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Old 05-19-2016, 09:17 PM   #1
dswallow
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The Blacklist 5/19/2016 (S03E23) "Alexander Kirk: Conclusion"

Granted, it was just a couple minutes before he admitted it to her himself, but I called it out to myself that Kirk was Elizabeth's father.

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Old 05-19-2016, 09:34 PM   #2
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I think we all thought, or at least hoped Liz was alive (and creds to my wife for saying early on Kate had a major hand in it) but when she appeared on screen I still got major chills!!!


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Old 05-20-2016, 07:24 AM   #3
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So, I guess the Doc was in on it all along, and they used the usual TV trope of giving her a drug to make her seem dead, but whatever. I knew as soon as they mentioned Tom going to Cuba that Liz was alive and Kirk's expression when he found out, confirmed it. Since we never heard about the actress leaving the show, this was to be expected.

I still aren't sure how Tom is going to be spun off on the new show.

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Old 05-20-2016, 11:30 AM   #4
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That Mr. Kaplan is one tricky dude. They totally Dr. McCoy/Captain Kirk'd her. The only thing missing was Spock to exclaim "Elizabeth!" so they Darth Vader'd the young Jedi instead. This show is so derivative but it's good.

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Old 05-20-2016, 12:34 PM   #5
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Knew it! (that Kirk was her father).

So my theory is that there is still uncertainty over her real father. "Kirk" is Rostov, her mother's husband, but if someone else (Red?) is really her father then Kirk may be inclined to kill her.

So Lizzie was hidden (sent to foster parents) in order to protect her from Rostov/Kirk ever finding out that she was not his biological daughter.

But wouldn't that mean the Red is the father and, then, wouldn't a simple DNA test have determined this a short time after the pilot? Unless Red is sterile and was using a donor.

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Old 05-20-2016, 01:05 PM   #6
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But wouldn't that mean the Red is the father and, then, wouldn't a simple DNA test have determined this a short time after the pilot? Unless Red is sterile and was using a donor.
If Red didn't raise her and she doesn't share his DNA, what do you mean by calling him her father?

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Old 05-20-2016, 02:05 PM   #7
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If Red didn't raise her and she doesn't share his DNA, what do you mean by calling him her father?
Maybe Red and Katarina tried to raise her together (as a baby) but could not avoid the relentless pursuit from Kirk/Rostov.


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Old 05-20-2016, 02:09 PM   #8
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So, I guess the Doc was in on it all along, and they used the usual TV trope of giving her a drug to make her seem dead, but whatever.
Yeah, of course they gave her a drug to make her seem dead, do you know of many other ways one can fake being dead?

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Old 05-20-2016, 02:12 PM   #9
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Not surprised by anything that happened. Never believed she was dead.

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Old 05-20-2016, 03:59 PM   #10
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Knew it! (that Kirk was her father).

So my theory is that there is still uncertainty over her real father. "Kirk" is Rostov, her mother's husband, but if someone else (Red?) is really her father then Kirk may be inclined to kill her.

So Lizzie was hidden (sent to foster parents) in order to protect her from Rostov/Kirk ever finding out that she was not his biological daughter.

But wouldn't that mean the Red is the father and, then, wouldn't a simple DNA test have determined this a short time after the pilot? Unless Red is sterile and was using a donor.
I don't think Reddington is her biological father but he certainly feels like her spiritual father.

There is something they are not telling us about the relationship between Reddington and Katerina.

Oh, and I'm certain that Kirk/Rostova certainly believes that he's Liz's father.
Since they showed us that he was getting medical treatment, he has (fill in the blank TV disease) that requires something from a genetic match, hence his interest in Liz then Agnes.

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Old 05-20-2016, 05:10 PM   #11
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... do you know of many other ways one can fake being dead?
I don't know, but you could ask my ex what she'd do when I got in the mood.

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Old 05-20-2016, 05:45 PM   #12
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I don't know, but you could ask my ex what she'd do when I got in the mood.
Bazinga!

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Old 05-21-2016, 11:59 AM   #13
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I don't know, but you could ask my ex what she'd do when I got in the mood.
Best. Response. Evah.

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Old 05-21-2016, 03:28 PM   #14
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I also knew Elizabeth was alive...and was expecting to see her.

(It's getting to where writers can't kill a character anymore without you "smelling" that something is up -- "Arrow", "game of thrones", etc.)

I have believed since day one that Reddington is Elizabeth's father. Why else would he go out of his way to:

a) Try to protect her;
b) Asking someone who might become President to exonerate her;
c) Try to protect her baby;
and
d) Why would Mr. Kaplan be in disagreement on how to handle Elizabeth and her daughter?

Kirk saying he's her father is pure and simple misdirection. It also opens up the narrative for Elizabeth's mother to join the TV show.

Anyway, that's my 2¢ worth.

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Old 05-21-2016, 04:50 PM   #15
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Kirkman *is* her father in that he is he was married to her mother when she was born. And it's been telegraphed that he is really sick and likely in need of a bone marrow or organ transplant, which is why he needed Lizzie. Which, of course, means that he thinks he is the real father while he probably is not.

OK, so all of the above is TV 101. So (to paraphrase Vizzini) the producers know that we know this so clearly that cannot be it.

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Old 05-21-2016, 09:08 PM   #16
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You know, I can't stand the actress who plays Elizabeth and I can't stand the way her character acts-but when she "died," I missed her..
Until she came back...then she started bugging the crap out of me again!

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Old 05-21-2016, 11:53 PM   #17
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Kirkman *is* her father in that he is he was married to her mother when she was born. And it's been telegraphed that he is really sick and likely in need of a bone marrow or organ transplant, which is why he needed Lizzie. Which, of course, means that he thinks he is the real father while he probably is not.

OK, so all of the above is TV 101. So (to paraphrase Vizzini) the producers know that we know this so clearly that cannot be it.
I was thinking it was something like that since he was so hell bent on getting her daughter when he thought Liz was dead.

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Old 05-22-2016, 07:11 AM   #18
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I'm glad they didn't string this out over the summer. From a logistics point of view it probably would have been nearly impossible to do so.

I'm not disappointed. I just hope the eventual reveal will be a little more complicated than the obvious one(s) proposed here. And if Red turns out to be her father (as we have suspected since the pilot) I hope for a nice explanation why it took so long to figure it out (i.e. why that simple DNA test was not simply done; and if it was, how was it missed).

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Old 05-26-2016, 11:51 AM   #19
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Something just occurred to me... when Tom shot Solomon, he said "this is for my wife". But we now know that he knew all along that Lizzie wasn't dead. So basically, he shot him just because he felt like it. Not that I'm necessarily objecting, but I find it interesting.


Also, this spinoff will be an interesting paradigm shift for the viewers. All this time, we've been cheering when one of Famke's redshirts got killed. Now, we're suddenly supposed to be on their side.

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Old 05-26-2016, 12:24 PM   #20
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That's what makes it interesting. They may all work for the same common goal but some of them don't really like each other (case in point Tom shooting Solomon).

Note how he did not kill him. I don't think he is such a bad shot that he could miss at that close range, so the obvious explanation is that he meant to just hurt him, not kill him. Samson deserved being shot for being a sadistic prick, but there likely was a different reason.

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Old 05-26-2016, 12:55 PM   #21
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Note how he did not kill him. I don't think he is such a bad shot that he could miss at that close range, so the obvious explanation is that he meant to just hurt him, not kill him.
I think the writers wanted him alive, but not Tom.

And it wasn't a bad shot, it was a gut shot, expressly meant to deliver a slow painful death. This wasn't like Red shooting at Scottie and purposefully giving her just a graze on the arm.

I believe Tom absolutely intended to kill Solomon, just not quickly.

Solomon just did a really good job of fighting for survival.

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Old 05-26-2016, 01:50 PM   #22
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Something just occurred to me... when Tom shot Solomon, he said "this is for my wife". But we now know that he knew all along that Lizzie wasn't dead. So basically, he shot him just because he felt like it. Not that I'm necessarily objecting, but I find it interesting.


Also, this spinoff will be an interesting paradigm shift for the viewers. All this time, we've been cheering when one of Famke's redshirts got killed. Now, we're suddenly supposed to be on their side.
I don't think we know at what point Tom became aware; besides which, "for my wife" could mean the risk and danger Solomon was responsible for, if not her death. Or maybe Tom is really into method acting.

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Old 05-26-2016, 02:36 PM   #23
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I don't think we know at what point Tom became aware
Tom was standing right there when Mr. Kaplan proposed the whole op to both of them, Liz and Tom. He was in on it from the very beginning.

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Old 05-26-2016, 03:18 PM   #24
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Tom was standing right there when Mr. Kaplan proposed the whole op to both of them, Liz and Tom. He was in on it from the very beginning.
When he shot Solomon, he knew millions of people were watching and didn't want to take the chance of one of us spilling the beans and endangering Liz.

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Old 05-26-2016, 03:25 PM   #25
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Or maybe just because Solomon ruined Lizzie's wedding day. She never got to shove cake into Tom's face or throw her bouquet or have her first dance as man-and-wife, and she won't have any wedding album to look over on those melancholy days.

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Old 05-26-2016, 03:55 PM   #26
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Or maybe just because Solomon ruined Lizzie's wedding day. She never got to shove cake into Tom's face or throw her bouquet or have her first dance as man-and-wife, and she won't have any wedding album to look over on those melancholy days.
But she'll always have the crime-scene photos!

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Old 05-26-2016, 04:04 PM   #27
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But she'll always have the crime-scene photos!
Watch for the upcoming movie, Kill Solomon! and the sequel, Kill Solomon 2!

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Old 05-28-2016, 05:38 PM   #28
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Something just occurred to me... when Tom shot Solomon, he said "this is for my wife". But we now know that he knew all along that Lizzie wasn't dead.
What did you expect? "You tried to kill my wife, but failed, so we're cool."?

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Old 05-28-2016, 05:47 PM   #29
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What did you expect? "You tried to kill my wife, but failed, so we're cool."?
Technically, Solomon did not try to kill her. He tried to kidnap her, which did put her life at risk, but his intention was not to kill her.

Interestingly, you could say Tom did not intend to kill Solomon, but he put his life at risk by shooting him in a way that is not necessarily fatal. In other words, Tom injured Solomon and put his life at risk -- in revenge for Solomon causing Liz's injury and putting her life at risk. An eye for an eye, a gut wound for a damaged uterus.

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