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Old 11-05-2013, 01:54 PM   #1
Dr.Gee
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Boardwalk empire question- spoiler

Why did rothstein sell Doyle's life insurance policy to nucky for 20% its value,when he could have had him killed and kept all of it?
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Old 11-05-2013, 02:26 PM   #2
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I think he wanted money right away for gambling or gambling debt.
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Old 11-05-2013, 02:28 PM   #3
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Whomever is the beneficiary of the policy, especially in this situation, is going to face scrutiny from the insurance company. Rothstein would enjoy a (somewhat) suspicion free payout, whereas Nucky would get more cash but be under the microscope.

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Old 11-05-2013, 03:13 PM   #4
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But the insurance company is Rothstein's. You'd think he could push through the paperwork or something.
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Old 11-05-2013, 03:14 PM   #5
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But they stated that Rothstein owned the insurance company, which makes the whole situation hard to understand. How does getting a payout from a company he owns help him? If it is just a liquidity issue, then I guess it could help him in the short term. But in the long term, why did he bother with the policies, since any payout to him is a loss to the insurance company, which he owns. Makes it a wash.
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Old 11-05-2013, 03:18 PM   #6
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But they stated that Rothstein owned the insurance company, which makes the whole situation hard to understand.
Indeed.did he plan to sell it from the beginning knowing he would be scrutinized?
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Old 11-05-2013, 03:19 PM   #7
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But they stated that Rothstein owned the insurance company, which makes the whole situation hard to understand. How does getting a payout from a company he owns help him? If it is just a liquidity issue, then I guess it could help him in the short term. But in the long term, why did he bother with the policies, since any payout to him is a loss to the insurance company, which he owns. Makes it a wash.
Insurance companies are insured,aren't they?or is that just for disasters where they have massive widespread payouts?
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Old 11-05-2013, 03:29 PM   #8
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Insurance companies are insured,aren't they?or is that just for disasters where they have massive widespread payouts?
Not sure if this is a joke, but I'll answer seriously.

No, insurance companies are not insured, at least not for the same risks that they insure. It would not make any sense. The insurance companies charge a premium for taking the risk themselves. They try to spread out the risk by insuring a diverse pool of customers, but ultimately, the insurance companies are at risk.
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Old 11-05-2013, 03:45 PM   #9
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Insurance companies are insured,aren't they?or is that just for disasters where they have massive widespread payouts?
Insurance companies do purchase reinsurance from other insurance companied, called reinsurers. I think it's primarily used to protect against catastrophic losses, though.
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Old 11-05-2013, 03:48 PM   #10
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Not sure if this is a joke, but I'll answer seriously.

No, insurance companies are not insured, at least not for the same risks that they insure. It would not make any sense. The insurance companies charge a premium for taking the risk themselves. They try to spread out the risk by insuring a diverse pool of customers, but ultimately, the insurance companies are at risk.
No. Insurance companies spread the risk through reinsurance through insurance syndicates, the best known of which is Lloyds of London. A lot of those took a bath on 9/11.

It's the same as bookies laying off the risk of big bets with other bookies.

What doesn't make a lot of sense is Rothstein falling for the huckster selling the bogus investment, especially after Margaret blew the scam.

The FBI guys did laugh in amazement about Rothstein losing $200K in a single night of gambling.
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Old 11-05-2013, 04:18 PM   #11
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This is getting almost as difficult as following Game of thrones.i liked the complexity level of deadwood.
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Old 11-05-2013, 05:04 PM   #12
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Insurance companies spread the risk through reinsurance through insurance syndicates, the best known of which is Lloyds of London.
Of course, and who do you think insures Lloyds?

Someone must bear the risk. The risk can get shifted around and spread among various parties, but ultimately the risk is borne by insurance companies.

If Rothstein's insurance company writes a bad life insurance policy (i.e., the risk of death is much higher than accounted for by the too-low premium), then either Rothstein's company takes a loss, or else the company must con someone else into taking the loss. While it is possible that a life insurance company could go to a reinsurer and con them into buying a bunch of bad life insurance policies, I doubt that is what is going on here.

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Old 11-05-2013, 05:10 PM   #13
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Of course, and who do you think insures Lloyds?

Someone must bear the risk. The risk can get shifted around and spread among various parties, but ultimately the risk is borne by insurance companies...
The risk at Lloyds is borne by "lucky, exclusive" investors who buy in and pledge their entire net worth. There were mere secretaries at Lloyds who lost everything on 9/11 - EVERYTHING over and beyond the investment they were let in on.
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Old 11-06-2013, 09:30 AM   #14
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No. Insurance companies spread the risk through reinsurance through insurance syndicates, the best known of which is Lloyds of London. A lot of those took a bath on 9/11.

It's the same as bookies laying off the risk of big bets with other bookies.

What doesn't make a lot of sense is Rothstein falling for the huckster selling the bogus investment, especially after Margaret blew the scam.

The FBI guys did laugh in amazement about Rothstein losing $200K in a single night of gambling.
Isn't this kind of what happened to AIG during the 2008 Financial crash? They insured the MBS, but they weren't properly protected if they couldn't pay out on the MBS so they almost (should have) bit it?
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Old 11-06-2013, 10:49 PM   #15
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Not sure if this is a joke, but I'll answer seriously.

No, insurance companies are not insured, at least not for the same risks that they insure. It would not make any sense. The insurance companies charge a premium for taking the risk themselves. They try to spread out the risk by insuring a diverse pool of customers, but ultimately, the insurance companies are at risk.
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Of course, and who do you think insures Lloyds?

Someone must bear the risk. The risk can get shifted around and spread among various parties, but ultimately the risk is borne by insurance companies.
You make it sound as if insurance companies are just insuring other insurance companies, and ultimately carry their own risk. Like it's one big circle (house of cards?). You are wrong.

There are very specific companies that reinsure primary insurance companies. They are called "Re's", and that's their business. Warren Buffett is big in the RE business.


Having said all this, I'm still not sure I understand the whole Rothstein/Nucky/Mickey scheme.
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Old 11-06-2013, 10:58 PM   #16
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Isn't this kind of what happened to AIG during the 2008 Financial crash? They insured the MBS, but they weren't properly protected if they couldn't pay out on the MBS so they almost (should have) bit it?
The other way around here.

What that division of AIG did was insure CDOs while having no reserves to cover what they wrote.

They grinned at collecting the premiums while just knowing that mortgages never go bad. You know, the rating agencies rated those at being as safe as US Treasury bills....etc.

In this case it would be like Rothstein had his $50,000 policy but the insurance company that wrote it had only $2500 to pay off because it was a sure thing Doyle was going to live forever.
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Old 11-07-2013, 12:49 AM   #17
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You make it sound as if insurance companies are just insuring other insurance companies, and ultimately carry their own risk. Like it's one big circle (house of cards?). You are wrong.

There are very specific companies that reinsure primary insurance companies. They are called "Re's", and that's their business. Warren Buffett is big in the
You make it sound like just because you put Re- in front of -insurance, that the result is not a insurance company. You are wrong.

Just cover your eyes and hum and the risk all disappears!

Bottom line is that insurance companies bear the risk, as I said. They may transfer some of it to private investors or other insurance companies, but if they write bad policies, then they are going to have a hard time doing that. And we are talking life insurance here.

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Old 11-11-2013, 09:51 AM   #18
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Ok.this weeks question .
Why was Knox present when Eli stopped the truck convoy and why didn't he confiscate the booze and heroin?
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Old 11-11-2013, 10:07 AM   #19
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Ok.this weeks question .
Why was Knox present when Eli stopped the truck convoy and why didn't he confiscate the booze and heroin?
Eli gave him the tip to make good, maybe with Nucky's blessing.

More to the point: Why was Nucky not phased that Eli was so close to and escorting the the fed..and it's still supposed to be a secret that Eli is a rat?
The fed can just put a hole in a guy's head and be fine.

The were a lot of strange holes in this one. Narcisse is Marchetti's partner, so let's deal.

I say that Chalky uses the Harrow option.

It was great to see Meyer squirm and have his BS (Boy Scout) fail.

I continue to love how they play Rothstein and Meyer.

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Old 11-11-2013, 10:18 AM   #20
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One thing I'm beginning not to like is the randomish interaction of characters.seems too contrived.richard now working the onxy,margret working with rothstein,etc.

Back to last weeks question.if Roth owned the insurance policy,wouldn't he be 500k ahead if he just ripped it up?doesnt the cash have to be held somewhere if payout is needed?rip it up and take the cash from the company.and what was the point of having them sign to prevent a double cross if he would payout the cash?just the threat of Doyle knowing its out there ?
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Old 11-12-2013, 09:26 AM   #21
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I'll admit it, I'm pretty much lost this season.
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Old 11-12-2013, 12:29 PM   #22
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Eli gave him the tip to make good, maybe with Nucky's blessing.

More to the point: Why was Nucky not phased that Eli was so close to and escorting the the fed..and it's still supposed to be a secret that Eli is a rat?
The fed can just put a hole in a guy's head and be fine.
Nukky TOLD Eli to take the feds. Eli even objected to it but was dismissed by Nukky.

It's also been made clear that Eli is playing the feds and feeding them useless info.
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Old 11-12-2013, 12:33 PM   #23
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One thing I'm beginning not to like is the randomish interaction of characters.seems too contrived.richard now working the onxy,margret working with rothstein,etc.

Back to last weeks question.if Roth owned the insurance policy,wouldn't he be 500k ahead if he just ripped it up?doesnt the cash have to be held somewhere if payout is needed?rip it up and take the cash from the company.and what was the point of having them sign to prevent a double cross if he would payout the cash?just the threat of Doyle knowing its out there ?
I don't understand why so many people are confused. I OWN Berkshire Hathaway, too (). It makes no difference to my bottom line if they pay up on a policy. I don't think Rothstein is the sole owner of the company. Even if he were the sole owner, I'm sure he has it setup as a corporation of some sort so the profits and losses do not go directly to him.
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Old 11-12-2013, 01:39 PM   #24
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Even if he were the sole owner, I'm sure he has it setup as a corporation of some sort so the profits and losses do not go directly to him.
That's hilarious.
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