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Old 06-05-2012, 07:12 AM   #1
loubob57
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What's wrong with my S3?

I ordered this S3 the day they were announced so I guess it's as old as an S3 can be unless you work for TiVo.

Anyhow, last night I noticed it was stuck on the menu page and the clock had an old time on it. So I tried rebooting but it sat there with all the front LEDs lit for a long time. So I tried again and those went out this time but the display stayed blank. Both times no video was coming out. I didn't listen for any hard drive clicking, I may do that tonight. I've read about bulged PS caps and will also check those.

Anything else I can easily check?
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Old 06-05-2012, 07:50 AM   #2
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Based on the number of S3 OLED's with capacitor plague being reported here and the description of your symptoms, my guess is its going to be the power supply.
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Old 06-05-2012, 11:55 AM   #3
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My original S3 just had a power supply failure, where it wouldn't power up at all, and a slight ticking noise internally. No caps were obvious so I replaced the whole power supply.

Its been working fine ever since.
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Old 06-05-2012, 08:11 PM   #4
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No clicking noises indicating a bad hard drive. So I pulled it out and removed the cover. Sure enough the top of C701 is bulged a bit. So I need to find a 2200 μF capacitor to replace it.

ETA: Just ordered 4 of them from Amazon for $10.44.

4pcs Rubycon ZL 2200uF 25v 105c Radial Electrolytic Capacitor Low ESR
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Old 06-08-2012, 12:57 AM   #5
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When my S3 capacitors started bulging I just replaced them all. Actually I think I may have missed one or two under the heatsink that I didn't see at first.

I ordered from Mouser. They will ship USPS First Class Mail if you ask them to in your order notes and you will save a couple dollars.

These are all low ESR and good brands, in case anybody wants to save the hour or two it can take to track them all down.

1x https://www.mouser.com/Search/Produc...K102M0JBK0820P
2x https://www.mouser.com/Search/Produc...67-EEU-FR1C471
4x https://www.mouser.com/Search/Produc...67-EEU-FR1A332
1x https://www.mouser.com/Search/Produc...67-EEU-FR1C222
1x https://www.mouser.com/Search/Produc...7-EEU-FR1E222L

It was under $10 shipped for all of them.
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Old 06-08-2012, 03:34 PM   #6
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SUCCESS!

The capacitors came in the mail today.
I soldered in the new one and it works. Yay!
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Old 07-22-2012, 05:17 PM   #7
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Hmmmm

Here we are a little over a month later and the S3 started freezing the picture and audio sporadically. Could it be the power supply problem caused the hard drive to dork up? Or maybe it's just a coincidence?
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Old 07-22-2012, 06:16 PM   #8
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Could be just a coincedence. How old is the hard drive?

I suppose it would be possible that a bad power supply *could* damage the electronics on the hard drive circuit board.

I would start by running the kickstart codes (54 & 57) or at least take the drive out of the Tivo and make a truncated backup now while it is still working.

When you open the Tivo, double check the capacitors you didn't replace.
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Old 07-22-2012, 06:54 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve614 View Post
Could be just a coincedence. How old is the hard drive?

I suppose it would be possible that a bad power supply *could* damage the electronics on the hard drive circuit board.

I would start by running the kickstart codes (54 & 57) or at least take the drive out of the Tivo and make a truncated backup now while it is still working.

When you open the Tivo, double check the capacitors you didn't replace.
This S3 was purchased in April 2006. The hard drive is original.

I popped the cover off and looked at all the caps and none are bulged.

It seems to have settled down, but I'll keep an eye on it.
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Old 07-22-2012, 08:55 PM   #10
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FWIW, I'm using Verizon FiOS/cablecard with a S3 HD that has a 1TB HD that I placed myself a year or so ago. I've noticed the same brief periods of lag/audio drop as well on several channels. Using HDMI to set and Toslink to old 5.1 receiver. I've had my cover off previously and haven't noticed any cap bulges but I do have a backup of both the original drive which I have stored away, as well as the 1TB drive.
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Old 07-23-2012, 02:38 AM   #11
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When my S3 capacitors started bulging I just replaced them all. Actually I think I may have missed one or two under the heatsink that I didn't see at first.

I ordered from Mouser. They will ship USPS First Class Mail if you ask them to in your order notes and you will save a couple dollars.

These are all low ESR and good brands, in case anybody wants to save the hour or two it can take to track them all down.

1x https://www.mouser.com/Search/Produc...K102M0JBK0820P
2x https://www.mouser.com/Search/Produc...67-EEU-FR1C471
4x https://www.mouser.com/Search/Produc...67-EEU-FR1A332
1x https://www.mouser.com/Search/Produc...67-EEU-FR1C222
1x https://www.mouser.com/Search/Produc...7-EEU-FR1E222L

It was under $10 shipped for all of them.
"...I may have missed one or two under the heatsink that I didn't see at first."

And where do you think the ones most likely to be going bad are most likely to be located.

Actually, the ones most likely to be going bad will be on the +5V and +12V outputs, + lead connected to red or yellow wire and - lead to black wires.
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:57 AM   #12
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The symptoms are still there. It will run fine for 15 minutes then the audio will drop out and the picture will freeze for a second or two and it will do that 3 or 4 times. Then it will run fine for 10-15 minutes again. Lather, rinse, ... It is also slow on responding to remote button pushes sometimes.

Does that sound like power supply or hard drive?
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:52 AM   #13
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How's your signal strength? Low signal input can cause similar problems on digital channels.
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:02 AM   #14
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How's your signal strength? Low signal input can cause similar problems on digital channels.
Never had a problem with signal strength. I've got a rooftop antenna and am about 30 miles from the transmitters.
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Old 07-23-2012, 11:12 AM   #15
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The symptoms are still there. It will run fine for 15 minutes then the audio will drop out and the picture will freeze for a second or two and it will do that 3 or 4 times. Then it will run fine for 10-15 minutes again. Lather, rinse, ... It is also slow on responding to remote button pushes sometimes.

Does that sound like power supply or hard drive?
Definitely the HD IMO, had the same problem on a Hitachi 1TB a few months ago. Would freeze/resume on various shows and got worse over time to the point where the Tivo would reboot.

You need to backup/upsize the drive now before it fails, especially since its the original S3 drive.
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Old 07-23-2012, 11:51 AM   #16
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I was just going to get a replacement drive from Weaknees.
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Old 07-23-2012, 11:58 AM   #17
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I was just going to get a replacement drive from Weaknees.
That'll work.
Now would be a good time to get a larger drive.
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:26 PM   #18
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I suppose it would be possible that a bad power supply *could* damage the electronics on the hard drive circuit board.
I don't have absolute proof, but I had a S3 whose hard drive died (doesn't even show up as an attached device to a computer), but still spins up when it gets power... THEN the S3 itself died VERY soon after.. or maybe it was the same time, I honestly don't remember now..

But I got a S3 that supposedly arrived today to hopefully use for parts (power supply first), to revive my lifetime S3, then hope to buy an exact drive on eBay to revive my recordings.. If that works, then I'll likely transfer the recordings & sell the fixed S3 and get an XL4 for the more tuners.
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Old 07-23-2012, 10:32 PM   #19
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I don't have absolute proof, but I had a S3 whose hard drive died (doesn't even show up as an attached device to a computer), but still spins up when it gets power... THEN the S3 itself died VERY soon after.. or maybe it was the same time, I honestly don't remember now..

But I got a S3 that supposedly arrived today to hopefully use for parts (power supply first), to revive my lifetime S3, then hope to buy an exact drive on eBay to revive my recordings.. If that works, then I'll likely transfer the recordings & sell the fixed S3 and get an XL4 for the more tuners.
"...then hope to buy an exact drive on eBay to revive my recordings.. "

Are you talking about a paddle board swap, or putting the current platter assembly into the new drive?
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Old 07-24-2012, 08:44 PM   #20
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It seemed to work pretty well this evening, but that doesn't matter too much because ... I ordered a Premiere yesterday to replace this S3 and it showed up today! So now I have 2 Premieres a 45 Hr and a 75 Hr.

Since the S3 has lifetime it would be worth it to fix it so I'll try copying this drive to another SATA drive I have from an old computer. But there's no rush now.
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Old 07-24-2012, 09:45 PM   #21
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"...then hope to buy an exact drive on eBay to revive my recordings.. "

Are you talking about a paddle board swap, or putting the current platter assembly into the new drive?
A controller card swap.. Since the drive DOES get power and spins (I can feel it), it seems to me that it's not *completely* unreasonable that the controller died. I do not want to pass on myths, but "supposedly" drive recovery companies often also "just" swap controller cards, and I have seen a few anecdotal examples of people saying they successfully swapped controller cards to 'revive' a drive. (Not a drive on a Tivo, but that part is irrelevant.)

Though my probably-futile dreams are on hold, because they sent me a Tivo HD instead of an OLED S3. (Looking at the original auction again, there definitely were mentions of BOTH the OLED S3 and Tivo HD model #s, but it also mentioned OLED, 250 GB hard drive, etc... I contacted the seller, and will go through the eBay dispute process if necessary.)

Heck, if I had access to a clean room, etc., I would even be curious about the latter.. (yes, I know it's "only" TV recordings)
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:13 PM   #22
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A controller card swap.. Since the drive DOES get power and spins (I can feel it), it seems to me that it's not *completely* unreasonable that the controller died. I do not want to pass on myths, but "supposedly" drive recovery companies often also "just" swap controller cards, and I have seen a few anecdotal examples of people saying they successfully swapped controller cards to 'revive' a drive. (Not a drive on a Tivo, but that part is irrelevant.)

Though my probably-futile dreams are on hold, because they sent me a Tivo HD instead of an OLED S3. (Looking at the original auction again, there definitely were mentions of BOTH the OLED S3 and Tivo HD model #s, but it also mentioned OLED, 250 GB hard drive, etc... I contacted the seller, and will go through the eBay dispute process if necessary.)

Heck, if I had access to a clean room, etc., I would even be curious about the latter.. (yes, I know it's "only" TV recordings)

Yeah, but they're your TV recordings!
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Old 08-18-2012, 04:16 PM   #23
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It seemed to work pretty well this evening, but that doesn't matter too much because ... I ordered a Premiere yesterday to replace this S3 and it showed up today! So now I have 2 Premieres a 45 Hr and a 75 Hr.

Since the S3 has lifetime it would be worth it to fix it so I'll try copying this drive to another SATA drive I have from an old computer. But there's no rush now.
I made a backup of my S3 drive and copied onto an old Seagate 1 TB drive I had. The process was pretty easy, but it did take 2 tries to get past a disk error. The old "inode error" that I'm not alone in seeing. Anyhow, I'll see if it works OK as a bedroom TiVo, or maybe sell it to a friend.
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Old 08-18-2012, 05:40 PM   #24
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I made a backup of my S3 drive and copied onto an old Seagate 1 TB drive I had. The process was pretty easy, but it did take 2 tries to get past a disk error. The old "inode error" that I'm not alone in seeing. Anyhow, I'll see if it works OK as a bedroom TiVo, or maybe sell it to a friend.
You know that cap you replaced? It was probably in parallel (+ lead connected to same place, - lead connected to same place) with another cap of the same rating.

Which means that other cap was doing double duty.

You ordered like 4 of them, right?

Get the soldering iron back out.

Can't hurt, might help.

It doesn't have to show a bulge or a leak to be less than perfect.
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Old 08-31-2012, 05:06 PM   #25
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When my S3 capacitors started bulging I just replaced them all. Actually I think I may have missed one or two under the heatsink that I didn't see at first.

These are all low ESR and good brands, in case anybody wants to save the hour or two it can take to track them all down.

1x https://www.mouser.com/Search/Produc...K102M0JBK0820P
2x https://www.mouser.com/Search/Produc...67-EEU-FR1C471
4x https://www.mouser.com/Search/Produc...67-EEU-FR1A332
1x https://www.mouser.com/Search/Produc...67-EEU-FR1C222
1x https://www.mouser.com/Search/Produc...7-EEU-FR1E222L

It was under $10 shipped for all of them.
thread bump ---

Thanks for all your footwork. Ordered just now! The 2 470uF 16V were back ordered, but I got the rest, plus 2x 2200uF 6.3V caps that weren't on your list, but in my PS.
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Old 09-01-2012, 11:56 AM   #26
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In case anyone is looking for a parts list for the original S3 OLED power supply. I posted what I bought in this thread.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...93#post9131293

TiVo S3 OLED capacitor list:
3Y power supply: CP-1104 R2
TiVo PN: SPWR-00008-000 Rev A3

I went ahead and replaced 11 of the 15 capacitors to hopefully preemptively catch any of the other primary ones that might fail. The ones that I replaced fall into 3 main groups on the power supply board so that's how I've listed them starting with the ones that were bulging on mine.

C401 2200uF 6.3V Panasonic EEU-FR0J222 Digikey P14365-ND $0.81
C402 2200uF 6.3V Panasonic EEU-FR0J222 Digikey P14365-ND $0.81

C601 2200uF 16V Panasonic EEU-FR1C222 Digikey P14402-ND $1.01
C701 2200uF 25V Panasonic EEU-FR1E222L Digikey P14428-ND $1.43
C501 3300uF 10V Panasonic EEU-FR1A332 Digikey P14383-ND $1.01
C502 3300uF 10V Panasonic EEU-FR1A332 Digikey P14383-ND $1.01
C503 3300uF 10V Panasonic EEU-FR1A332 Digikey P14383-ND $1.01

C50? 3300uF 10V Panasonic EEU-FR1A332 Digikey P14383-ND $1.01
C603 470uF 16V Panasonic EEU-FR1C471 Digikey P14394-ND $0.49
C702 470uF 16V Panasonic EEU-FR1C471 Digikey P14394-ND $0.49
C403 1000uF 6.3V Panasonic EEU-FM0J102 Digikey P12340-ND $0.51

All are rated at 10000hrs@105C except for the last 3 which are 6000hrs@105C and 4000hrs@105C. Cost was $9.59 in parts plus $0.48 tax and $4.91 S&H for a total of $14.98.

Scott
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Old 09-01-2012, 12:52 PM   #27
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As far as I know the original S3 only used the one power supply model, but the S3 HD, and, I suspect therefore the HD XL, used at least 2 different models, so HD owners should open it up before ordering capacitors, not after.
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Old 09-01-2012, 02:26 PM   #28
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As far as I know the original S3 only used the one power supply model, but the S3 HD, and, I suspect therefore the HD XL, used at least 2 different models, so HD owners should open it up before ordering capacitors, not after.
Actually good thing to know as I just picked up a TiVoHD for my son to take to college and after upgrading the stock 160GB drive to 2TB, I also checked out the power supply and capacitors. This particular power supply was SPWR-00011-000 Rev B0 (model ST7002-BW0G) and looked to be a far simpler design than what's in my 2 S3 OLED units. There were only 6 capactors that I would consider replacing in it versus the 11 in the OLED models.

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Old 09-01-2012, 02:46 PM   #29
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Actually good thing to know as I just picked up a TiVoHD for my son to take to college and after upgrading the stock 160GB drive to 2TB, I also checked out the power supply and capacitors. This particular power supply was SPWR-00011-000 Rev B0 (model ST7002-BW0G) and looked to be a far simpler design than what's in my 2 S3 OLED units. There were only 6 capactors that I would consider replacing in it versus the 11 in the OLED models.

Scott
What brand and model of 2TB drive did you use and has it given any trouble?
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Old 09-02-2012, 09:49 AM   #30
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I used a WD20EURS and no trouble so far however my son hasn't used it much so far at school yet since the new season for most shows hasn't started.

Scott
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