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Old 10-12-2013, 11:15 AM   #1
rmassey
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Tivo S3 network issue

My Tivo S3 (OLED) had developed a new networking issue.
FYI, all hardware mentioned below is hardwired via cat 5 to my local network and I have a working Comcast 50+ mb connection

Symptoms:
- Xfer a program from my Tivo HD (non OLED), starts xfer then reboots
- try to connect to S3 with Android Tivo app fails to connect. Works fine to the Tivo HD.
- Netflix playback is sluggish, pixelated, non responsive, unwatchable. Playback of same program on an Oppo 93 Blu-ray, connected to the same network/switch works fine.

I think the network port may be failing. I'm tempted to buy a Tivo wireless adapter and bypass the network port on the S3 to see if this cures the problem. They run about $30 on Amazon now, so its a cheap easy fix.

Anyone else have similar network issues on an S3? Any other diag steps I can take to confirm things?
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Old 10-12-2013, 12:12 PM   #2
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Open up your TiVo and look for bulging capacitors.
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Old 10-12-2013, 07:23 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmassey View Post
My Tivo S3 (OLED) had developed a new networking issue.
FYI, all hardware mentioned below is hardwired via cat 5 to my local network and I have a working Comcast 50+ mb connection

Symptoms:
- Xfer a program from my Tivo HD (non OLED), starts xfer then reboots
- try to connect to S3 with Android Tivo app fails to connect. Works fine to the Tivo HD.
- Netflix playback is sluggish, pixelated, non responsive, unwatchable. Playback of same program on an Oppo 93 Blu-ray, connected to the same network/switch works fine.

I think the network port may be failing. I'm tempted to buy a Tivo wireless adapter and bypass the network port on the S3 to see if this cures the problem. They run about $30 on Amazon now, so its a cheap easy fix.

Anyone else have similar network issues on an S3? Any other diag steps I can take to confirm things?
Like the man said, check the power supply caps, it's a widespread S2 and S3 problem and causes all sorts of weird symptoms.

In addition, give everything on your network that doesn't leave the house a fixed IP address and adjust your router's DHCP address pool to not include any of those fixed address numbers.

Can't hurt, might help.
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Old 10-12-2013, 08:48 PM   #4
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Here's what a bulging cap looks like:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...94#post8750894
Any detectable bulge means the cap is bad.
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Old 10-12-2013, 09:25 PM   #5
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And even if there's not a bulge, a cap might be bad anyway, so checking the DC outs with a voltmeter isn't a bad idea.
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Old 10-12-2013, 10:26 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by unitron View Post
In addition, give everything on your network that doesn't leave the house a fixed IP address and adjust your router's DHCP address pool to not include any of those fixed address numbers.

Can't hurt, might help.
I'll continue to beat this dead horse, I just cannot for the life of me figure out why there's a handful of folks that swear this is the solution to networking issues, DHCP is fine for 99 44/100th of the population. I know you're giving the disclaimer, but IMO it's just spinning wheels to have folks do it.

I'm network savvy, and I have never seen the need for common devices such as a Tivo to get a static IP, all it does IMNSHO is add more overhead to the owner in needing to set them and pay attention, I have IP scope lists at work, hell if I'll make them for the house
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Old 10-13-2013, 03:45 AM   #7
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I'll continue to beat this dead horse, I just cannot for the life of me figure out why there's a handful of folks that swear this is the solution to networking issues, DHCP is fine for 99 44/100th of the population. I know you're giving the disclaimer, but IMO it's just spinning wheels to have folks do it.

I'm network savvy, and I have never seen the need for common devices such as a Tivo to get a static IP, all it does IMNSHO is add more overhead to the owner in needing to set them and pay attention, I have IP scope lists at work, hell if I'll make them for the house
DHCP, like HDMI, involves a negotiation.

Bypassing them eliminates the chance of the negotiation going wrong.
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Old 10-13-2013, 11:34 AM   #8
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I don't think I would go around reassigning all the other fixed devices in the house a static IP address, but as a process of elimination, I might give the TiVo a fixed IP address outside the range of DHCP after verifying it wasn't in use by pinging the new address to be assigned. It only takes a few moments and it definitively rules that out as an issue however remote the possibility.

I don't think this is what is going on here, but towards what unitron said about negotiation, we debugged a problem related to DHCP back in the ReplatTV days. What was happening is the unit would work fine for streaming, but for remote show transfers it wouldn't work.

After doing packet sniffing, it turned out there were actually 2 DHCP requests with different session identifiers. The low-level OS did one DHCP request upon boot and the application layer did a second DHCP request.

Since the identifiers were different, some DHCP servers returned different IP addresses for the two requests. Normally that wouldn't really be a problem, just inefficient, but it turns out the Show to Show transfer feature picked up the first address but never got reset for the 2nd address. So you would think your ReplayTV had address 192.168.1.129 because that is what it used for almost all operations including unit to unit streaming, but when you assigned the port forwarding for the remote show transfer feature, it wouldn't work, because that part of the unit was still using the originally assigned 196.168.1.128 address.

This only happened on some DHCP servers. The workaround was either to assign DHCP addresses for the replay units based on direct MAC address to DHCP IP address mappings or to assign static IPs.

Last edited by sfhub : 10-13-2013 at 11:40 AM.
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Old 10-13-2013, 11:38 AM   #9
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Quote:
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DHCP, like HDMI, involves a negotiation.

Bypassing them eliminates the chance of the negotiation going wrong.
But is DHCP really that buggy? Also, bugs aside, DHCP is designed to make things work more efficiently. HDCP, the troublemaking Gestapo wing of HDMI, is designed to make sure we don't get away with anything that entertainment industry lawyers (and their legislators) don't want us to do. In a sense, HDCP is designed to cause trouble.
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Old 10-13-2013, 11:48 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dianebrat View Post
I'll continue to beat this dead horse, I just cannot for the life of me figure out why there's a handful of folks that swear this is the solution to networking issues, DHCP is fine for 99 44/100th of the population. I know you're giving the disclaimer, but IMO it's just spinning wheels to have folks do it.

I'm network savvy, and I have never seen the need for common devices such as a Tivo to get a static IP, all it does IMNSHO is add more overhead to the owner in needing to set them and pay attention, I have IP scope lists at work, hell if I'll make them for the house
One of the strongly recommended steps for troubleshooting poor Netflix performance on the Logitech Revue (Google TV) is a static IP. I admit I can't ID that as the "smoking gun" since that was just one of several steps performed.

Oh ... you said "common devices". I guess that would rule out the Revue. It's more in the "dead horse" category. Actually I get good usage out of it. You just need to reboot it every day or two since it apparently has memory leaks. Fortunately a Revue reboots in about 30 seconds, unlike Tivo's. I definitely prefer Netflix on the Revue to Netflix on my Tivo HD.
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Old 10-13-2013, 08:01 PM   #11
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But is DHCP really that buggy?
Not in my opinion, nor in the 10 sites and 6000+ PCs my group manages.
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Old 10-13-2013, 08:35 PM   #12
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Not in my opinion, nor in the 10 sites and 6000+ PCs my group manages.
Ditto here although I will admit that I assign IP addresses to my TiVo's through DHCP reservations though so I know what IP address each is at.

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Old 10-13-2013, 11:13 PM   #13
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Not in my opinion, nor in the 10 sites and 6000+ PCs my group manages.
Not to be snarky about it, but get back to me when they're managing 6,000+ TiVos.

Seriously, this isn't about PCs that get turned off at the end of the work day and turned back on the next morning, or people logging on and off the free wi-fi at a coffee shop.

I'm sure DHCP is a wonderful convenience when you've got stuff hopping on and off the network all the time, but most TiVos don't do that, and I don't see where a TiVo has anything to gain by not having a fixed IP address.
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Old 10-18-2013, 01:35 PM   #14
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Thanks for the insights guys. I'll add the power supply caps to my TODO list.

I'm doubtful a static IP will fix things, as I have been using DHCP for years and it's just acting up now. I have no problem doing the cap job on the S3.
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