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Old 09-26-2013, 02:45 PM   #1
b_scott
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Do we think updates are over for Premieres?

Now that Roamio is out, is Premiere dead?
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Old 09-26-2013, 02:51 PM   #2
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There is a planned Fall update that will bring Dynamic Tuner Allocation for the Minis and should also include the new HD Wish List screens. Beyond that no one really knows. If history is any indicator I wouldn't expect many more updates. Typically they'll release maybe one feature update to the old generation and then maybe 1-2 bug fix type releases and that's it. Although it's possible this time could be different. The Premiere is capable of running the same software as the Roamio and Mini, and they have a lot of them deployed to MSO partners, so that might help keep the Premieres in the loop for a bit longer then discontinued models of the past.
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Old 09-26-2013, 03:12 PM   #3
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Now that Roamio is out, is Premiere dead?
I am still of the belief, however delusional it may be, that they will finish the Premiere HD screens someday..................... maybe the same time they finish the Roamio HD screens?
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Old 09-26-2013, 03:44 PM   #4
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If they don't fix the Netflix app on the Premiere then I will be quite dissatisfied. I used Netflix on one of my Minis for the first time last night and wow - what a difference. Flawless streaming and immediate response to remote trickplay commands, while the Premiere app only responds if and when it feels like it.
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Old 09-26-2013, 04:02 PM   #5
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Apparently the new Netflix app is still using Flash, so it's possible for it to be used on the Premiere units as well. The new YouTube app however is HTML5 and I don't think we'll ever see that ported back to the Premiere units.
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Old 09-26-2013, 04:10 PM   #6
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they have no incentive to make things better on the old systems they aren't currently marketing, IMO.
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Old 09-26-2013, 04:14 PM   #7
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If they don't fix the Netflix app on the Premiere then I will be quite dissatisfied. I used Netflix on one of my Minis for the first time last night and wow - what a difference. Flawless streaming and immediate response to remote trickplay commands, while the Premiere app only responds if and when it feels like it.
If the could improve the performance of Netflix on the Premier line, I suspect they would have some time ago. I think Netflix and Youtube are held back by an underpowered processor and they are as good as they are going to get.
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Old 09-26-2013, 04:43 PM   #8
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I agree. We'll never see a performance increase on the Premiere. It's hardware bound and there is nothing they can do about it. If you want Mini like performance you need to upgrade to a Roamio.
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Old 09-26-2013, 09:52 PM   #9
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If the could improve the performance of Netflix on the Premier line, I suspect they would have some time ago. I think Netflix and Youtube are held back by an underpowered processor and they are as good as they are going to get.
But Netflix used to at least WORK before the 20.3.1 update. Yes, it was slow but it did not have the bugs that it has now.
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Old 09-27-2013, 07:25 AM   #10
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Well, I know I'll never buy a Roamio unless they demonstrate that they can make the Premier I have work at least as well as it did before the 20.3 update introduced infinite problems with talking to the cable card. I'm not gonna spend any money for an upgrade to 6 tuners if they can't convince me they can get 2 tuners to work :-).
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Old 09-27-2013, 07:41 AM   #11
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I am one of the unlucky ones who bought the XL4 back in May and thought wow.. 4 tuners this is great! A couple months later i see comcast came out with their X1 6 tuner device and then in august the Roamio debuts. Pretty damn frustrating to think you're finally getting up to par with everyone else only to have the resale value of the XL4 nosedive (i have a monthy subscription btw).

That being said I do love the tivo brand and the community here is very friendly and helpful. To me it is all about the upsell. I am specifically waiting for DTA on the mini for premieres before I pick one up. Within a year i also plan on getting the roamio. So although i don't fit the criteria of a new customer I don't think tivo should abandon their existing user base. Try to squeeze as much as you can out of the old units and then i'm sure more people will tranisition over to the new models in time.
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Old 09-27-2013, 07:57 AM   #12
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Well, I know I'll never buy a Roamio unless they demonstrate that they can make the Premier I have work at least as well as it did before the 20.3 update introduced infinite problems with talking to the cable card. I'm not gonna spend any money for an upgrade to 6 tuners if they can't convince me they can get 2 tuners to work :-).
You may never get a Roamio then.

I jest, as this seems an odd requirement to me to need to make what you have better before you move to a better product. I expect that the issues log items from the May release will be addressed along with some new HD screens, but I would NOT expect the new update to be perfection.
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Old 09-27-2013, 10:35 AM   #13
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What if those of us that still have warranty left start using it to get them to fix the audio/video drop outs etc.?
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Old 09-27-2013, 11:01 AM   #14
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Well, I know I'll never buy a Roamio unless they demonstrate that they can make the Premier I have work at least as well as it did before the 20.3 update introduced infinite problems with talking to the cable card. I'm not gonna spend any money for an upgrade to 6 tuners if they can't convince me they can get 2 tuners to work :-).
An understandable position, however in my opinion taking that position hurts you allot more than it does TiVo. The difference between using my Roamio and my Premiere is like day and night (and I didn't dislike the Premiere). Life is just to short to use an inferior product if you don't have to.
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Old 09-27-2013, 11:48 AM   #15
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Life is just to short to use an inferior product if you don't have to.
With the cable card issues they current have on the Premiere and lots of notes in the Roamio forums about similar problems on them, I have no reason to imagine that 3 times as many tuners wouldn't mean three times as many problems :-).

I was hoping that the comcast firmware update would fix things from the other end, but I've also seen folks in these forums say they actually got a firmware update from comcast and 20.3 still shows the same problems as the old firmware.
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Old 09-27-2013, 12:07 PM   #16
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With the cable card issues they current have on the Premiere and lots of notes in the Roamio forums about similar problems on them, I have no reason to imagine that 3 times as many tuners wouldn't mean three times as many problems :-).

I was hoping that the comcast firmware update would fix things from the other end, but I've also seen folks in these forums say they actually got a firmware update from comcast and 20.3 still shows the same problems as the old firmware.
Certainly some good reasons to wait for a few updates and maybe a small price reduction but I can assure you the 2 units are amazedly different in day to day use.

I only have the base Roamio (OTA only) and have found the Roamio's performance very superior to my Premiere. In fact streaming shows from my Premiere to my Roamio is a noticeably superior experience over watching them directly on my Premiere. Not to mention that for OTA the Roamio's reception is better than all my other devices and it is much nicer (to my surprise) to have 4 tuners on one device instead of 6 tuners on 3 devices. My biggest problem now is figuring out what to do with all the shows saved on my 3 older HD TiVos (5.25TB total 99% full) so that I can sell them sometime before everyone figures out how much better the Roamios are .
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Old 09-27-2013, 01:02 PM   #17
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An understandable position, however in my opinion taking that position hurts you allot more than it does TiVo. The difference between using my Roamio and my Premiere is like day and night (and I didn't dislike the Premiere). Life is just to short to use an inferior product if you don't have to.
Depends on what "you don't have to" means.

I jumped to the Tivo HD, then the Premiere, resulting from promises by Tivo that each subsequent unit would get better. To be honest, the performance of the Premiere is hardly better than the HD - the ONLY two things the Premiere provided that I care about whatsoever were extra tuners, and streaming/MRV (which it still has problems with).

Were it little or no cost to move from my XL4s/Premieres to the Roamio, then I'd agree. However, given the cost of lifetime sub plus the unit itself, it's hardly "little or no cost". As others here have described, resale prices of Premieres/Elites/XL4s with Lifetime have dropped significantly recently. So, if the XL4 for example is only a year or so old, it's not a "reasonable" decision. On the other hand, I think it's quite reasonable to expect Tivo to support what they have already sold before throwing more money at a new solution when the old one is not working as described.
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Old 09-27-2013, 01:33 PM   #18
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Depends on what "you don't have to" means.
Everyone's situation will be different and everyone will have to decide for them selves how much upgrading to a Roamio is worth. For me if I get my lazy butt in gear my upgrade could be free has I now have a Premiere, TiVo HD, & Series 3 all with lifetime to sell to cover the $600 the Roamio cost me with lifetime. I was forced to keep both the TiVo HD & Series 3 when I bought the Premiere because the Premiere had way more reception issues and I did not feel like being short on tuners, however 4 is enough for me with OTA and the Roamio gets better reception then all of them.

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... On the other hand, I think it's quite reasonable to expect Tivo to support what they have already sold before throwing more money at a new solution when the old one is not working as described.
Agreed - but I doubt the Premiere is every going to be good at much more than being a DVR it is just to under powered and really should have been upgraded/replaced in 2011 when the 4 tuner versions came out.
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Old 09-28-2013, 03:16 AM   #19
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My Dad use to always say.... You can't turn chicken sh*t into chicken salad. That seems to apply here. The Roamio runs basically the same software as the Premiere but it's infinitely better. It's still got a few quirks but I think TiVo learned from the mistake that is the Premiere and I have great confidence that they will fix the remaining quirks going forward.

Not upgrading because your Premiere doesn't work good is definitely hurting yourself more then it's hurting TiVo. I recommend you sell your Premiere now, if you can, before prices completely fall off a cliff and buy a Roamio. You'll be a lot happier TiVo user for it.
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Old 09-28-2013, 02:22 PM   #20
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The point is that the Premiere worked pretty good before TiVo's 20.3 software release, and as you point out, the Roamio is running essentially the same software, so as long as 20.3 is hopelessly screwed up with the comcast cable cards, there is absolutely zero reason to believe a Roamio won't also be hopelessly screwed up with the same comcast cable cards.
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Old 09-29-2013, 04:18 AM   #21
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And the point of this thread is that those issues you have are more likely to get fixed on the Roamio then the Premiere. Any performance issues you have will be fixed immediately as the Roamio hardware more then makes up for any software inefficiencies. CableCARD issues might be another story, but the Roamio is running a slightly newer version of the software so it's possible your issue is already fixed. Or not. But if it's not it'll be more likely to get fixed in the Roamio first. They've already released two software updates for the Roamio and have another one planned for next week. They are frantically fixing bugs in the Roamio software while the best we can hope for on the Premiere is an aggregated update sometime this "fall".

I understand you not wanting to give any more money to a company you feel didn't address your issues, but if you just want a working TiVo ASAP you're best bet it to buy a Roamio. Yu could always pick one up and if it doesn't fix your problem you could use the 30 day return period.
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Old 09-29-2013, 11:57 AM   #22
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We better receive a "Fall Update" so I can stop receiving "Channel not Available" message when tuning to channels.
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Old 09-29-2013, 03:55 PM   #23
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I agree, but I think we might get some sort of small update and that'll be it. I dont think Tivo is going to work to fix the issues of the Premiere anymore. I even tried to Tweet and email Margret and asked her when possibly the fall update might come out, and its all been ignored. So glad March is just around the corner.
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Old 09-30-2013, 07:56 AM   #24
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We better receive a "Fall Update" so I can stop receiving "Channel not Available" message when tuning to channels.
Heck, I'd be content with a "fall back" update that restored the old pre-20.3 software, but they don't seem to be interested in even providing that.
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Old 09-30-2013, 09:31 AM   #25
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The point is that the Premiere worked pretty good before TiVo's 20.3 software release, and as you point out, the Roamio is running essentially the same software, so as long as 20.3 is hopelessly screwed up with the comcast cable cards, there is absolutely zero reason to believe a Roamio won't also be hopelessly screwed up with the same comcast cable cards.
I have comcast - what cable card issues are screwed up?
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Old 09-30-2013, 02:12 PM   #26
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Heck, I'd be content with a "fall back" update that restored the old pre-20.3 software, but they don't seem to be interested in even providing that.
What changed in 20.3 for you?
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Old 09-30-2013, 02:28 PM   #27
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What changed in 20.3 for you?
Before 20.3 I'd get a black screen or unauthorized channel maybe once every one or two months. The rumor was this was due to a firmware bug in the antique scientific atlanta cable cards comcast uses in the Boca/Delray region which have never had a firmware update.

After 20.3 I get the same errors if I channel surf through more than about 10 or 12 channels. It is incessant. I also get things like 1/2 second momentary blackouts in shows at random times. So 20.3 inflated the impact of this bug by a factor of about 1000.

There is absolutely no signal problem because I can always go to the cable card diagnostic screen and use the test channel feature to see the picture and sound coming in perfectly for a channel it just told me I couldn't get a second ago.

TiVo claims they have me on a priority update list to get the mythical update. Comcast claims they are going to roll out firmware updates in October. I'm anxiously awaiting whichever comes first to see if it has any effect :-).
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Old 09-30-2013, 06:31 PM   #28
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TiVo claims they have me on a priority update list to get the mythical update. Comcast claims they are going to roll out firmware updates in October. I'm anxiously awaiting whichever comes first to see if it has any effect :-).
A firmware update would be the better option. Expecting TiVo to work around some flaw in your CableCARD or tuning adapter, even if possible, is not really reasonable. The "fix" they put in for your flawed card could negatively effect some other card. It's a vicious cycle. You should hound your cable company to fix their broken cards, not blame TiVo for not being able to work around it.
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Old 10-02-2013, 07:55 AM   #29
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they have no incentive to make things better on the old systems they aren't currently marketing, IMO.
The incentive is my monthly subscription, or is TiVo giving away the new hardware like Verizon is? Cable Card + TiVo subscription is more than a multi-room DVR......

Been a TiVo owner since 2000, love it, still do, but tiered of halves.....

Amazon Video - Sorry not for Premier Amazon
Netflix - Rather us my AppleTV or CromeStick
New HD menus on the Premier, OMG no way I like to not wait that long between screens.
and Little to no innovation (IMHO) on the web / iOS device front. Use iPad as a keyboard, is a plus, but why can I not just see what is new Series or 'subscribe to all premier episodes' .....

I can renew my subscription, and I ASSUME that is to support R&D on MY PLATFORM, or give up on a non-supported box, and move to the one from the cable provider....

My Premier is 2 years old, and if Factor the COST of the HARDWARE + Subscription + Cable card rental, I would GIVE UP on TiVo if the stopped developing for it.

That would be In My Humble Opinion the incentive.
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Old 10-02-2013, 11:02 AM   #30
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The incentive is my monthly subscription, or is TiVo giving away the new hardware like Verizon is? Cable Card + TiVo subscription is more than a multi-room DVR......

Been a TiVo owner since 2000, love it, still do, but tiered of halves.....

Amazon Video - Sorry not for Premier Amazon
Netflix - Rather us my AppleTV or CromeStick
New HD menus on the Premier, OMG no way I like to not wait that long between screens.
and Little to no innovation (IMHO) on the web / iOS device front. Use iPad as a keyboard, is a plus, but why can I not just see what is new Series or 'subscribe to all premier episodes' .....

I can renew my subscription, and I ASSUME that is to support R&D on MY PLATFORM, or give up on a non-supported box, and move to the one from the cable provider....

My Premier is 2 years old, and if Factor the COST of the HARDWARE + Subscription + Cable card rental, I would GIVE UP on TiVo if the stopped developing for it.

That would be In My Humble Opinion the incentive.
I would suggest that you get ready to rent a DVR from your cable provider then. Sooner or later TiVo will stop development for Premiere DVRs that is a 100% given, just as it is a 100% given that TiVo will at some point also stop development for Roamio DVRs.

We know there will be a fall update for the Premieres but after that I don't expect much except bug fixes. There is only so much they can do with the Premiere's hardware and I am guessing it is pretty much maxed out know (remember the processor and basic design is from 2009).

The up side is your TiVo and every other older model will continue to function as intended for as long as the hardware lasts, so unless you want features that only new hardware can provide there really is no reason to stop using it.
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