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Old 10-06-2013, 08:44 PM   #1
jff6791
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Tuner swapping resets time

I've had a Premiere Elite for about an year and notice that when I cycle thru tuners now while viewing the buffer the time is reset back to live the next time the tuner comes up. It doesn't matter where in the buffer you are or which channel(s) are being viewed. I don't believe this happened when it was new and is rather annoying. Has some update added a setting for this that needs to be changed? I have a Motorola Comcast DVR that doesn't act this way.
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Old 10-06-2013, 11:21 PM   #2
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That's how it has always worked since the first multiple tuner Tivo. The only way around it is to pause before going to another tuner.
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Old 10-07-2013, 12:06 AM   #3
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Don't know how I missed that - obviously spend more time w/ Motorola DVR. Pausing only works till the back of the buffer catches up with the paused time. Then it jumps to live. It's an inferior design for anyone trying to watch multiple shows/sports events and toggle between them.
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Old 10-07-2013, 11:30 AM   #4
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It's an inferior design for anyone trying to watch multiple shows/sports events and toggle between them.
Well, it is a video recorder, maybe you should try using the recording feature
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Old 10-07-2013, 12:50 PM   #5
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Well, it is a video recorder, maybe you should try using the recording feature
+1.

The only way the design is "inferior" is the result of a basic tenet in s/w design - If you try to make your s/w idiot proof, the world will provide a "better" idiot.
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Old 10-09-2013, 10:30 PM   #6
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+1.

The only way the design is "inferior" is the result of a basic tenet in s/w design - If you try to make your s/w idiot proof, the world will provide a "better" idiot.
The hardware is what's deficient. By combining the '"Swap" and "Live" operations in the same button the user can't separate the two functions.
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Old 10-10-2013, 11:09 AM   #7
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The hardware is what's deficient. By combining the '"Swap" and "Live" operations in the same button the user can't separate the two functions.


Hint: try "Info" and then select the tuner you wish to switch to.
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Old 10-10-2013, 12:25 PM   #8
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Hint: try "Info" and then select the tuner you wish to switch to.

more work for the exact same result as using the Live TV button
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Old 10-10-2013, 12:51 PM   #9
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more work for the exact same result as using the Live TV button
I agree, but it is a "separate" function.

To the OP: this is all s/w, and has nothing to do with h/w. IMNSHO, this is the best way to handle it as it works with ALL TiVo remotes. There was absolutely no reason to add a button to the remote whose sole function is to cycle between tuners and making this button the only way to do that, thus making it impossible for the older remotes to do so.
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Old 10-12-2013, 12:12 PM   #10
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I agree, but it is a "separate" function.

To the OP: this is all s/w, and has nothing to do with h/w. IMNSHO, this is the best way to handle it as it works with ALL TiVo remotes. There was absolutely no reason to add a button to the remote whose sole function is to cycle between tuners and making this button the only way to do that, thus making it impossible for the older remotes to do so.
How about this for a reason: you just rolled out a major hardware addition to the DVR (multiple tuners) and don't modify the remote to take full advantage of it why? So the older single tuner remotes could still control the new function? That's a little hard to believe since remotes are bundled with the units and replacements are not a high cost item.
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Old 10-12-2013, 12:42 PM   #11
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How about this for a reason: you just rolled out a major hardware addition to the DVR (multiple tuners) and don't modify the remote to take full advantage of it why? So the older single tuner remotes could still control the new function? That's a little hard to believe since remotes are bundled with the units and replacements are not a high cost item.
You're talking about hardware again, when the issue is the software.
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Old 10-12-2013, 02:06 PM   #12
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I am also trying to figure out how creating a separate button for this function will address the initial complaint. All it would accomplish is to make existing remotes not work properly on the new platforms.

There is flat out NO logical reason for doing this. The Live TV/Swap button works perfectly fine as is. If the TiVo is not in "live" TV, it switches to it. If it is in that mode, it cycles between available tuners.
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Old 10-13-2013, 07:18 AM   #13
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I am also trying to figure out how creating a separate button for this function will address the initial complaint. All it would accomplish is to make existing remotes not work properly on the new platforms.

There is flat out NO logical reason for doing this. The Live TV/Swap button works perfectly fine as is. If the TiVo is not in "live" TV, it switches to it. If it is in that mode, it cycles between available tuners.
And resets the point at which you were watching up to live - which is not "perfectly fine" if you didn't want to do that. Other DVRs don't make you rewind every time you change tuners since "Live" and "Swap" are separate functions.
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Old 10-13-2013, 11:29 AM   #14
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And resets the point at which you were watching up to live - which is not "perfectly fine" if you didn't want to do that. Other DVRs don't make you rewind every time you change tuners since "Live" and "Swap" are separate functions.
And how does changing which button does this change that? Answer: It doesn't. At this point, I have to ask: are you as completely clueless as you seem to be or are you a troll?
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:43 PM   #15
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And how does changing which button does this change that? Answer: It doesn't. At this point, I have to ask: are you as completely clueless as you seem to be or are you a troll?
It's changed by having separate buttons - one marked Live, one marked Swap.
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Old 10-14-2013, 08:15 PM   #16
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It's changed by having separate buttons - one marked Live, one marked Swap.
Since I don't really believe anyone could be this obtuse and still be able compose a coherent sentence, troll it is.
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Old 10-14-2013, 08:18 PM   #17
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At this point, I have to ask: are you as completely clueless as you seem to be or are you a troll?
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It's changed by having separate buttons - one marked Live, one marked Swap.
You didn't answer the question?
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Old 10-15-2013, 09:41 PM   #18
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You didn't answer the question?
There were two questions. I answered the one pertinent to the discussion. Personal attacks contribute nothing and are unworthy of a response.
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:29 PM   #19
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There were two questions. I answered the one pertinent to the discussion. Personal attacks contribute nothing and are unworthy of a response.
It wasn't a personal attack, it was a legitimate question. The question you "answered" was rhetorical, but let me rephrase it so maybe you will understand - What of consequence does adding a separate button change and how does it address your initial complaint?
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Old 10-18-2013, 09:37 PM   #20
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It wasn't a personal attack, it was a legitimate question. The question you "answered" was rhetorical, but let me rephrase it so maybe you will understand - What of consequence does adding a separate button change and how does it address your initial complaint?
Here's how: When I watch live tv - usually sports events on at the same time - I put each of them on separate tuners and pause/swap between them to skip ads. This way I can watch two or three games, miss little on none of the action, see zero ads and not have to manage recording space if low ( and it is on the Motorola since drive is tiny). The problem that can arise is when you don't get back to one of the tuners before the front end of the buffer catches up with your paused time. When this happens on the Motorola you end up at live minus 30 minutes and no action is required. On the Tivo you are at live and have to rewind the 30 minutes while trying to not look at the screen and have the outcome spoiled. This gets tedious and stems from the fact that the "swap" and "live" functions share the same remote button. The workaround on the Tivo is to record everything but that creates more work since it always asks about adding time since events are live and you have to remember to delete it all to avoid clutter. Separate buttons avoid all of this.
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Old 10-18-2013, 10:00 PM   #21
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I was spoiled by the Sony DVR, it was only a one-tuner but it had a selectable buffer, 30, 60, or 90 min. I miss this the most, now using a TiVo.. TiVo's buffer is sub-par. Anyone know a reason TiVo, even with the new Roamio, still only offers 30 min buffer?
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Old 10-18-2013, 10:33 PM   #22
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Here's how: When I watch live tv - usually sports events on at the same time - I put each of them on separate tuners and pause/swap between them to skip ads. This way I can watch two or three games, miss little on none of the action, see zero ads and not have to manage recording space if low ( and it is on the Motorola since drive is tiny). The problem that can arise is when you don't get back to one of the tuners before the front end of the buffer catches up with your paused time. When this happens on the Motorola you end up at live minus 30 minutes and no action is required. On the Tivo you are at live and have to rewind the 30 minutes while trying to not look at the screen and have the outcome spoiled. This gets tedious and stems from the fact that the "swap" and "live" functions share the same remote button. The workaround on the Tivo is to record everything but that creates more work since it always asks about adding time since events are live and you have to remember to delete it all to avoid clutter. Separate buttons avoid all of this.
Here's what you fail to understand - having a separate button changes nothing. The behavior you are complaining about has nothing whatever to do with the fact that the "button" does different things depending on what the status of the TiVo is. It's all in the TiVo s/w. If the TiVo is already in "live" TV, it changes the active tuner. If not , the TiVo goes to "live" TV. Remotes do not send out a series of commands that control the TiVo, they just send out a code. What the TiVo does in response to that code is controlled by the s/w. The remote has no idea what state the TiVo is in.

The behavior you are seeing is simply due to how the live buffers work and only happens if you pause it at the beginning of the buffer right before doing the swap or don't pause it at all. Otherwise, at worst you will be at the beginning of the buffer when you come back. At least that's the way it works on my 2-tuner Premieres. Maybe they changed/broke it on the 4-tuner models, but I doubt it. And before you ask, I just tested it. I positioned to the beginning of the buffer, skipped 30-secs, paused, swapped to the other tuner, waited a couple of minutes, swapped back and it was positioned at the beginning of the buffer.

What you want is for the TiVo to always return to the position it was when you hit the swap button, or the beginning of the buffer if the previous point is prior to the current beginning of the buffer. That requires a change to the TiVo s/w. Adding a button to the remote is neither necessary nor sufficient.
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Old 10-18-2013, 11:00 PM   #23
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I was spoiled by the Sony DVR, it was only a one-tuner but it had a selectable buffer, 30, 60, or 90 min. I miss this the most, now using a TiVo.. TiVo's buffer is sub-par. Anyone know a reason TiVo, even with the new Roamio, still only offers 30 min buffer?
4 90-min HD buffers require @72GB or >14% of a 500GB drive. 6 would need 108GB, >10% of a 1TB drive. Most of the time it wouldn't need all of that space for 90 mins , which is why you usually get more than 30 mins if you choose to save the active buffer, but they have to be allocated for the worst case.

BTW, this has been discussed numerous times over the years and is not really related to the OP's complaint.
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Old 10-20-2013, 11:46 PM   #24
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Here's what you fail to understand - having a separate button changes nothing. The behavior you are complaining about has nothing whatever to do with the fact that the "button" does different things depending on what the status of the TiVo is. It's all in the TiVo s/w. If the TiVo is already in "live" TV, it changes the active tuner. If not , the TiVo goes to "live" TV. Remotes do not send out a series of commands that control the TiVo, they just send out a code. What the TiVo does in response to that code is controlled by the s/w. The remote has no idea what state the TiVo is in.

The behavior you are seeing is simply due to how the live buffers work and only happens if you pause it at the beginning of the buffer right before doing the swap or don't pause it at all. Otherwise, at worst you will be at the beginning of the buffer when you come back. At least that's the way it works on my 2-tuner Premieres. Maybe they changed/broke it on the 4-tuner models, but I doubt it. And before you ask, I just tested it. I positioned to the beginning of the buffer, skipped 30-secs, paused, swapped to the other tuner, waited a couple of minutes, swapped back and it was positioned at the beginning of the buffer.

What you want is for the TiVo to always return to the position it was when you hit the swap button, or the beginning of the buffer if the previous point is prior to the current beginning of the buffer. That requires a change to the TiVo s/w. Adding a button to the remote is neither necessary nor sufficient.
Of course a separate swap button would need the necessary s/w update so it would function - otherwise it would do nothing and be pointless. Try your test again - only cycle the tuners a second time. The first time around the previously paused one will be at live minus 30. The next time it comes around it will be live. Now I see why it took so long to notice this. It only happens after the first cycle through the tuners.
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Old 10-21-2013, 01:16 AM   #25
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Of course a separate swap button would need the necessary s/w update so it would function - otherwise it would do nothing and be pointless.
You still don't get it. The s/w change is the only thing that is necessary. There is flat out no reason to add a button to the remote, and definitely reasons not to. It would be as silly as having separate buttons for "skip" and "go to the end/beginning of a list". Why do you want to clutter up the remote to no purpose?
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Try your test again - only cycle the tuners a second time. The first time around the previously paused one will be at live minus 30. The next time it comes around it will be live. Now I see why it took so long to notice this. It only happens after the first cycle through the tuners.
Here also you continue to fail to understand. It doesn't matter how many times you cycle through the tuners, if you pause it at a point other than the beginning of a full buffer before switching tuners every time you switch, when you come back to that tuner you will at worst be at the beginning of the buffer. Otherwise, you will be at the end.
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Old 10-21-2013, 12:27 PM   #26
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On the Tivo you are at live and have to rewind the 30 minutes while trying to not look at the screen and have the outcome spoiled.
Just to make sure, you are hitting rewind and then skip to tick right? That will jump back quickly. Doesn't fix your usage pattern, but might help alleviate it.
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Old 10-23-2013, 06:56 PM   #27
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Don't know how I missed that - obviously spend more time w/ Motorola DVR. Pausing only works till the back of the buffer catches up with the paused time. Then it jumps to live. It's an inferior design for anyone trying to watch multiple shows/sports events and toggle between them.
What happens on your machine when you hit the "Enter" button? I'm away from my TiVo for a few days, so can't verify it, but I think it does what you want (as long as you are only switching between 2 sports events at once.)
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Old 10-23-2013, 09:08 PM   #28
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What happens on your machine when you hit the "Enter" button? I'm away from my TiVo for a few days, so can't verify it, but I think it does what you want (as long as you are only switching between 2 sports events at once.)
a. He has an elite, so 4 tuners. b. Enter works exactly the same way as "Swap", at least on my 2 tuner Premiere.
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Old 10-23-2013, 10:03 PM   #29
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a. He has an elite, so 4 tuners. b. Enter works exactly the same way as "Swap", at least on my 2 tuner Premiere.
No, it doesn't, but it can appear to work the same.
The enter button will take you to the previously viewed channel. That channel could be on the same tuner, in which case it will change the channel on that tuner but if the previously viewed channel was on the other tuner, it will swap tuners.
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Old 10-23-2013, 10:11 PM   #30
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What happens on your machine when you hit the "Enter" button? I'm away from my TiVo for a few days, so can't verify it, but I think it does what you want (as long as you are only switching between 2 sports events at once.)
It's exactly the same behavior as the swap button
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