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Old 09-16-2013, 09:33 PM   #1
skid71
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New Owner Questions

I'm a pretty excited soon-to-be new TiVo owner. Just placed our order for a Pro and 2 Mini's through WeaKnees.

I hope some of the seasoned TiVo owners wouldn't mind helping a plebe out with a few questions.

#1 What is the optimal procedure for setting up the Roamio and Mini's? Connect coax to the Roamio (without cablecard), go through guided setup, then insert the CC and pair with Comcast? Do I do this with the Mini's connected or not? This is kind of a large, encompassing question, just unsure of how to go about it.

#2 One Mini will be connected to a MoCA adapter. This particular adapter is connected to our modem. (a) Is there any kind of MoCA setup type screen on the Mini that I need to be aware of? The Roamio Pro will be connected via coax only at another location. My assumption is that the Roamio will not need to be connected to another MoCA adapter. (b) Is this correct?

#3 If #2(b) is correct, how do I need to setup the Roamio Pro, in regards to the network/MoCA screen? I do plan on connecting an ethernet cable from the Pro to a switch for expanded internet connectivity (if that matters).

#4 I plan on getting lifetime service on the Pro and the Mini's. When should/does this need to be done?

#5 I have the Comcast cable card phone number ready to go. What am I forgetting or need to know?

I sincerely appreciate the help. I can't wait for this weekend to get here.

Skid
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Old 09-16-2013, 10:01 PM   #2
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The Guided Setup on each of the devices will guide you through everything step but step, but in general...

1. Might as well connect the Cablecard from the start. You might not get any channels until it's activated though. (Don't try to activate the cablecard until after the Tivo's Guided Setup process.) Force a couple service connections on the Roamio to make sure it has the latest software version and TV guide information. (You'll find how to do this in the Settings menus.)

Activate the Minis online ASAP as the instructions will say, but hold off on going through their Guided Setup process until after the Roamio is up and running, because they will require the Roamio to be fully functioning first. The service activation process can sometimes take a while (sometimes 24 hours) and the Minis and Roamio might not all play nice until Tivo's servers finally catch up to all 3 service activations.

#2 The moca adapter connected to your modem and router is establishing the moca network for the whole house. The Mini and Roamio Pro have moca built-in. They won't need their own adapters... just a coax cable.

#3 The networking stuff will be part of the Guided Setup of each device. Just make sure your moca adapter is connected correctly to the modem and router in advance, and things will hopefully go smoothly.

#4 You can do it during online activation if you want.

#5 The "out of box" experience can be a bit of a pain in the butt, from the initial software update that can take an hour to the (sometimes) 24 hour wait for device activations to kick in that allow everything to work as it should (specifically the Minis). But it's worth the hassle once it's done. So I guess I would say don't forget to have patience.

Last edited by BigJimOutlaw : 09-16-2013 at 10:21 PM.
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Old 09-16-2013, 10:09 PM   #3
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BJO,
Thanks for taking the time to respond.

Just to make sure I don't mess things up. Where one of the Mini's will be placed there is a MoCA adapter. You're saying that I won't even need that adapter? Just the coax connection to the Pro will suffice? Man, if this is true, I'll be able to remove all three MoCA adapters currently in use.

Sorry to be redundant, just trying to prepare for a (hopefully) smooth installation.

Thanks again!
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Old 09-16-2013, 10:27 PM   #4
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In your original post, you mentioned that the moca adapter is connected to your modem. The ethernet port on that adapter needs to be connected to your router to establish the moca network. See the illustration below.

Then, since the Minis and Roamio Plus/Pro have moca support built-in, adapters are not needed behind those particular devices. You only need the one adapter at the router/modem to establish the moca network.



Last edited by BigJimOutlaw : 09-16-2013 at 10:48 PM.
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Old 09-16-2013, 10:28 PM   #5
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Just to make sure I don't mess things up. Where one of the Mini's will be placed there is a MoCA adapter. You're saying that I won't even need that adapter? Just the coax connection to the Pro will suffice? Man, if this is true, I'll be able to remove all three MoCA adapters currently in use.
The Roamio Pro has the ability to create a moca network on the coaxial line. The other half of creating the moca network on the Pro is that you have wireless or preferrably wired ethernet at that spot. If you do, then your moca network set.

Also the minis can already be moca clients and therefore won't need moca adapters.
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Old 09-17-2013, 09:05 AM   #6
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BJO,
Thanks for taking the time to respond.

Just to make sure I don't mess things up. Where one of the Mini's will be placed there is a MoCA adapter. You're saying that I won't even need that adapter? Just the coax connection to the Pro will suffice? Man, if this is true, I'll be able to remove all three MoCA adapters currently in use.

Sorry to be redundant, just trying to prepare for a (hopefully) smooth installation.

Thanks again!
As BJO indicated, the Minis and the Roamio Plus/Pro each have their own integrated MoCA. In the case of the Plus/Pro that adapter can either be a MoCA client (like the Mini) or it can be a MoCA host to form a MoCA bridge with another network connection. If you already have a MoCA adapter at your primary router location then you won't need any other ones. If you have ethernet to your Roamio location then you don't need any other MoCA adapters at all as the Roamio can do what your MoCA adapter at the router is already doing.

As far as setup goes, since the units are coming from Weaknees I have no idea if they are already activated with TiVo when you receive them. What I would personally recommend doing is activate the service on all devices first. Then go through the guided setup on the Roamio.

Once guided setup on the Roamio is completed then I would tackle the guided setup on each Mini using MoCA for the networking. Keep in mind that some people in the Mini forum have been reporting that there is currently an issue with Minis not seeing host Roamio, they don't seem to be picking up that the host Roamio is fully activated and TiVo is investigating it.
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Old 09-17-2013, 09:43 AM   #7
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Thanks again for the responses. It's greatly appreciated.

When placing the Roamio Pro in it's location, I'll be removing a MoCA adapter, and losing the ethernet connection at that location. Therefore I will need to keep the MoCA adapter at the location next to the modem and wireless router. I'll refer to the diagram above to ensure I have it connected properly.

With this in mind, I would like to be able to connect an ethernet cable from the Roamio Pro to a switch to provide internet connectivity to a few other devices. Is this possible with the above layout?

Considering the possibility that the Mini's will not be able to "see" the Roamio Pro, should I get the Pro set up first, then after 24 hours and a few connections to the mother ship by the Pro, set the Mini's up at that time?

I'm not sure if the Pro and the Mini's will be registered/activated from WeaKnees or not, my assumption is that they won't be.

Not looking forward to the Comcast call dealing with unpairing the card I have now and pairing with the TiVo. Not to mention the possibility of dealing with wonky VOD issues. Oh well, at least it won't be boring.
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Old 09-17-2013, 09:52 AM   #8
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Pairing with Comcast is pretty painless these days. Make sure you have a compatible multi-stream cable-card and call the dedicated cable-card hotline at Comcast instead of calling regular tech support.

I am confused about your Roamio Pro comment. You say that you will be losing ethernet at that location as it is provided by a MoCA adapter, but you want to run ethernet to the Roamio Pro to provide ethernet to more devices with a switch at that location.

The Roamio Pro can either be a MoCA client and get its internet connectivity from a MoCA adapter somewhere in your LAN or it can be a MoCA bridge in which you connect it to Ethernet and then turn on its MoCA bridge function and retire all other MoCA bridges in your home. It will then provide MoCA to all Minis and probably any other MoCA clients (other MoCA adapters you still need, etc).

I don't think it would be advisable to try to run two MoCA networks simultaneously in your home.

If you will have an Ethernet switch with a connection back to the rest of the LAN, then what I would recommend you do is simply plug both Ethernet and Coax to the Pro and turn on the MoCA bridge, then remove all other MoCA adapters from your network. Mini has built in MoCA client and will be network connected that way. One advantage of doing this is a little bit of power savings as the Pro probably won't pull much (any) more juice when doing MoCA versus the 5-10 watts that each of your MoCA adapters probably use.
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Old 09-17-2013, 10:04 AM   #9
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With this in mind, I would like to be able to connect an ethernet cable from the Roamio Pro to a switch to provide internet connectivity to a few other devices. Is this possible with the above layout?
Yes, this is possible. I currently have my PS3 connected to my network via the Roamio Plus' ethernet port. The Plus is connected to the network via MoCA.

You should be able to connect a switch to the Roamio and connect multiple devices.
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Old 09-17-2013, 01:29 PM   #10
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Apologies for beating this dead horse. Just want to make sure I get it right.

Can I plug in (only) the coax cable into the Roamio Pro to create the MoCA network? Or does it need an ethernet connection as well?

Current setup
Location #1
MoCA adapter(a) is connected to the modem via coax, and wireless router via ethernet cable.

This will be a Mini location


Location #2
MoCA adapter(b) is connected to a switch via ethernet cable. This connection provides connectivity to some components in the theater room.

This will be the Roamio Pro location.


I have thoroughly confused myself. I guess my question at this point would be what do I need at what location to ensure a properly working MoCA network and the internet connectivity desired at Location #2.

Again, big thanks for all of your help.

Skid
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Old 09-17-2013, 01:35 PM   #11
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Apologies for beating this dead horse. Just want to make sure I get it right.

Can I plug in (only) the coax cable into the Roamio Pro to create the MoCA network? Or does it need an ethernet connection as well?

Current setup
Location #1
MoCA adapter(a) is connected to the modem via coax, and wireless router via ethernet cable.

This will be a Mini location


Location #2
MoCA adapter(b) is connected to a switch via ethernet cable. This connection provides connectivity to some components in the theater room.

This will be the Roamio Pro location.


I have thoroughly confused myself. I guess my question at this point would be what do I need at what location to ensure a properly working MoCA network and the internet connectivity desired at Location #2.

Again, big thanks for all of your help.

Skid
All you need is:
Location 1: Moca adapter connected by ethernet to your router. Modem, Moca adapter and Mini all connected by coax to the wall; daisy-chained or using a splitter.
Location 2: Roamio connected by coax to the wall.

Or if you prefer to use your ethernet connection between the two locations, then:
Location1: Modem and Mini connected by coax to the wall, daisy chained or using a splitter.
Location 2: Roamio connected by coax to wall. Roamio connected by ethernet to existing ethernet network.

Last edited by Scooby Doo : 09-17-2013 at 01:48 PM.
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Old 09-17-2013, 01:45 PM   #12
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Why does he even need a MoCA adapter at location 1? If he connects the Roamio via both Ethernet and Coax it should be the only MoCA bridge he needs in the entire network.
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Old 09-17-2013, 02:44 PM   #13
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jmpage2,

At location #2 I currently have a MoCA adapter that is connected to a switch by ethernet cable. This is what provides internet connectivity at this location now, but when the Pro arrives, I plan on eliminating the MoCA adapter, thereby losing the capability to use the Pro to create the MoCA network (since I believe the Pro has to be connected not only to the coax, but ethernet cable as well).

I *think* this is right, but it's still a bit cloudy.
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Old 09-17-2013, 02:49 PM   #14
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Why does he even need a MoCA adapter at location 1? If he connects the Roamio via both Ethernet and Coax it should be the only MoCA bridge he needs in the entire network.
I eliminated a desktop computer from where the Roamio Pro is going to be. If that ethernet cable (that was previously connected to the desktop) is still "hot/active" then I can eliminate the MoCA adapter from Location #1 and have the Roamio Pro create the MoCA network.

I'm about ready to stab myself in the eye with an unused remote.
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Old 09-17-2013, 03:22 PM   #15
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I eliminated a desktop computer from where the Roamio Pro is going to be. If that ethernet cable (that was previously connected to the desktop) is still "hot/active" then I can eliminate the MoCA adapter from Location #1 and have the Roamio Pro create the MoCA network.

I'm about ready to stab myself in the eye with an unused remote.
Well, unfortunately this stuff gets more complicated than it should be when you start mixing multiple types of networks (wired ethernet, wifi, MoCA) and don't have a good handle on how things work. This also makes me very happy that the house I bought 8 years ago was completely wired with ethernet drops all over the place as well as the ability to lay new cable runs down the road if needed.

I'm assuming that when you refer to "wifi" from your cable modem that this device functions as a router for your home network and hands out IP addresses not only to the Wi-Fi devices you have but your wired ethernet as well?

Assuming that this is the case, then there is no mystery if a cable is "hot" or "not". If that cable connects to a network switch which has a connection to your router (or connects to the routers own network ports) then the cable is "hot" and the Roamio should get an IP address and can construct the MoCA bridge for all of the other MoCA devices in the home. All MoCA devices can then be retired.

Don't stab yourself with a remote. People have tried that and all it achieves is lots of bruising.
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Old 09-17-2013, 06:15 PM   #16
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All you need is:
Location 1: Moca adapter connected by ethernet to your router. Modem, Moca adapter and Mini all connected by coax to the wall; daisy-chained or using a splitter.
Location 2: Roamio connected by coax to the wall.

...snip
Going to have to go with this route. When I remove the MoCA adapter from Location #2 (Roamio Pro location) then I no longer have an ethernet connection to plug into the Roamio Pro. It's either this or put the Roamio Pro in location #1 (behind a flat panel above the fireplace)

With that being said, when setting up the Roamio Pro, (connected via coax only using existing MoCA network) what would be my network choice for the Roamio?

Using this connection scenario, can I still connect the Roamio Pro to a switch to provide internet connectivity to the switch (and the components connected to the switch)?

I can almost see a little daylight at the end of this.

Thanks so much again for all the help.

Skid
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Old 09-17-2013, 06:19 PM   #17
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If the Roamio Pro is going to be a MoCA client then no, it cannot connect to an ethernet switch and provide network connectivity for additional devices.

As far as setup, if you have a MoCA adapter connected to your router that is dishing out connections to other MoCA adapters then the Roamio should see this and obtain an IP address via MoCA when you run the guided setup.
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Old 09-17-2013, 06:28 PM   #18
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If the Roamio Pro is going to be a MoCA client then no, it cannot connect to an ethernet switch and provide network connectivity for additional devices.
Yes it can. The ethernet/Moca bridge in the Pro works in either direction.
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Old 09-17-2013, 07:43 PM   #19
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Yes it can. The ethernet/Moca bridge in the Pro works in either direction.
If true (not doubting you) this would provide another viable solution. I'm giving serious consideration to placing the Roamio Pro in location #1 and relying on the Pro to create the MoCA network.

Scooby, are you certain the Roamio can be used as you described?
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Old 09-17-2013, 07:53 PM   #20
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Yes it can. The ethernet/Moca bridge in the Pro works in either direction.
That is very surprising to me, but sounds like you are pretty sure of it. From a technical perspective there is no reason it could not be implemented that way, it just seemed unlikely that TiVo would have done it.
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Old 09-17-2013, 08:34 PM   #21
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Yeah, I'm sure. I use this setup myself, as do several others on this forum. I have a router and Moca adapter together in the attic, feeding a Mini in the bedroom and Plus in the family room over coax. I then use the ethernet from the Plus to feed an Apple TV and BluRay by ethernet through a switch. Works great!

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Old 09-17-2013, 09:02 PM   #22
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Yeah, I'm sure. I use this setup myself, as do several others on this forum. I have a router and Moca adapter together in the attic, feeding a Mini in the bedroom and Plus in the family room over coax. I then use the ethernet from the Plus to feed an Apple TV and BluRay by ethernet through a switch. Works great!
This is great news. Thanks for the confirmation. Did you have your Plus setup as a MoCA client or bridge in setup?

Do you think the Mini would work behind a tv or is line of sight a necessity? The remote that is.
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Old 09-17-2013, 09:49 PM   #23
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This sometimes happens when too many people are helpful. They mean well but it creates confusion. Lol.

I'll bottom-line it: If you have a moca adapter at the router/modem location and the Pro is set up to use that moca network, the Pro's ethernet port CAN be used to daisy chain other devices or a switch. (My blu-ray player is connected to my Roamio Plus, for example.) The Plus/Pro is a moca client in this case. (In case you were wondering, the Mini ethernet port can't be used for other devices, just the DVR's can.)

The Mini remote might work with it behind the TV if the IR can bounce off the wall behind the TV or something, but otherwise it'll need line of sight or an IR adapter. Tivo sells an IR adapter on their site if you want to hide the Mini. They also sell wall/TV mount/IR adapter kits if you prefer:

https://tivo.com/shop/detail/ir-adapter
https://tivo.com/shop/detail/ir-adapter-wall

Last edited by BigJimOutlaw : 09-17-2013 at 09:58 PM.
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Old 09-17-2013, 09:55 PM   #24
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This sometimes happens when too many people are helpful. They mean well but it creates confusion. Lol.

I'll bottom-line it: If you have a moca adapter at the router/modem location and the Pro is set up to use that moca network, the Pro's ethernet port CAN be used to daisy chain other devices or a switch. (My blu-ray player is connected to my Roamio Plus, for example.) The Plus/Pro is a moca client in this case. (In case you were wondering, the Mini ethernet port can't be used for other devices, just the DVR's can.)

The Mini remote might work behind the TV if the IR can bounce off the wall behind the TV or something, but otherwise it'll need line of sight, or an IR adapter. Tivo sells one on their site if you want to hide the Mini. They all sell wall/TV mount/IR adapter kits:

https://tivo.com/shop/detail/ir-adapter
https://tivo.com/shop/detail/ir-adapter-wall
Much, much appreciated Sir. Now I just have to wait for delivery. I'll probably be back asking more questions. Thanks again BJO.
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Old 09-17-2013, 10:09 PM   #25
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Much, much appreciated Sir. Now I just have to wait for delivery. I'll probably be back asking more questions. Thanks again BJO.
No sweat. To answer your other questions from this morning... You'll have to activate the boxes yourself. Activate all of them online asap (you'll select your payment option here too), and then physically setup the Pro first since the Minis will need a fully functioning "Host" to work.
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Old 09-17-2013, 10:27 PM   #26
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I figured I'd need an IR blaster for my mini resting behind a tv mounted on the wall, but as it turned out, my remote could hit the mini just fine without it. I put the mini right above the tv mounting bracket, facing up, with the front just a couple inches below the top of the tv. I'm glad it worked out that way, because the mini only has one usb port and I'm planning to eventually move my slide remote (which also requires a usb port) to that tv when the new slide comes out.
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Old 09-18-2013, 09:21 AM   #27
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No sweat. To answer your other questions from this morning... You'll have to activate the boxes yourself. Activate all of them online asap (you'll select your payment option here too), and then physically setup the Pro first since the Minis will need a fully functioning "Host" to work.
After going through Guided Setup on the Pro, should I wait 24 hours before connecting and going through Guided Setup on the Mini's?
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Old 09-18-2013, 09:27 AM   #28
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After going through Guided Setup on the Pro, should I wait 24 hours before connecting and going through Guided Setup on the Mini's?
If you have activated service on all of them ahead of time (24 hours in advance) that really should not be necessary. Having said that, sometimes you need to do force reconnects and reboots on host TiVo and Minis to get things working properly.
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Old 09-18-2013, 10:28 AM   #29
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Yes it can. The ethernet/Moca bridge in the Pro works in either direction.
This is true but when I connected my HDTV to the Roamio Ethernet port the HDTV connected without problems, but when I went to the Roamio view network it did not show the MoCA connection diag, just the Ethernet information, I like to see the number of MoCA connections and power for each so I connected my HDTV by its built in WiFi and removed the Roamio Ethernet and now can see all the MoCA information on the Roamio.
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Old 09-18-2013, 03:09 PM   #30
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Sorry if this is covered elsewhere, I could not find the answer easily searching the forums or the net.

What version of the MoCA spec is the Roamio? the 1.1 270 Mb/s spec or the 2.0 400+ Mb/s spec?

Thanks.
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