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Old 12-21-2014, 10:16 PM   #1
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Homeland S4E12 12/21/2014 "Long Time Coming"

I'm disappointed. I'm not sure what I expected, but that wasn't it. I kept hoping it was building up to something, but it didn't.
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Old 12-21-2014, 10:22 PM   #2
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Yeah, it's weird the gymnastics they went through to restore the show's status quo...Saul in charge, Dar his black ops guy, Quinn a government assassin, and Carrie the nutjob on the outside who will be brought into the inside because she's the star of the show so damn good.

Then again, as so often happens on this show, they can't really have what happens have consequences, because if they did it would blow everything up. It's turning into another Burn Notice, where every year everything changes and yet everything remains the same.

Of course, Burn Notice was never this good...

Too bad they couldn't stick the landing on this season. It will never be what it was in the first season, but at least this year it turned into a good show again, although not the same kind of good show it started out as.
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Old 12-22-2014, 09:38 AM   #3
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That was a good season wrap-up...love the ending with Dar and Saul and Carrie's frustration with it all.

Assumed Quinn would go on his mission and not come back, but we'll see what happens next season. I hope he returns as I enjoy his Bauer-esque character.
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Old 12-22-2014, 11:13 AM   #4
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That was a good season wrap-up...love the ending with Dar and Saul and Carrie's frustration with it all.

Assumed Quinn would go on his mission and not come back, but we'll see what happens next season. I hope he returns as I enjoy his Bauer-esque character.
C'Mon. You just know that it'll be that we see and hear nothing from Quinn and he's presumed dead until we see him pop up again late at the end of a late episode next season. (AKA, It was all a dream. )

I think the biggest flaw is that there was very little reason for Quinn to go back in. He has to be used to knowing that missions would go on and operatives would get killed.

Same with Saul. He was totally burned out and had no reason to want to be back in.

What do you suppose was on the video? Saul giving up secrets?

You know we still don't know who in PK the previous station chief was in contact with that set him up.
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Old 12-22-2014, 11:19 AM   #5
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CI think the biggest flaw is that there was very little reason for Quinn to go back in. He has to be used to knowing that missions would go on and operatives would get killed.
I'm not sure what you mean here. The reason he went back in was because he thought Carrie had dumped him. In their earlier conversation, he had said that he always goes back in, and was hoping she could keep him out. When she didn't instantly say "Yes, I'll be your love-bunny," he assumed (unfairly) that she was saying "No, I'll never be your love-bunny." So he went back in.
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Same with Saul. He was totally burned out and had no reason to want to be back in.
He wants to get Haqqani. Badly. I suspect the fact that that's putatively off the table isn't stopping him from taking the job and later using it to get Haqqani.
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Old 12-22-2014, 11:52 AM   #6
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Add to the long list of plot holes:

Haqqani still has the list of intelligence sources, that Lockhart gave up.
Congressional investigations? By every measure Haqqani, the murdering terrorist, WON, and won big, so we make nice and negotiate with him?
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Old 12-22-2014, 12:57 PM   #7
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C'Mon. You just know that it'll be that we see and hear nothing from Quinn and he's presumed dead until we see him pop up again late at the end of a late episode next season. (AKA, It was all a dream. )

What do you suppose was on the video? Saul giving up secrets?
I don't think Quinn will be out of the picture very long, this is just a "our heroes are separated and spread across the world, how will they reunite?" story. Overdone in general, and to me overdone on this show. I'd rather have seen them (Carrie, Quinn, Saul) come together in bitter, disillusioned, resolute camaraderie to go after the man who so fundamentally ruined them. I think that is a much more satisfying ending (and true to the characters). That seemed like what Saul was doing; basically whatever he had to in order to get Huqqani (sp?)

As to what's on the video, nothing we didn't see in earlier episodes. It isn't that Saul gave anything up, its the image of a beaten (physically and emotionally) Saul sitting on the floor at the feet of America's enemy. Hard to be head of the CIA when that is in everybody's mind.

If this show wants to try and become the non guilty pleasure 24, I'm all in. Loved the 3-4 episodes leading up to this one (though they had their issues) but this episode fell flat for me. I know that in a lot of great shows (Wire, FX stuff) the drama crescendos in episode 12 and 13 is a coda/wrap up, but this one made me want to yell at the writers "just give us what we want!"
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Old 12-22-2014, 01:28 PM   #8
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I don't think Quinn will be out of the picture very long, this is just a "our heroes are separated and spread across the world, how will they reunite?" story. Overdone in general, and to me overdone on this show. I'd rather have seen them (Carrie, Quinn, Saul) come together in bitter, disillusioned, resolute camaraderie to go after the man who so fundamentally ruined them. I think that is a much more satisfying ending (and true to the characters). That seemed like what Saul was doing; basically whatever he had to in order to get Huqqani (sp?)

As to what's on the video, nothing we didn't see in earlier episodes. It isn't that Saul gave anything up, its the image of a beaten (physically and emotionally) Saul sitting on the floor at the feet of America's enemy. Hard to be head of the CIA when that is in everybody's mind.

If this show wants to try and become the non guilty pleasure 24, I'm all in. Loved the 3-4 episodes leading up to this one (though they had their issues) but this episode fell flat for me. I know that in a lot of great shows (Wire, FX stuff) the drama crescendos in episode 12 and 13 is a coda/wrap up, but this one made me want to yell at the writers "just give us what we want!"
The Sopranos was almost always like this. The last episode is a relax episode.

That being said it felt like an episode of the amazing race where the runners get to the pit stop and Phil says your still racing.
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Old 12-22-2014, 02:30 PM   #9
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I'm disappointed. I'm not sure what I expected, but that wasn't it. I kept hoping it was building up to something, but it didn't.
Ok, so it's not just me. Good.
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Old 12-22-2014, 03:23 PM   #10
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I know that in a lot of great shows (Wire, FX stuff) the drama crescendos in episode 12 and 13 is a coda/wrap up, but this one made me want to yell at the writers "just give us what we want!"
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The Sopranos was almost always like this. The last episode is a relax episode.
These kinds of episodes feel like a denouement, essentially trying to tie up loose ends. Kind of the calm after the storm. And look, I learned something form 10th grade English class.
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Old 12-22-2014, 03:28 PM   #11
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Hated this episode. Horrible episode for a season finale. Makes me not care at all about next season. Nothing interesting setup for next year, etc...
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Old 12-22-2014, 04:27 PM   #12
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As to what's on the video, nothing we didn't see in earlier episodes. It isn't that Saul gave anything up, its the image of a beaten (physically and emotionally) Saul sitting on the floor at the feet of America's enemy. Hard to be head of the CIA when that is in everybody's mind.
I know this is what they were saying, but it makes no sense to me. He was captured and tortured and endured it all and didn't give anything up, so why not be CIA chief? Of course he was kind of stupid getting captured, and then recaptured, but nobody knows all that....

I guess I'd rather have them wrap up loose ends than have a big cliff hanger that I won't remember when next season starts. I didn't remember if it was renewed or not, so for a minute there I thought everyone was going to ride off into the sunset.

Anyone notice that the baby's hair wasn't nearly as red this week? And Carrie is never going to leave her again?
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Old 12-22-2014, 04:38 PM   #13
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I hate to say it but the baby sure looks like he has Down's syndrome. Anybody else feel that way?
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Old 12-22-2014, 08:00 PM   #14
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The mother story-line did nothing for me. Oh, so now we know why their mother was not around! I've been wondering for over 3.9 seasons! </sarc> I don't recall her ever being mentioned in the series.

I also don't get why every male character in this show has a thing for Carrie. Crazy is not attractive.

Re: Sandy Bachman's contact, who betrayed him, was probably Tasneem. It was all part of Haqqani's long con. For all we know the high value targets were rival Taliban warlords, so we were strengthening Haqqani's position through drone strikes.

I'm a little fuzzy on Dar Adal's end game too. It was that important for him to protect Saul's image? All he promised Haqqani was to take him off the kill list? Isn't Haqqani already untouchable in the tribal areas, protected by the PK military?
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Old 12-22-2014, 09:28 PM   #15
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This one felt more like a season opener. Last week was the real finale.
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Old 12-22-2014, 10:21 PM   #16
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I also don't get why every male character in this show has a thing for Carrie. Crazy is not attractive.
She's a single mother, too, and according to our media overlords, men should be lining up for a chance with her.
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Old 12-23-2014, 01:57 PM   #17
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I hate to say it but the baby sure looks like he has Down's syndrome. Anybody else feel that way?
Yeah. I had that thought, but I think they found a baby (or twins) that looked A LOT like Brody.
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Old 12-23-2014, 02:14 PM   #18
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Yeah. I had that thought, but I think they found a baby (or twins) that looked A LOT like Brody.
True but of course with all the meds she was taking plus the alcohol binging plus smoking it wouldn't surprise me.
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Old 12-23-2014, 04:54 PM   #19
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Ok, I just finished pissing in The Affair thread, now it's Homeland's turn. SHO is on a roll. Downhill.

Disappointing finale. While they didn't have to end with a knuckle-whitening thriller (like the last 3-4 episodes have been), I did expect more than this snoozer.

The entire story with her mom was out of place. We've never seen her or even had a reference to her, and now they spend half the finale on her? Sorry, but this is the wrong episode to introduce her. I get that they wanted to pay tribute to James Rebhorn, but introducing a previously unseen ex-wife ain't the way to do it. Maybe they want to still have a parent presence next year, but again... this wasn't the time or place.

I thought the idea of Saul wanting to return to head up the CIA was farfetched. One, it seems out of character for a guy who really wanted out of the game just a few eps ago. Also, if a CIA head was kidnapped, then returned, could you trust him? What if he was turned or brainwashed? It seems (again) farfetched to think a recently kidnapped CIA chief would get his position back. And the video he's afraid of? Now Haqqani can hold it over his head, any time he wants. Oh, the only copy was destroyed. Suuuure.

Oddly, the baby & sister scenes were pretty good, and they often aren't. And the reason for Dar Adal's involvement actually seemed believable, so I can buy that. Although I still don't trust him.

Was anyone else waiting for Quinn's car to blow up when he drove off? That wouldn't have been out of place for this show!

There is little that could drive me away from watching this show. I will be back next year, waiting to see what insanities arise from our heroine's mind. But this was not a way to make count down the days.
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Old 12-23-2014, 05:06 PM   #20
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...Was anyone else waiting for Quinn's car to blow up when he drove off? That wouldn't have been out of place for this show!
...
Every time there was a tight shot of Carrie I was waiting for the inevitable hood outta nowhere grabbing her with a gun.

I noticed that the scene at night with Carrie & Quinn by his truck were shot with a deliberate almost handheld effect where their heads kept bouncing in the frame.
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Old 12-23-2014, 08:32 PM   #21
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...
Also, if a CIA head was kidnapped, then returned, could you trust him? What if he was turned or brainwashed? It seems (again) farfetched to think a recently kidnapped CIA chief would get his position back. And the video he's afraid of? Now Haqqani can hold it over his head, any time he wants. Oh, the only copy was destroyed. Suuuure.
...
Especially considering what happened to Brody. After that, anyone kidnapped and returned should be viewed with a bit of skepticism and should definitely not be put in charge of the CIA.
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Old 12-23-2014, 08:43 PM   #22
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Especially considering what happened to Brody. After that, anyone kidnapped and returned should be viewed with a bit of skepticism and should definitely not be put in charge of the CIA.
Did you forget the smiley?

They had Saul for a few days. They had Brody for years.
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Old 12-23-2014, 10:43 PM   #23
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Did you forget the smiley?

They had Saul for a few days. They had Brody for years.
I can't speak for Azlen, but I didn't forget a smilie. Didn't need one.

A former CIA director who resigned under pressure, or was forced out, I forget which. And then he gets kidnapped under suspect conditions (we saw it, but no one else did). Would YOU take him back? To head our most secret organization?

If you would, I don't want you running our government.
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Old 12-24-2014, 01:28 AM   #24
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A former CIA director who resigned under pressure, or was forced out, I forget which. And then he gets kidnapped under suspect conditions (we saw it, but no one else did). Would YOU take him back? To head our most secret organization?

If you would, I don't want you running our government.
Got kidnapped, escaped, insisted that he be killed unless he got away clean, then was part of a hostage exchange despite his insistence. What is the problem?

If you see a problem with that, I don't want you in a position where intelligent decisions must be made.
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Old 12-24-2014, 09:03 AM   #25
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If you would, I don't want you running our government.
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If you see a problem with that, I don't want you in a position where intelligent decisions must be made.
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Old 12-25-2014, 04:58 AM   #26
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I kept thinking she was going to get grabbed too. Or she was going to come home from her trip and find her family missing or dead. (The embasadors husband took a picture of her holding the kid)

This felt so anti-climatic. I expected some sort of big ending leaving me itching to see next season. Instead we got this weird setup for a future storyline and zero payoff.
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Old 12-26-2014, 04:05 PM   #27
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Finally got around to watching this and I'm disappointed in how the wrapped up the season; for that matter I'm pretty disappointed in the entire season...

We'll see what next year brings, but at the moment I'm wondering if it'll be able to keep my interesting for another season.
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Old 12-27-2014, 08:29 AM   #28
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The season finale was a dud. It's very disappointing, considering the later episodes in this season were borderline explosive.
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Old 12-27-2014, 01:09 PM   #29
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Pakistan was unhappy with the whole season:

http://nypost.com/2014/12/27/pakista...l-in-homeland/
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Old 12-27-2014, 03:08 PM   #30
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Pakistan was unhappy with the whole season:

http://nypost.com/2014/12/27/pakista...l-in-homeland/
I predicted that.

And actual CIA folks say that some of it rings pretty true:
Quote:
Unlike other shows, this is not set in a fictitious "Ruritania;" it portrays a real country, Pakistan, and a real terrorist group, the Haqqani network.

As the show depicts,is indeed a two-speed society: on the one hand there are the poor and struggling masses, radicalized by the former (and later executed) Prime Minister Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto and now more inclined toward Islamist soothsayers in place of the erstwhile nationalist ones. On the other hand there are the elites, mostly Punjabi, civil and military, who run the country.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...gents-assess-h ow -real-is-homeland.html
Remember that Pakistan's response to the US finding Osama Bin Laden, the #1 most wanted terrorist mastermind, living in a comfy estate a mile from the Pakistan military academy was to formally complain about Pakistan's sovereignty being violated.

With friends like these...
..which is the point of this plot in Homeland.
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