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Old 10-24-2013, 12:40 PM   #121
davezatz
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Both publicly and privately I've heard Android in 2013 on multiple occasions, starting in 2012. Jason Nealis of RCN was also banking on 2013 based on his collaboration with TiVo and was upset when it was pushed to 2014. But it is what it is.
I went through some of my Twitter exchanges with Jason... as of August he was still thinking late fall. After his September pow-wow with TiVo, he said Q1 2014. Q4 2013 is what I'd been hearing for several months as well, until his tweet with the revised schedule. Q1 and Spring do overlap, but somehow it now seems further out with today's guidance.

https://twitter.com/jnealis/status/370363709413416960
https://twitter.com/jnealis/status/380325716292042752
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Old 10-24-2013, 12:49 PM   #122
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You are able to stream HBO? That is interesting, others are reporting that channels with the CCI Byte set are restricted.
Actually, I just tried it again and was unable to stream the main HBO-HD channel program currently on the air (a documentary called Life According to Sam). I received a copyright message. I am still able to stream the show currently on the main SHO-HD channel (a movie called DeadHeads). I then tried HBO2-HD and was able to stream the movie Argo and was also able to stream the movie Match Point on HBO-Signature HD. So very weird results.

And yes, it does start a recording for each stream so I don't see how that is different than watching previously recorded shows?

I am on Xfinity in CO for what that is worth.
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Old 10-24-2013, 12:57 PM   #123
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Actually, I just tried it again and was unable to stream the main HBO-HD channel program currently on the air (a documentary called Life According to Sam). I received a copyright message. I am still able to stream the show currently on the main SHO-HD channel (a movie called DeadHeads). I then tried HBO2-HD and was able to stream the movie Argo and was also able to stream the movie Match Point on HBO-Signature HD. So very weird results.

And yes, it does start a recording for each stream so I don't see how that is different than watching previously recorded shows?

I am on Xfinity in CO for what that is worth.
It sounds like they are differentiating between Place Shifting and Time Shifting as it relates to making / using a copy.

I do not know enough about to CCI language to understand if the rules could be interpreted in this way. Is there existing case law? Was this a directive to TiVo? Is TiVo being overly cautious?

We just do not know at this point.
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:11 PM   #124
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I think the blame goes to Android on this one... The big players haven't agreed upon an adaptive secure video standard. Apple uses HLS and Android has been very slow in implementing a working HLS solution. From what I have been reading the Android version is still buggy even under 4.2 - but I do hope they get it figured out soon.

TiVo isn't the only one suffering from the pissing match between these two mega companies.
If TiVo streaming to Android is going to require Android 4.2 or even something newer then there really isn't allot of rush to get Android support up and running as the vast majority of Android devices are running something older than 4.2.
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:16 PM   #125
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If TiVo streaming to Android is going to require Android 4.2 or even something newer then there really isn't allot of rush to get Android support up and running as the vast majority of Android devices are running something older than 4.2.
We do not KNOW that it will require 4.2, however Aereo finally released their streaming Android app and it does require 4.2 presumably for that reason.

http://www.engadget.com/2013/10/22/aereo-android-app/
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:16 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by atmuscarella View Post
If TiVo streaming to Android is going to require Android 4.2 or even something newer then there really isn't allot of rush to get Android support up and running as the vast majority of Android devices are running something older than 4.2.
At CES, I was told there was stuff in 4.0 (and revs above) they needed... Can't tell you if that's changed, but it wouldn't surprise me if they switched the team and approach up.

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I do not know enough about to CCI language to understand if the rules could be interpreted in this way. Is there existing case law? Was this a directive to TiVo? Is TiVo being overly cautious? We just do not know at this point.
Yeah, not clear if this is a CableLabs mandate for CableCARD certification or TiVo being conservative to limit blowback. From their support site, for both live and recorded content outside the home:

http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2762/

Quote:
Content with copy protection cannot be streamed using the Out-of-Home Streaming feature. Only non-copy-protected ("0x00—Copy freely") can be viewed. See Questions about copy protection for more information about copy-protection.

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Old 10-24-2013, 01:39 PM   #127
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Content with copy protection cannot be streamed using the Out-of-Home Streaming feature. Only non-copy-protected ("0x00ŚCopy freely") can be viewed. See Questions about copy protection for more information about copy-protection.
This makes the stream function useless for those of us with TWC.

Makes no sense for me to upgrade from my two Premieres.

Slingbox is the better option.
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:40 PM   #128
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The fact that you can stream CCI protected content live seems like a bug. I wouldn't be surprised if it's "fixed" via an update very soon.

Personally I'm a little disappointed that they restrict OOH streaming by the CCI byte, but not surprised. There are no rules in the CableCARD spec about OOH streaming, nor is there a precedent, so TiVo probably had to take a conservative approach to prevent from being sued. Hopefully they are at least in talks with CableLabs about possibly opening this up in the future.
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:46 PM   #129
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This makes the stream function useless for those of us with TWC.

Makes no sense for me to upgrade from my two Premieres.

Slingbox is the better option.
TWC could screw over Slingbox users too if they really wanted. If they started requiring the use of boxes that only have HDMI ports then the analog hole would be closed and you'd be in the same boat. While some Slingboxes do have HDMI inputs they can not sling channels which have HDCP enabled, and when a channel has the CCI byte set the HDMI output will have HDCP, so you'd be in the same boat.
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:50 PM   #130
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TWC could screw over Slingbox users too if they really wanted. If they started requiring the use of boxes that only have HDMI ports then the analog hole would be closed and you'd be in the same boat. While some Slingboxes do have HDMI inputs they can not sling channels which have HDCP enabled, and when a channel has the CCI byte set the HDMI output will have HDCP, so you'd be in the same boat.
Eh, that's trivial to get around. Many HDMI hubs do the handshake and then there are widgets that do the handshake and convert from digital to analog. More effort, more smarts, and more money required, but entirely doable. And good luck TWC or anyone else replacing all boxes with HDMI-only output. There's a lot of folks still who don't have compatible TVs...
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:53 PM   #131
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I think they could also use Macrovision on the analog outputs to prevent Slingboxes from working correctly.

Of course there are workarounds, but it would still make the product less appealing to the average consumer.
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:54 PM   #132
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Both publicly and privately I've heard Android in 2013 on multiple occasions, starting in 2012. Jason Nealis of RCN was also banking on 2013 based on his collaboration with TiVo and was upset when it was pushed to 2014. But it is what it is.
Kind of like the DirecTivo announcements back in 2008...
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Old 10-24-2013, 02:03 PM   #133
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TWC could screw over Slingbox users too if they really wanted. If they started requiring the use of boxes that only have HDMI ports then the analog hole would be closed and you'd be in the same boat. While some Slingboxes do have HDMI inputs they can not sling channels which have HDCP enabled, and when a channel has the CCI byte set the HDMI output will have HDCP, so you'd be in the same boat.
The whole thing is such a double standard now that TWC allow their TV apps to stream out-of-home.
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Old 10-24-2013, 02:07 PM   #134
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Obviously they do this on purpose. They want to make it as inconvenient as possible for their customers to use any device they don't rent directly from them.
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Old 10-24-2013, 03:38 PM   #135
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No support for Android OS despite having more than half the mobile market share? Weak sauce TiVo....
Old news...
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Old 10-24-2013, 04:14 PM   #136
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Old news...
But especially relevant today.
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Old 10-24-2013, 04:31 PM   #137
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Should I be able to stream from my other boxes? When I choose another box I get an error that the box is not configured for streaming.

I can stream from those boxes while on my home network.
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Old 10-24-2013, 04:35 PM   #138
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Should I be able to stream from my other boxes? When I choose another box I get an error that the box is not configured for streaming.
They probably have to be running 20.3.7 software to work, so if they are series 4 units without 20.3.7 software that might explain it.
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Old 10-24-2013, 04:38 PM   #139
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Hopefully you are right and for now still waiting for the fall update on my other boxes.
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Old 10-24-2013, 04:58 PM   #140
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I can stream on 4G with Jailbroken iPhone 4S

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Really? I've been reading that out-of-home streaming/downloading have required a WiFi connection

I tried to stream over cellular on my 5S iPhone, no go. I tried my 4S, Jailbroken, with My3G (tricks the app into thinking it's on WiFi) and it works.

I'm on Cox cable and don't know what is CCI Byte protected so..."How it's Made, Pawn stars, Breaking Bad all work.
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Old 10-24-2013, 07:10 PM   #141
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Someone else mentioned that you can download over LTE and then start watching the show after it's buffered a few minutes. Not quite as flexible as streaming, but a good alternative for when you don't have access to wifi.
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Old 10-24-2013, 07:21 PM   #142
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My JB 4S with My3G will not stream over the phone system. Any tricks?

I have to use TetherMe with the 4S and hot spot to my iPad.
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Old 10-24-2013, 07:31 PM   #143
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Thanks

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Someone else mentioned that you can download over LTE and then start watching the show after it's buffered a few minutes. Not quite as flexible as streaming, but a good alternative for when you don't have access to wifi.
Thanks Dan,

I see a new thread started about it. I wish that I had a JB LTE iPhone 5, to test with. My 4S won't do LTE, but on 3G/4G, it will stream and download over cellular.
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Old 10-24-2013, 07:35 PM   #144
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Settings

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My JB 4S with My3G will not stream over the phone system. Any tricks?

I have to use TetherMe with the 4S and hot spot to my iPad.

Mike,

Go into My3G settings, then click on "Tivo" in the list. You will then see a green check mark next to it. Then hit the little blue arrow and hit the "Use Direct Flag" to turn it on.



Let me know if you get it to work.

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Old 10-24-2013, 08:02 PM   #145
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Should I be able to stream from my other boxes? When I choose another box I get an error that the box is not configured for streaming.

I can stream from those boxes while on my home network.
From:
http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2762/

Quote:
NOTE: You must complete out-of-home streaming setup separately for each TiVo device you want to use.

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Old 10-24-2013, 08:07 PM   #146
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I suspect that means you need to run setup for each IOS device you want to use. At least that is how I read it.

I can stream from my Roamio, but of course I cannot stream from my Premiere yet. I expect that after the fall update it will open up to both platforms.
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Old 10-24-2013, 08:26 PM   #147
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I tried running Setup 4 times and I can still only stream from my Roamio.

I guess like others have mentioned the fall update might solve this issue as even the instructions above only mention Roamio boxes for now.
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Old 10-24-2013, 08:31 PM   #148
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IT WILL NOT STREAM FROM YOUR PREMIERE!

That is the point I was trying to make, the Premiere itself will need and update that is supposed to be available in a few weeks.

There is nothing wrong with your setup!
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Old 10-24-2013, 10:31 PM   #149
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I suspect that means you need to run setup for each IOS device you want to use. At least that is how I read it.
Yes, that makes more sense. They want to verify a device within your home before letting you use it out of the home to help prevent possible unauthorized use.
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Old 10-24-2013, 10:59 PM   #150
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Margaret posted some good info on Twitter



IN home, the bitrate is not adaptive, it is 2.2 Mbit/sec. OUT of home it can go as low as 290 Kbit/s, and up to 1.2 Mbit/s

To do cellular streaming, Apple needs us to go as low as 64 Kbit/sec (audio-only). We'll get there next year.

If you download remotely instead of stream, "Best" is 2.2 Mbit/sec, and 1 hour of video takes about 1.1G.

"Medium" remote download is 1.2 Mbit/s and about 640M for an hour of video.

"Basic" on iPad is 800 Kbit/s, and 440M per hour of video; "Basic" on iPhone is 600 Kbit/s and 360M per hour.
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