

I have called support three times about C133 error messages. On each call I was told to reboot the router, modem and finally the Roamio. On each call, I was also told something contradictory about how to DEFINITELY fix the issue. One call, I was told I had to permanently open some ports. The next call, I was told that applied to WiFi connections only (I am wired). The next call, I was told again to open ports because that DID apply to wired connections. On each call, during the troubleshooting process I WAS told to reboot the Roamio. I rebooted the modem and router (which did not resolve the C133) but I stopped short of rebooting the Roamio. At no point did any of this resolve the issue.

On each call, I raised the possibility that the issue was on Tivo's end because everything else on my LAN was functioning perfectly before, during and after a C133 and I had a 29Mb/S connection with good pings to the west coast.

On each call, I was told it definitely was NOT on Tivo's end. Which did not inspire confidence that they were looking in the right place.... if at all.

Again, don't mean to argue about it. Just stating my experiences with Tivo support. Now that it seems that Tivo is aware of the causes, I'm a lot less concerned.... looks like it will get fixed. When Tivo was blaming my LAN, I had my doubts.

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Old 12-05-2013, 02:40 AM   #296
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Amen! I've even commented in the past on how HDUI eye candy can be impacted by Internet or LAN problems, but SDUI users might not even notice unless the problem lasts for more than a week and the TiVo starts to run out of guide data. And of course local functions like starting and stopping recordings don't (or didn't anyway) involve the network.

I bought a Roamio on Black Friday, but now I'm thinking about returning it instead of activating it. Requiring network connectivity for even basic DVR functions is not only fantastically stupid design, it's also morally bankrupt to the point that I may have to reconsider being a TiVo user unless they fix this.
Couldn't say it any better myself, on the points you have brought up.

I'm also heavily reconsidering. Part of me wants all Roamios out of my sight, and to return them. Part of me hopes TiVo can still put the databases back on the individual units, and eliminate the threat of being unable to access the infernal "cloud". I'm no fan of any cloud services. If I didn't even know about TiVo, or they didn't exist, I'd still be no fan of cloud services.

To each their own. But, cloud data storage will never be a part of anything I do that I have a choice in, only what I don't have a choice in, or as I feel with the TiVo Roamio, I was duped into, by deceptive practices. Now the truth has been revealed.
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Old 12-05-2013, 03:05 AM   #297
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Good point. I had the C133 error on my Premiere last night as well. Can anyone outline specifically what, if anything, that Premieres could do that Roamios couldn't during the outage? It's an honest question - perhaps there are some items and I just haven't been able to identify them.
How about being able to switch to SDUI mode, and essentially then having a TiVo HD UI not displaying anything is wrong, like a TiVo HD, and having the databases still residing on the TiVo Premiere hard drive, not just in the cloud, which went down, and whatever amount of the databases can fit in memory?

I will note that the OTT internet apps did not work, if you tried them, but neither would they on a real TiVo HD. TiVo forces those apps to involve the TiVo service (which I'm not alone in not liking, and has been a sore spot going way, way back for a great many people on here).

I recall a mention of either a Premiere or Roamio owner saying the direct ways in didn't work for them, but they got in using "watch now from Netflix" from a program's information. I'm leaning towards that had to have been a Premiere, or it might have been an not-rebooted Roamio, that still had that info in memory.

I'm sure there's more. I'd just like to get fully caught up and not spend a day getting there.
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Old 12-05-2013, 03:12 AM   #298
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Meh. Im not ready to dump my TiVo just yet. I've had little blips where I lost the stuff at the of the NPL, but this is the first time this has really been disruptive for me. If it becomes a regular occurrence or if it impacts the core functionality of my DVR then I guess I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

I have to believe that TiVo's top priority will be to never let this happen again. After all, as you say, the cat is now out of the bag. I hope it doesn't cause them too much churn. I really need them to stay in business. The one bright side of all this is that they are probably making BANK selling our viewing stats.
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Old 12-05-2013, 03:13 AM   #299
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ya-hoo! i think the value of my P4 just went up some! thanks sdui!
but seriously, why is such a big deal being made of this? for the past 3 months that i've had my P4 the discovery bar and other stuff has some error message maybe once a week.
Because not everybody is running a Premiere?

Because it affects Roamios differently?

Then again, if you really have to ask, you must not have read more than a handful of "after the outage ended" posts when you came in and posted this.
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Old 12-05-2013, 03:26 AM   #300
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Hey, who knew that when we bought our Roamio's we were getting "cloud" DVRs? <snip>
Not me. Apparently close to nobody. If I had known, I'd have never remotely considered the Roamio, period.

Although, it's better to call it a hybrid cloud DVR, since your shows do, in fact, record to your hard drive, and not beam to the cloud to be stored there.

It's the databases that got moved to the cloud, and no longer on the drive. It seems many assumed the databases were now in solid-state memory, along with the operating system, which now resides there.
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