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Old 05-24-2015, 09:38 PM   #1
chrishicks
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S3 - blue light on front panel and nothing else

So I just got home about an hour ago and noticed one of my S3's had no display other than the blue light. I go over to that input and there's no image or anything on screen. I pull the plug to reboot and still just a blue light. I open it up and the fan isn't spinning but the HDD is. I swap out the power supply with a spare I have from a new S3 and it's still just a blue light and nothing else. What could the issue be?

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Old 05-25-2015, 12:08 AM   #2
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Update:

There's no power on the fan plug. I pulled the board after I noticed this to get a look on the bottom side and I see no visible burn marks or anything that shows any kind of damage. To test even farther I ended up playing musical parts between 3 different S3 boxes and no matter what power supply I put in the other 2 everything worked. It's just this single box that has the issue.

So now that there's no power to the fan plug what can I do?

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Old 05-25-2015, 08:14 AM   #3
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Is it a HD with a blue light?

I am working on a HD with flashing green light so just kind of wondering if there is something new now.

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Old 05-25-2015, 02:37 PM   #4
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It's the OLED S3.

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Old 05-25-2015, 05:02 PM   #5
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Are any caps

Have a domed top on them on the power supply? I have never seen a blue light what that's the transfer light. Did someone transfer a show to your TiVo? Please check the caps on the power supply first.

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Old 05-25-2015, 05:27 PM   #6
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Nope, no transfers were made. I checked the caps and they look fine(to my crappy eyes anyway). I even swapped out the power supply in the unit with ones from working boxes and it's the same result each time. All I get is a single blue light on the front display. No clock or anything like usual. I put the power supply from the dead box into the working ones and it works in those as well.

To clarify a bit more. I have a bunch of S3's in the house. Some with Lifetime(4) others just around for parts. All of them work minus the one that died yesterday. I first used a spare power supply that works in the box it was originally in(powered it up to make sure before the swap) and in the dead S3 it doesn't work. I then opened up my S3 that I use for just OTA that has a newer Weaknees replaced PS and again nothing in the dead box. I put the dead box PS in the OTA S3 and it worked. I can move the various power supplies between all the S3's except the dead one and they all work.

I test the voltage at the fan plug on the motherboard in the dead box and there's nothing at all to it. I'm talking 0v. In the other boxes I see 12v. It's the same with all the power supplies. I moved 3 power supplies between the 3 S3's and tested after each swap. For test purposes:

S3 #1(working) - power supply 1, 2 and 3 work (HDD spins, fan runs, boots up)
S3 #2(working) - same as above
S3 #3(dead) - none work I just get a blue light

Now maybe I'm doing something wrong in my troubleshooting but it just seems odd that I have 3 power supplies that power 2 out of 3 boxes which I would guess says the power supply wouldn't be the problem but honestly I'm not sure about it.

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Old 05-25-2015, 05:36 PM   #7
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Here's a quick picture of the front display:

http://imgur.com/Fj13Svp

It's not the greatest but you can see what I mean about the blue light. I can pull the power supply and get some pictures of that if anyone wants to see it. Just let me know.

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Old 05-25-2015, 06:14 PM   #8
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No that ok

Let me do some looking around tonight and see if I can find a answer for you. It's seems to be a crazy last two weeks for the S3's

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Old 05-25-2015, 07:07 PM   #9
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That link isn't bringing up anything for me.

Scott

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Old 05-25-2015, 08:14 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrishicks View Post
So I just got home about an hour ago and noticed one of my S3's had no display other than the blue light. I go over to that input and there's no image or anything on screen. I pull the plug to reboot and still just a blue light. I open it up and the fan isn't spinning but the HDD is. I swap out the power supply with a spare I have from a new S3 and it's still just a blue light and nothing else. What could the issue be?

If you've got WinMFS loaded on a Windows machine, hook the drive to that and see if it can see the drive okay, and run

mfsinfo

after selecting that drive and see if it reports with no problem, just to eliminate the drive as a suspect.


The 2 pin fan power header is fed a Pulse Width Modulated signal, which is +12V, then off, then +12V, then off, over and over again, and the ratio of on and off determines the average voltage, which determines the fan speed.

Maybe the circuit that supplies that doesn't, for some reason, think it's hot enough to run the fan, or maybe it isn't getting the signal to start the fan.

The fan may start very soon after the power supply is energized, but it's not instantaneous, and I've even seen it take a second or two on some units.

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Old 05-25-2015, 08:29 PM   #11
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I don't know if this helps any but:

Quote:
Mfsinfo (Drive 10)

Boot Page
Boot Page: root=/dev/hda4
Active Boot Partition: 3 Active Root Partition: 4
Backup Boot Partition: 6 Backup Root Partition: 7

MFS Super Header
state=0 magic=abbafeed
devlist=/dev/hda10 /dev/hda11 /dev/hda12 /dev/hda13 /dev/hda14 /dev/hda15
zonemap_ptr=1121 total_secs=1951665152

Zone Maps
Z0: type=0
map_start=1121 map_size=1 backup_map_start=589822
next_map_start=263266 next_map_size=9 next_backup_map_start=589813
zone_first=1122 zone_last=263265 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
free=262144 checksum=b4ea8057 logstamp=22373232 num_bitmap=1
Z1: type=2
map_start=263266 map_size=9 backup_map_start=589813
next_map_start=263275 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=589779
zone_first=589824 zone_last=217329663 zone_size=216739840 min(chunk)=20480
free=143360 checksum=401a346f logstamp=25755659 num_bitmap=15
Z2: type=1
map_start=263275 map_size=34 backup_map_start=589779
next_map_start=217336832 next_map_size=1 next_backup_map_start=217926655
zone_first=263309 zone_last=589772 zone_size=326464 min(chunk)=8
free=10744 checksum=a8f1f20f logstamp=25784333 num_bitmap=17
Z3: type=0
map_start=217336832 map_size=1 backup_map_start=217926655
next_map_start=217598977 next_map_size=130 next_backup_map_start=217926525
zone_first=217336833 zone_last=217598976 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
free=262144 checksum=ef39bd79 logstamp=22373232 num_bitmap=1
Z4: type=2
map_start=217598977 map_size=130 backup_map_start=217926525
next_map_start=217599107 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=217926491
zone_first=217926656 zone_last=486544383 zone_size=268617728 min(chunk)=2048
free=946176 checksum=ddec994e logstamp=25784333 num_bitmap=19
Z5: type=1
map_start=217599107 map_size=34 backup_map_start=217926491
next_map_start=486544384 next_map_size=66 next_backup_map_start=486546366
zone_first=217599141 zone_last=217926484 zone_size=327344 min(chunk)=8
free=265120 checksum=cf8e0ce logstamp=25784233 num_bitmap=17
Z6: type=2
map_start=486544384 map_size=66 backup_map_start=486546366
next_map_start=0 next_map_size=0 next_backup_map_start=2863311530
zone_first=486546432 zone_last=1951665151 zone_size=1465118720 min(chunk)=20480
free=8519680 checksum=919108b5 logstamp=25784333 num_bitmap=18

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple 63@1 ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 1@485366126 ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 8192@485366127 ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 524288@485374319 ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 1@485898607 ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 8192@485898608 ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 524288@485906800 ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap 262144@486431088 ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var 524288@486693232 ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region 589824@487217520 ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region 216747657@268618469 ( 103.4G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 589824@487807344 ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 268618405@64 ( 128.1G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs 2048@488397168 ( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs 1465118720@488399216 ( 698.6G)

Total SA SD Hours: 1040 Total DTV SD Hours: 908 0 % Free
Software: 11.0m-01-2-648 Tivo Model: TCD648250B
And when testing the fan I left the unit plugged in for roughly 5 minutes(both with and without the HDD being powered for testing) and the plug never showed an ounce of juice although I admit I didn't keep the tester on it for the entire 5 minutes each time. On my other S3's used for testing there was power to the plug every time I checked.

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Old 05-26-2015, 09:31 AM   #12
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One more try.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...50b+blue+light



http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...50b+blue+light

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Old 05-27-2015, 02:05 AM   #13
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A not so good update. Another S3 is now having a problem. The fan no longer runs on this one either. It still boots up and was running just with no fan. I only noticed because I was wiping the top down and noticed it felt really hot. I checked the temp from the menus and it was at 61C so I immediately pulled the plug and removed the top to let it get some much needed air. After a few minutes of cooling I disconnected the HDD from the power and plugged it back in. The fan never once spun up. The thing is, there's still power on the plug this time unlike my first one. I tried an extra fan and no go with that one either. Did someone push a "time to brick" update or what because it just seems so odd that 2 units went belly up in 2 days.

Edit to add: Both units(all of them actually) are plugged into UPS boxes and not surge strips. I figure someone may have had the thought cross their mind about it because of them dropping like flies so I figured I'd mention it.

Edit #2: Since this is now 2 boxes should I consider at least 1 power supply replacement for testing? I will get some voltage readings for the various wires(yellow, red, orange) after I get a bit more motivated in the day and post them. Just to be sure it was:

yellow - 12v
red - 5v
orange - 3v

correct?

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Old 05-27-2015, 06:34 AM   #14
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Are all of your TiVo's S3 OLED's as there should be a 7.5V line for the OLED display and the 3V should be 3.3V (sorry don't have the colors documented)? I'm also asking since you indicated that you swapped power supplies above (or at least for 1, 2 and 3).

Scott

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Old 05-27-2015, 06:59 AM   #15
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Yep, all of them are the OLED version. I think the 7.5v is a grey wire. Or maybe an off white. I recall seeing one other than the 3 mentioned above. Should I check that one too just to be safe?

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Old 05-27-2015, 07:13 AM   #16
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OK, I only tested the first S3(#1) that died as it's the easiest one to check since it's sitting on my desk still torn apart. The voltages are low on a few lines.

Red - ranges from 4.90v-5.0v
Orange - 3.09v-3.23v
Yellow - 5.03v-7.19v
Grey - 7.75v - this one was pretty solid just moving between 7.75-7.76v

I'll get to the other boxes in a bit and will edit this post to add the numbers in.

Edit: S3 #2 (with the Weakness replacement)

Red - 5v-5.32v
Orange - 3.08v-3.25v
Yellow - 5.83v-8.80v
Grey - 7.70v-7.73v

S3 #2 is the newest one to stop working fully. It's the one where the fan stopped running.

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Last edited by chrishicks; 05-27-2015 at 07:31 AM.
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Old 05-27-2015, 07:55 AM   #17
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Where the beef? no 12 volt?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrishicks View Post
OK, I only tested the first S3(#1) that died as it's the easiest one to check since it's sitting on my desk still torn apart. The voltages are low on a few lines.

Red - ranges from 4.90v-5.0v
Orange - 3.09v-3.23v
Yellow - 5.03v-7.19v
Grey - 7.75v - this one was pretty solid just moving between 7.75-7.76v

I'll get to the other boxes in a bit and will edit this post to add the numbers in.

Edit: S3 #2 (with the Weakness replacement)

Red - 5v-5.32v
Orange - 3.08v-3.25v
Yellow - 5.83v-8.80v
Grey - 7.70v-7.73v

S3 #2 is the newest one to stop working fully. It's the one where the fan stopped running.
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I don't see any 12 volt on your testing. That's a problem the fan is 12vdc.
The yellow is 12 make sure you have a good ground.
Red=5 VDC
Orange = 3 VDC
Yellow + 12 VDC
Gray = 7 VDC


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Old 05-27-2015, 08:02 AM   #18
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This is where I'm lost. Let's look at S3 #2. If I take my voltmeter and tap the yellow from inside the plug that connects to the motherboard I get the number posted above. I ground the negative to the chassis by the way. However if I make the connection to the motherboard and then test the fan plug I see 12v. It's like there's something lost in the mix somewhere.

And with S3 #1 I see the same voltage numbers pretty much at the plug but if I make the motherboard connection I don't see anything at the fan plug.

I have to be doing something not quite right, correct?

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Old 05-27-2015, 08:14 AM   #19
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For testing

Unplug the HDD everything but the power to the system board then test all your voltages. I think you have a one of those weird problems. Try to unplug and reset the power connector a few times. I had one that drove me crazy and I did just that and it worked. I think it's the lead free solder breaking down over time.

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File Type: jpg TCD648250B P-S -TP.jpg (47.4 KB, 11 views)
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Old 05-27-2015, 08:20 AM   #20
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I didn't have anything plugged in when I did the tests above. It's just the power supply mounted in the box not connected to anything. I plug in the cord and then test the voltages tapping into the plug while grounding on the chassis.

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Old 05-27-2015, 08:31 AM   #21
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OK, after re-reading what you said I now have the motherboard plugged in and am now seeing 11.74v on the yellow, 5.06v on the red, 3.27v on the 3.3v line reading from the power supply board going from the connections in your picture. Still just the solid blue light and nothing else. And the HDD is removed currently.

EDIT: with the HDD installed and connected the 12v line drops down to 11.25-11.30v.

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Old 05-27-2015, 08:44 AM   #22
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the 12 volt line

is within the limits, let me see if I have this right you tested voltage with nothing hooked up just the P/S? If so you got a problem it's a switching supply and should not have any output unplugged from the main board.

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Old 05-27-2015, 08:48 AM   #23
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My first reading was the power supply mounted in the S3 but not connected to the motherboard or the HDD. I then plugged it into the wall and got the readings through the plug that connects to the motherboard..

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Old 05-27-2015, 08:59 AM   #24
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Oh wow

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrishicks View Post
My first reading was the power supply mounted in the S3 but not connected to the motherboard or the HDD. I then plugged it into the wall and got the readings through the plug that connects to the motherboard..
____________________________________________________________ _

That's crazy it's a time consuming but check every diode on the P/S. Make sure you test the ones on the bottom. I found one yesterday on a HD supply that was bad. PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU KNOW WHERE BOTH ENDS OF THAT POWER CORD IS AT ALL TIME. TAKE IT OUT OF THE ROOM. I don't know what part of the country your in but if there is anything I can help you with just hit me up with a pm.
Oh I'm in Baton Rouge, La...
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Old 05-27-2015, 10:03 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrishicks View Post
This is where I'm lost. Let's look at S3 #2. If I take my voltmeter and tap the yellow from inside the plug that connects to the motherboard I get the number posted above. I ground the negative to the chassis by the way. However if I make the connection to the motherboard and then test the fan plug I see 12v. It's like there's something lost in the mix somewhere.

And with S3 #1 I see the same voltage numbers pretty much at the plug but if I make the motherboard connection I don't see anything at the fan plug.

I have to be doing something not quite right, correct?

The metal chassis and the black wires from the power supply that go to the plug that goes on the motherboard should be at the same potential, with 0 Volts difference between them.

Either should be a perfectly acceptable place to put the negative lead of the voltmeter.

The black wires connect to a large area of copper on the bottom of the power supply circuit board and this copper area includes around all of the screw holes where the board is attached to the chassis.

This is the power supply and motherboard's ground circuit.

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Old 05-27-2015, 10:05 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrishicks View Post
OK, after re-reading what you said I now have the motherboard plugged in and am now seeing 11.74v on the yellow, 5.06v on the red, 3.27v on the 3.3v line reading from the power supply board going from the connections in your picture. Still just the solid blue light and nothing else. And the HDD is removed currently.

EDIT: with the HDD installed and connected the 12v line drops down to 11.25-11.30v.
Elsewhere you indicated something about plugging in the power supply without it being connected to either the motherboard or the hard drive.

Don't do that.

A switch-mode supply, which this is, needs a proper load to function properly, and some of them can even be damaged if energized with no load connected.

With the +12V line reading a trifle low anyway, with just the motherboard connected, and then dropping that much when the hard drive is added (when the voltage regulator function of the power supply should have prevented almost all change), I'd say you have a power supply problem.

Replacing the medium size electrolytic capacitors (the ones near the heat sinks) with the proper type replacements (same uF rating, same working voltage or slightly higher if absolutely necessary, low Equivalent Series Resistance, or ESR, and rated at 105 degrees Celsius/Centigrade) will probably fix the problem.


The later pages of this thread

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=473394

have capacitor parts lists for the 3 different S3 platform power supply models.

When removing a Series 3 platform power supply circuit board (and maybe some S2 boards as well), do not overlook the screw that goes into the top of the AC input jack from the outside of the back panel. It's small, dark, and easily not noticed.

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Old 05-28-2015, 02:59 AM   #27
chrishicks
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I want to thank you both for helping me with this. I really appreciate it. Now I skimmed through the link posted above and found:

https://www.mouser.com/ProjectManage...sID=9f86a13d07

I need to do more than 1 power supply eventually(I'll have to see how it goes on the first one though) so would the list in that link be fine? I could easily repair 3 power supplies that I have right now(the 2 being talked about in this thread as well as a dead one I replaced out a year ago) and that list appears to be exact for 3 units. I'm thinking it's better to get everything in one shot even if I don't actually get to repairing all of them at the same time just because I'd hate to have the parts go OOS for a year or something.

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Old 05-28-2015, 07:44 AM   #28
timhbtr53
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That's one of my orders

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrishicks View Post
I want to thank you both for helping me with this. I really appreciate it. Now I skimmed through the link posted above and found:

https://www.mouser.com/ProjectManage...sID=9f86a13d07

I need to do more than 1 power supply eventually(I'll have to see how it goes on the first one though) so would the list in that link be fine? I could easily repair 3 power supplies that I have right now(the 2 being talked about in this thread as well as a dead one I replaced out a year ago) and that list appears to be exact for 3 units. I'm thinking it's better to get everything in one shot even if I don't actually get to repairing all of them at the same time just because I'd hate to have the parts go OOS for a year or something.
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I just looked and when I saw Tim's stock!!! That why we use this board I put the cap numbers on the order "c701"..... I think you will be ok after a recap job but like David said if you run the supply not plugged in the board you can do damage to the supply. And make sure you take the power cord out of the room. Your life it worth more then a power supply.

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