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Old 03-20-2014, 08:56 AM   #1
unitron
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WD20EURX $90 'til 26th

The WD20EURX is the successor to the WD20EURS, and some people around here have reported success with it.

newegg's got a promo code good through the 26th (of March, 2014) that brings the price down to $89.99 and the slow method of shipping is free.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822236603


The promo code is

EMCPGHP42
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Old 03-20-2014, 09:00 PM   #2
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I guess the "20" implies that, but just so people don't have to check, this is a 2 TB drive. (Since the Roamio can take a 3 TB drive, when I upgrade, I might as well go for the max.)
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Old 03-21-2014, 03:39 PM   #3
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I saw in another thread that park was disabled in newer AV drives, but is touted in description for this one, is it active or not?
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Old 03-21-2014, 10:35 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannonz View Post
I saw in another thread that park was disabled in newer AV drives, but is touted in description for this one, is it active or not?
Unfortunately the only way to be absolutely sure with any particular drive (not model, but single piece of actual hardware) is to hook it up to a PC motherboard and run

wdidle3.exe /S

EDIT:

The line above, I am informed and have no reason to doubt, is incorrect in that S in that context actually stands for "Set", and what's needed is "R", which in that context means "Report".

I have successfully used wdidle3.exe before, both to check Intellipark status and to disable it (or set the timer period to 300 seconds, which amounts to the same thing), I just haven't done it recently enough for my memory to be trustworthy.

END EDIT:

to learn the status.

However, anecdotal evidence seems to indicate that the Caviar Green subset which is WD's A/V line have been, in recent months, coming from the factory with Intellipark not enabled, although it's available if someone wants to enable it.

I suspect that the write-up at newegg was a "covers the entire line" generic thing.
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Last edited by unitron : 03-23-2014 at 03:40 AM.
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Old 03-22-2014, 01:14 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
Unfortunately the only way to be absolutely sure with any particular drive (not model, but single piece of actual hardware) is to hook it up to a PC motherboard and run

wdidle3.exe /[incorrect letter S was here]

to learn the status.

However, anecdotal evidence seems to indicate that the Caviar Green subset which is WD's A/V line have been, in recent months, coming from the factory with Intellipark not enabled, although it's available if someone wants to enable it.

I suspect that the write-up at newegg was a "covers the entire line" generic thing.
It's actually /R for (R)eport setting.

/S is for (S)et (in seconds).

/D if for (D)isable.

I prefer to go with wdidle3 /S300 (5 minutes, the highest value), which will still never park the heads while in a TiVo, and verify the setting with /R.

By default, if factory enabled, it is set to something like 8 or 12 seconds (whatever the lowest possible setting for the drive is).

As assuring as disabling it completely seems, you need to remember that none of the drives the wdidle3 utility says it is supported for use on, are any drive anyone would want to install in a TiVo, and it's a very short list. I feel I'm less likely to have unexpected issues by changing the timer to the maximum time, rather than disabling it, using a tool to change the setting on drives it does not "officially" support.

Then there's the newly found (for me) fact, that should you use the utility on a drive that supports Advanced Power Management (APM), the APM can still park the drive to death in a computer, as well as having potential for causing the same soft, menu-reboot, startup hang issue in a TiVo. Note, I said "potential".

WD now has a new tool for addressing parking frequency, specifically for Red NAS drives (which wdidle3 will report the idle timer is disabled from the factory on). It is possible wdidle3 reports disabled, as opposed to giving an error, so a new tool was necessary. Another possibility is that wdidle3 is giving a true reading on the idle timer, but the APM support has taken on the leading role in managing parking, leading to the same old park-until-it-dies behavior, and could cause issues in a TiVo.

I'm going to be pulling a WD Red NAS from a Roamio soon, and will experiment with both old and new utilities, as well as taking some risks and trying the Red NAS drive tool on the drives people typically choose for use in TiVos.

I'm also finding that the WD Blue and WD Scorpio Blue notebook drives continue to park to death with wdidle /D. The APM just takes over and does the same thing. So, I'll likely be trying out the new WD tool on those as well.

I'll likely start a new thread specifically addressing how APM can render the idle timer disable setting irrelevant.
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Old 03-22-2014, 02:49 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
It's actually /R for (R)eport setting.

/S is for (S)et (in seconds).

/D if for (D)isable.

I prefer to go with wdidle3 /S300 (5 minutes, the highest value), which will still never park the heads while in a TiVo, and verify the setting with /R.

By default, if factory enabled, it is set to something like 8 or 12 seconds (whatever the lowest possible setting for the drive is).

As assuring as disabling it completely seems, you need to remember that none of the drives the wdidle3 utility says it is supported for use on, are any drive anyone would want to install in a TiVo, and it's a very short list. I feel I'm less likely to have unexpected issues by changing the timer to the maximum time, rather than disabling it, using a tool to change the setting on drives it does not "officially" support.

Then there's the newly found (for me) fact, that should you use the utility on a drive that supports Advanced Power Management (APM), the APM can still park the drive to death in a computer, as well as having potential for causing the same soft, menu-reboot, startup hang issue in a TiVo. Note, I said "potential".

WD now has a new tool for addressing parking frequency, specifically for Red NAS drives (which wdidle3 will report the idle timer is disabled from the factory on). It is possible wdidle3 reports disabled, as opposed to giving an error, so a new tool was necessary. Another possibility is that wdidle3 is giving a true reading on the idle timer, but the APM support has taken on the leading role in managing parking, leading to the same old park-until-it-dies behavior, and could cause issues in a TiVo.

I'm going to be pulling a WD Red NAS from a Roamio soon, and will experiment with both old and new utilities, as well as taking some risks and trying the Red NAS drive tool on the drives people typically choose for use in TiVos.

I'm also finding that the WD Blue and WD Scorpio Blue notebook drives continue to park to death with wdidle /D. The APM just takes over and does the same thing. So, I'll likely be trying out the new WD tool on those as well.

I'll likely start a new thread specifically addressing how APM can render the idle timer disable setting irrelevant.

That's what I get for relying on memory instead of booting up my (currently not working properly) TiVo wrangling PC and actually running the program.
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Old 03-22-2014, 10:42 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
That's what I get for relying on memory instead of booting up my (currently not working properly) TiVo wrangling PC and actually running the program.
I made sure to quote your post in a way that would allow you to fix the error, in a way to not confuse people, by quoting an edited version of your post. Hint: You could correct your post to avoid confusing others, without making mine confusing to others.

We're all human. FWIW, you can boot with any PC to use /? on bootable media with the tool on it, to get the options listed for you, and not cause any harm, so long as you pay attention to the options, and not use anything but the /R option to report the state of any drives that can report the status.

In short, /? only gives help on using the tool, /R only scans drives and reports (if it can), and neither will modify anything.
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Old 03-26-2014, 09:06 PM   #8
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Was looking around Amazon, and the price/TB is better for these 3 TB drives:
ST3000DM001 $109.40
WD30EZRX $107.99
(I realize it's even better for 4 TB drives, but presumably these 3 TB drives will work with the 'just plug it in a Roamio and it works').
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Old 03-26-2014, 09:30 PM   #9
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I don't think either of those are AV drives just regular desktop drives.

My experience with a Seagate non-AV drive in a TiVo was that it was noisy enough to aggravate my wife even though it was inside a cabinet.

I replaced it with WD AV drive and all was well.
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Old 03-26-2014, 11:19 PM   #10
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My usual comments on AV and non-AV drives, for TiVo use:

While some will inevitably disagree, and start talking about "24/7 ratings", "AV rating" and other features present in AV drives, the fact remains that no TiVo has ever used the ATA Streaming Command Set Extensions (The "AV" part of the drive firmware). The TiVo Roamio is no exception.

When the host device doesn't use, and/or doesn't support, the AV features of the drive, it works exactly the same as a non-AV drive, writing the data as regular data, using the regular data methods, and with regular data error-handling techniques. TiVos don't even come close to saturating the SATA-1 mode the TiVo sets as the communication speed, regardless of what the drive supports, and platter-drives can't even saturate SATA-1, in single drive, non-RAID configurations.

I went with WD Red NAS drives, for their 24/7 "rating", warranty length, and better MBTF ratings over both basic desktop, and "green" drives.

As an unnecessary bonus, WD Red NAS drives support the very same streaming AV features as the actual AV-GP drives.

They also have the same power and thermal profiles, as in green drives, in some cases even better.

A bonus I like, is that should I ever pull them from the TiVos, they perform good enough for general use (and better than AV or AV-GP drives), and the spares I bought can be used for other things.

I've compared Red NAS to AV-GP, when it comes to noise, and have sometimes felt the AV-GP drives are louder when very busy. Otherwise, I feel any differences are minute enough that I can not detect them. Some have reported the same, while some swear that AV-GP is quieter.

While you can turn off the AAM (auto acoustic management) on an AV-GP drive to increase performance on non-TiVo hosts, the AAM on Red NAS (as well as an increasing number of other drives these days), is not adjustable.

It's worth noting that regular (non AV) drives tend to have at least a 1yr shorter warranty. If spending the extra, just for the longer warranty, is the driving reason for avoiding non-AV drives, I can't disagree with that logic.
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Old 03-26-2014, 11:24 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigK View Post
I don't think either of those are AV drives just regular desktop drives.

My experience with a Seagate non-AV drive in a TiVo was that it was noisy enough to aggravate my wife even though it was inside a cabinet.

I replaced it with WD AV drive and all was well.
It would be helpful if you could specify more about the drive that you found unacceptable, rather than just "Seagate non-AV" (for future viewers of your post).

I'm also curious if you checked and/or adjusted the AAM (auto acoustic management) setting, if applicable.

If it was a 7200RPM drive, I have no doubts that it could be too loud, and no amount of tweaking could fix the noise. Often, it's subjective (in the ear of the beholder). Some have a lot lower tolerance to drive noise, while some can tune it out, with no effort.

While some still use 7200RPM drives, and they work, I'd never recommend them for TiVo use. There's nothing to gain, and so many potential downsides.
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Old 03-27-2014, 06:01 AM   #12
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FWIW, I have four ST2000DM001 drives in my PC and five ST4000DM000 drives in my Drobo. They run cool and quiet as the grave except for a noticeable click at powerup (the 4TB Red in my Premiere does the same thing). I can't tell them from WD AV drives except for the label.
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Old 03-27-2014, 08:34 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by ggieseke View Post
FWIW, I have four ST2000DM001 drives in my PC and five ST4000DM000 drives in my Drobo. They run cool and quiet as the grave except for a noticeable click at powerup (the 4TB Red in my Premiere does the same thing). I can't tell them from WD AV drives except for the label.
I nearly forgot about the Seagate ST2000DM001 (for TiVo use). The "formerly known as Barracuda" (what Seagate's web site calls them) drives, that are 7200 RPM and are still touted as being "green" by Seagate.

I have two as well (which you know already), which are running on two PCs (guts on a workbench). They do tend to make that same loud "click" sound any time they aren't under heavy use, which I assume to be Seagate's version of "Intellipark" aka "Idle Timer timeout head park" on WD drives. The platters remain spinning after the loud clicks (the sound of which is unnerving to me).

While at least one other forum member reported those work just fine, I worry about the spin-up current draw with base model Roamios, with wall-wart power supplies, which is what I have. My wall-warts are uncomfortably hot after upping mine to 3TB 5400 RPM drives. Other than a concern I can't prove to be of concern, I can't say it's a bad choice. But, I wouldn't recommend any 7200 RPM drive for TiVo use (which doesn't mean they won't work), that's just me.

I was on the fence, since I had them already. I decided to save them for PC use, and not waste the extra RPMs by using them for TiVos (or the other way of looking at it is that I didn't want to run 5400 RPM AV-GP drives, or GP drives, as Windows boot, system, and application drives.

Maybe you got a different batch than I did, but along with that loud click, which isn't limited to spin-up on mine, I consider them to be the loudest drives that I've had on the bench (and all my drives have been there).

They also won't work in my StarTech USB 3.0 drive docks. Even though the power-bricks for the docks are huge and have more-than-adequate ratings, those drives would just endlessly start spinning up, then abort and try again.

I have yet to find a WD drive (of the kind you'd ever think to put in a TiVo), that would replicate that. That was also part of my hesitation to use them in a TiVo, and why they went to a PC.

They have been more than adequate for my PC needs, and I'm glad I used them for PC use. Being as impressed as I am with those Seagates for PC use, I don't think I could ever justify dooming them to being throttled in a TiVo, in my case anyway.

Just another 2 cents, to share what I know (or my experience with) the Seagate ST2000DM001 drives.

Looking back at your post again, it doesn't look like you were necessarily endorsing them for TiVo use, but maybe this post will be of use to somebody down the road...
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