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Old 09-27-2013, 01:40 PM   #31
L David Matheny
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And that will be a sad day in many respects, because you will lose control over how you watch a show.
Much of what I watch now I wouldn't watch at all if I were forced to sit through all the commercials. I guess I would have more time to do other things though. We will always have the option of just saying no.
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Old 09-27-2013, 03:53 PM   #32
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Much of what I watch now I wouldn't watch at all if I were forced to sit through all the commercials.
Agreed. After using DVRs for so many years, I've come to positively loathe commercials. It's the main reason I can't stand watching stuff on Hulu.
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Old 09-27-2013, 03:57 PM   #33
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I'm surprised that Hulu doesn't offer a premium "commercial free" option for more money per month. I bet a lot of their customers would pay for it.
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Old 09-27-2013, 04:05 PM   #34
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I'm surprised that Hulu doesn't offer a premium "commercial free" option for more money per month. I bet a lot of their customers would pay for it.
Hulu would probably love to offer that, but I imagine that the networks won't allow it... at least at this time.

6mbps Super HD on Netflix. I checked it out today and it's a big improvement but on my 65" Plasma BD still looks noticeably better, especially during lots of motion, dark scenes, etc.

I agree with what slowbiscuit said. While many are cheering the idea of an "all you can eat buffet" of on-demand shows, it is highly likely that after they get everyone hooked they will jam them full of trailers, pop up ads, commercials and other things.

If I really like something I don't count on "on demand" making it available for me, I buy it on Blu-ray, rip it to MKV and store the discs in a bin in my basement.
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Old 09-27-2013, 04:13 PM   #35
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6mbps Super HD on Netflix. I checked it out today and it's a big improvement but on my 65" Plasma BD still looks noticeably better, especially during lots of motion, dark scenes, etc.
BDs typically use 25-35Mbps, so it makes sense that it looks better. What's funny is that 6Mbps is considered "Super HD". In Europe they broadcast in H.264 and they still use 8-12Mbps.
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Old 09-27-2013, 04:25 PM   #36
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6mbps Super HD on Netflix. I checked it out today and it's a big improvement but on my 65" Plasma BD still looks noticeably better, especially during lots of motion, dark scenes, etc.
When it comes to streaming, Vudu's HDX is still the one to beat. It's not quite as good as BD, but it's pretty darn impressive. Too bad it costs so much.
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Old 09-27-2013, 04:26 PM   #37
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There are only 4 major network channels (5 if you count The WB) and everything on cable repeats, so I can't imagine a situation where I'd ever need more then 6 tuners.
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Old 09-27-2013, 04:31 PM   #38
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6mbps Super HD on Netflix. I checked it out today and it's a big improvement but on my 65" Plasma BD still looks noticeably better, especially during lots of motion, dark scenes, etc
Well sure, against BD it's no contest. But for me compared to most cable "HD" it's very good.
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Old 09-27-2013, 04:31 PM   #39
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BDs typically use 25-35Mbps, so it makes sense that it looks better. What's funny is that 6Mbps is considered "Super HD". In Europe they broadcast in H.264 and they still use 8-12Mbps.
Well, it's a topic for another discussion but yes, the US broadband infrastructure is woefully inadequate for the task of streaming close to BD quality, especially as streaming becomes the 'norm'. Don't even get me started on mid viewing glitches, down-shift from HD to SD, etc... all courtesy of streaming.

H265 will help but I think that BD will survive as a format for collectors of movies and shows for at least another 5-10 years.
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Old 09-27-2013, 05:49 PM   #40
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I don't know I watch a lot of movies via VUDU in their HDX quality and they're indistinguishable from BD to my eyes. I think they use like 10Mbs.
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Old 09-27-2013, 06:27 PM   #41
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I don't know I watch a lot of movies via VUDU in their HDX quality and they're indistinguishable from BD to my eyes. I think they use like 10Mbs.
In my experience BD is still better. Also on the audio front streaming is a joke. 99% of content has 640kbps DD 5.1 at BEST. I have a $5K+ audio setup and those low bit rate audio tracks typically sound pretty crappy.
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Old 09-27-2013, 08:06 PM   #42
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I don't know I watch a lot of movies via VUDU in their HDX quality and they're indistinguishable from BD to my eyes. I think they use like 10Mbs.
VUDU does look good. I've been using Vudu since 2007 and it has improved alot since six years ago.. But if I compare Vudu directly to a BD, the difference is easy to see. But Vudu is still very good and convenient.
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Old 09-27-2013, 10:29 PM   #43
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I'm surprised that Hulu doesn't offer a premium "commercial free" option for more money per month. I bet a lot of their customers would pay for it.
I don't have a citation, but I'm fairly certain that they *claim* that they barely ever get requests for it. I sure think the guy on the Engadget HD podcast has mentioned that.

(I've said it before -- as big of a fan of Tivo as I am, I'd pay MORE than I pay now for cable, if I could just get "everything", without commercials. I put everything in quotes, since I realize there are licensing deals and it's not literally everything always.. but e.g. current shows, and at least sometimes past seasons.. I'd probably want to still have ONE OTA capable Tivo going for the few things I want to record to keep... but mostly being able to not have to deal with tuners, disk space limitations, padding, etc.. would be great.)
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Old 09-28-2013, 08:44 AM   #44
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That's because it's not the guide data that is off, it is the networks and/or local affiliates.
TiVo's guide data does not reflect reality. So it is tivos fault. They're selling a service of a trustworthy DVR. They should strive harder to provide that.

This is not a new issue. TiVo could work, perhaps through crowd sourcing, to quickly update their guide data to be accurate, rather tan chronically off by two minutes in both directions.
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Old 09-28-2013, 09:21 AM   #45
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TiVo's guide data does not reflect reality. So it is tivos fault. They're selling a service of a trustworthy DVR. They should strive harder to provide that.

This is not a new issue. TiVo could work, perhaps through crowd sourcing, to quickly update their guide data to be accurate, rather tan chronically off by two minutes in both directions.
Yeah, this way they can be off by hours.



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Old 09-28-2013, 11:05 AM   #46
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TiVo's guide data does not reflect reality. So it is tivos fault. They're selling a service of a trustworthy DVR. They should strive harder to provide that.

This is not a new issue. TiVo could work, perhaps through crowd sourcing, to quickly update their guide data to be accurate, rather tan chronically off by two minutes in both directions.
It's TiVo's fault that the scheduling data provided to them by the networks and local stations (through TMS) is inaccurate? It is not "chronically off by two minutes in both directions", at least not for most people.

"crowd sourcing"? How the heck would that help?
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Old 09-28-2013, 12:07 PM   #47
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There have been hacks that in older TiVo models implemented very acceptable methods of dealing with a couple minute differences in almost all situations. It's a shame TiVo hasn't implemented those itself. Specifically, automatically scheduling recordings a few minutes early through a few minutes later, without permitting such adjustments to cause a scheduled recording to be missed or cut. Those, plus an enhancement to permit a level of sharing between recorded videos such that a few minutes of overlapping video -- after a prior recording and before the next one, on the same channel, could be "owned" by both recordings.
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Old 09-28-2013, 12:32 PM   #48
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Well, six tuner feeds is the maximum for a single cablecard, so I don't think you guys will find a higher capacity box unless TiVo decides to make some kind of box for hard-core users that puts two cable-cards together again... or an IP delivery system comes along that can stream many, many HD streams simultaneously to a DVR.

When they do that they can also put in 1 petabyte of storage so that you can record everything on TV for several years and then pick and choose what you might eventually want to watch.
May not find a higher capacity box with cablecards but cable companies are moving forward with their own service (no matter how bad it may be). For instance, Cablevision has a whole home solution that allows you to record 10 shows at once.

What they fail to tell you is: You cannot rewind live TV, you only get a lousy 75 hours of HD recording, they story your recordings in the cloud (so there is no hard drive in your home), rewinding and fast forwarding through shows you record are terrible and lag is noticeable, you get bad pixelation because it's being sent from cloud, the Samsung boxes are not great and the cost for 3 TV's is $7 more per month than monthly cost of a TiVo Roamio and 2 mini's.

So while it sounds good on commercials and in principle, the negatives of that far outweigh the positive and TiVo is way ahead of the game.
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Old 09-28-2013, 07:01 PM   #49
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It comes down to how much consumers care about quality, and if Hulu is any indication the answer is "not much".
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Old 09-28-2013, 08:18 PM   #50
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It's TiVo's fault that the scheduling data provided to them by the networks and local stations (through TMS) is inaccurate? It is not "chronically off by two minutes in both directions", at least not for most people.

"crowd sourcing"? How the heck would that help?

It's TiVo fault that they give incorrect data to their customers. They should be reviewing and correcting data it before passing it on for DVR scheduling.

I've encountered a few shows that are off by a couple minutes, for multiple seasons. (Fox seems particularly bad about this) but its a consistent thing , and should be booked into the guide data. And there's also the problem of sports and presidential speeches that delay shows; Tivo should be pushing out guide updates to account for those delays.

What might they do? First, focus on prime time network show. Prioritize by most popular and make sure guide data matches actual broadcast times in major markets. Fix it if its off by a half a minute. That's the difference between enjoying a show and yelling at the stupid TiVo for ruining the ending.

They could review users' season pass data. If people tend to pad recordings of a show, that probably means that shows guide data is wrong. So make a fix. And implement that fix for the next season automatically.

Looking to the next gen TiVo, I'd like to see realtime push data. If potus is speechifying, push revised guide data to me immediately. Football shouldnt cause The Good Wife to be missed. I get email and texts within seconds of them being sent; there's no reason TiVo can't get me updates sooner than two weeks after its too late.
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Old 09-28-2013, 09:41 PM   #51
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...

I'm definitely guilty of watching TV too much as well. I just fear one day we will have 2,000+ channels, 20 Tuner boxes and get our direct fix by plugging in a cord Matrix style in the back of our head lol.
Hey, how did you know about the new TiVo Series Six they're working on?!?!?! You must be part of the "Super Secret Squirrel Beta program"!
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Old 09-28-2013, 09:50 PM   #52
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...Football shouldn't cause The Good Wife to be missed...
And you call yourself "ShoutingMAN"? Sheesh
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Old 09-29-2013, 12:46 AM   #53
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It's TiVo fault that they give incorrect data to their customers. They should be reviewing and correcting data it before passing it on for DVR scheduling.

I've encountered a few shows that are off by a couple minutes, for multiple seasons. (Fox seems particularly bad about this) but its a consistent thing , and should be booked into the guide data. And there's also the problem of sports and presidential speeches that delay shows; Tivo should be pushing out guide updates to account for those delays.

What might they do? First, focus on prime time network show. Prioritize by most popular and make sure guide data matches actual broadcast times in major markets. Fix it if its off by a half a minute. That's the difference between enjoying a show and yelling at the stupid TiVo for ruining the ending.

They could review users' season pass data. If people tend to pad recordings of a show, that probably means that shows guide data is wrong. So make a fix. And implement that fix for the next season automatically.

Looking to the next gen TiVo, I'd like to see realtime push data. If potus is speechifying, push revised guide data to me immediately. Football shouldnt cause The Good Wife to be missed. I get email and texts within seconds of them being sent; there's no reason TiVo can't get me updates sooner than two weeks after its too late.

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Old 09-29-2013, 01:26 AM   #54
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There are only 4 major network channels (5 if you count The WB) and everything on cable repeats, so I can't imagine a situation where I'd ever need more then 6 tuners.
The Olympics.

YMMV.
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Old 09-29-2013, 05:24 AM   #55
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How many different channels broadcast the olympics simultaneously? More then 6.They're going to be on in the middle of the night because of the time difference so I can't imagine they'll conflict with anything other then themselves.
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Old 09-29-2013, 07:43 AM   #56
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Six tuners is more than enough for my household, but I can see a situation where large households, with multiple Mini's, it could reduce the number of available tuners to below a comfortable level.
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Old 09-29-2013, 06:00 PM   #57
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I thought about a long, lengthy, well thought out reply, discussing all the issues SMan raises, but I see you beat me to it.


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Old 09-30-2013, 12:34 AM   #58
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I think eight tuners would be perfect for me based on the conflicts I'm still seeing. But I wouldn't want to go back to paying for another cable card. I still can't believe I used to have eight of them on FiOS(and two on Comcast) It's so much better now having to pay for only one cable card.
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Old 09-30-2013, 04:27 AM   #59
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I had 6 at one point, now I'm down to 3. But I really don't need one of them. I have it in a Premiere, but that Premiere has been relegated to recording only analog channels so I don't actually need it. But Charter only charges $1.50/mo for them so it's really not a big deal.
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