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Old 04-11-2015, 09:36 PM   #1
SeanC
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Daredevil: S01E11: The Path of the Righteous

I looked but the one I wanted, this one didn't appear to exist so I made it.

Holy crap, that's how you end an episode!

I totally didn't think anyone was gonna get shot.

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Old 04-12-2015, 05:14 AM   #2
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They definitely got me with that one, wow. Might end up being one of those unforgettable tv moments, the thing people talk about when they talk about a series.

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Old 04-12-2015, 03:03 PM   #3
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The fact that that happened, when it never ever happens, is remarkable.

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Old 04-12-2015, 06:42 PM   #4
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I keep saying "this will be the last one; I'll finish tomorrow."

But after THIS "last one," I know there's no way there will be anything left for tomorrow.

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Old 04-13-2015, 02:29 PM   #5
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The fact that that happened, when it never ever happens, is remarkable.
This. For once when the audience yelled at a character, she actually listened...

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Old 04-14-2015, 07:32 PM   #6
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Go Karen!

Man, I HATE that I have to break for dinner now.

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Old 04-16-2015, 12:47 PM   #7
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Whoa! Didn't see *that* coming.

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Old 04-21-2015, 05:32 PM   #8
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I keep saying "this will be the last one; I'll finish tomorrow."

But after THIS "last one," I know there's no way there will be anything left for tomorrow.
Was doing one a day. Finishing tonight.

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Old 04-22-2015, 06:37 AM   #9
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Bye Wesley!

Really didn't like that guy and go Karen!

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Old 04-22-2015, 11:35 AM   #10
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Karen Ann Woll has ridiculously blue eyes.

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Old 04-22-2015, 11:41 AM   #11
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Karen Ann Woll has ridiculously blue eyes.
FWIW, her name is Deborah Ann Woll.

It's very nice to see her without the pale makeup, red eyes, and fangs. Now she needs to work on her acting chops so she can play a character without reminding viewers of who she's been in the past. Every time I saw/heard her on screen I saw/heard Jessica Hamby, not Karen Page.

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Old 04-22-2015, 11:51 AM   #12
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Ah, thanks.

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Old 05-10-2015, 10:50 PM   #13
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Oookkkkaaaaayyyy.

I didn't see that coming either.
I must say, I'm liking this version of Karen Page much better than Frank Miller's version.

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Old 05-11-2015, 01:36 PM   #14
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What, you don't like addicted hookers betraying our man in the mask?

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Old 05-11-2015, 05:42 PM   #15
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Miller having Karen Page
Spoiler:
become a porn actress drug addict who sold Matt's secret identity for a fix never sat well with me.

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Old 05-11-2015, 05:56 PM   #16
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Miller having Karen Page become a porn actress drug addict who sold Matt's secret identity for a fix never sat well with me.
I think they hinted that she had been a drug addicted porn actress.

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Old 05-11-2015, 07:12 PM   #17
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I agree that they've hinted at something dark in her past but what that is, is still up in the air at this point (not having seen the last two epsodes yet).
Spoiler:

If she was a porn actress and/or is a recovering addict, that's a little different than what Miller did.

Quite honestly, having Karen sell out Matt for a fix was more jarring than Hank Pym beating his wife.
From what I had read about her character, it seemed extremely out of character.

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Old 05-11-2015, 10:43 PM   #18
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Quite honestly, having Karen sell out Matt for a fix was more jarring than Hank Pym beating his wife.
From what I had read about her character, it seemed extremely out of character.
I hadn't heard of Karen Page before reading "Born Again", so it didn't bother me. As I understood it, she'd been absent from Daredevil pages for nearly 15 years.

On a broader topic, a while back I got the idea that somewhere in the 2000s comic writers and editors abandoned the idea of long-time readers. Seems to me they now write for a reader lifecycle of 4-5 years, and freely slash and burn accordingly. The readership who actually stays for decades and cares about continuity over that span is vanishingly small, so there's little business gain in slaving over it.

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Old 05-12-2015, 06:48 AM   #19
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From what I had read about her character, it seemed extremely out of character.
If you've known heroin addicts, you know how desperate they can become. Whether or not it is out of character is debatable. I imagine it feels like survival.

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Old 05-14-2015, 09:28 PM   #20
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Spoiler:
If you've known heroin addicts, you know how desperate they can become. Whether or not it is out of character is debatable. I imagine it feels like survival.
My objection would be
Spoiler:
that it seemed out of character for Karen to start acting in porn and turn to drugs.
In spite of the "casting couch" trope, it's actually fairly rare for a (somewhat) successful legitimate actress to start doing hardcore porn.
Angelique Pettyjohn and Teri Weigel not withstanding.

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Old 05-14-2015, 11:26 PM   #21
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My objection would be
Spoiler:
that it seemed out of character for Karen to start acting in porn and turn to drugs.
In spite of the "casting couch" trope, it's actually fairly rare for a (somewhat) successful legitimate actress to start doing hardcore porn.
Angelique Pettyjohn and Teri Weigel not withstanding.
Well,

Spoiler:
I never knew her from the earlier comics, but I didn't think it unlikely. The text clearly states that the parts got worse and worse. It doesn't state when the drugs started, but I read it (and remember this was published in 1986 when Hollyood = cocaine) that somewhere on the slide down she became an addict, and that contributed to the slide into adult films.

But, we don't see that part. She's introduced at rock-bottom.

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Old 05-15-2015, 04:09 PM   #22
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Miller having Karen Page * SPOILER *
Me neither. Nor has a lot of what miller has written. Way too dark most of the time.

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Old 05-17-2015, 03:35 PM   #23
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Well,

Spoiler:
I never knew her from the earlier comics, but I didn't think it unlikely. The text clearly states that the parts got worse and worse. It doesn't state when the drugs started, but I read it (and remember this was published in 1986 when Hollyood = cocaine) that somewhere on the slide down she became an addict, and that contributed to the slide into adult films.

But, we don't see that part. She's introduced at rock-bottom.
And I think that's the real problem,
Spoiler:
she's introduced at rock bottom. A couple of lines about how her acting career went downhill doesn't suffice for such a radical change and I don't think Miller mentioned anything about why the drug use started other than playing into the cheap stereotype of a drug addicted porn actress.

And it is a radical change as when we last saw Karen, she had a career in legitimate acting.
Or at least enough of one where she was lead in a movie Johnny Blaze was working on and the fact that she got a part in The Incredible Hulk TV series made the New York newspapers so Ben Grimm could read about it.
(Did she appear in The Champions? I don't know.)

Even before Ereth mentioned "Snowbirds Don't Fly" in Green Lantern/Green Arrow 85 and 86, I'd mulling over what made that story different in regards to how Roy becomes a drug addict.

Sure the climax of #85 is the shock reveal of Ollie walking in on Roy shooting up but O'Neil had dropped some hints previously not only that he was a junkie but as to how he got there.
Hints enough that Hal Jordan figured it out on his own before Ollie could tell him and Hal decides to track down Roy.
And when he does, Roy gives Hal additional explanation of how he got to that point.

We get none of this with Miller's Born Again.
Miller wanted the shocker of junkie Karen Page selling out Matt for a fix to kick off the story but he doesn't really put in the work of justifying how she got to this point. We got nothing beyond those few lines of exposition on the first page.

So to anyone who knows anything about the Karen Page of the past, it really doesn't work.
(Yes, I know some people justified it because it was "Frank Miller!!!".)


I suppose Ann Nocenti could have fleshed out that aspect in her run but I dropped the book three or four issues into her run because it was soooo bad and I already didn't have a high opinion of her work from her other Marvel stuff that I read.
(And my reading of her recent runs on Green Arrow, Catwoman, and Katana have only solidified that opinion.)

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