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Old 02-05-2012, 09:54 AM   #1
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TiVo Advisors Panel Survey

I thought some of you would like to know that in the February 2012 TiVo's Advisor's Panel Survey (released today/yesterday), they asked one very interesting question, something like: "Over the past few weeks, what have you found particularly pleasing and/or particularly frustrating about using your Premiere?" And it was a free-type question.

Seems they are asking for feedback about the 20.2 update (without directly saying that). I have been on the Panel for a long time and have never seen them ask about a particular update before. I should have copied my answer, but essentially listed my highest recent positives as: performance improvements (letting me finally use the HDUI), the new guide, the Discovery Bar is less irritating, and the new Android application. And my highest recent negatives as: Slower to load "My shows", slow to delete programs, inability to delete some programs, and Android app being slow to start and not tablet optimized.

I am glad to see TiVo asking some relevant questions. I have almost taken myself off the Advisor's list because some surveys were nothing but or mostly marketing questions about things totally unrelated to TiVo or the Premiere. Some of the questions were unusually "prying", too (I think I even had to abort one survey where there was no opt-out for the question).

For more information about the Advisors Panel or to apply to be a member, see: http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/67
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Old 02-05-2012, 04:32 PM   #2
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I just answered the February 2012 survey. Many more questions than usual. My "frustrations" were directed at the discovery bar. I think they should have an option in the menus to disable it. After the positive/negative question, they went on to ask questions about the discovery bar! So I repeated my suggestion.

What I would like is a way to block shows from viewing and recording by their name. It should be under the Parental Controls. This way, parents don't have to rely on what some TV industry hack thinks is appropriate for children. When they ask about features, it's the only one I mention.
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Old 02-05-2012, 04:46 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by TooMuchTime View Post
I just answered the February 2012 survey. Many more questions than usual. My "frustrations" were directed at the discovery bar. I think they should have an option in the menus to disable it. After the positive/negative question, they went on to ask questions about the discovery bar! So I repeated my suggestion.
I didn't mention in my post, but where I did say the Discovery Bar was less annoying, I did have to add, in parens, that I still want to be able to disable it completely
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Old 02-05-2012, 06:35 PM   #4
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Did the message that you agree to not share what questions were asked on the survey come up on your computer?
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Old 02-05-2012, 07:11 PM   #5
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Did the message that you agree to not share what questions were asked on the survey come up on your computer?
I don't remember being told that/reading that anywhere. There is no mention of the content being confidential in their policy: http://www3.tivo.com/abouttivo/polic...on_policy.html In any case, I didn't share anything verbatim, and only talked about one question, and I don't think it was anything strategic or would be needed to keep secret.

You might be thinking of the beta program? In that, TiVo requires confidentiality (and I have participated in that, too, in the past).
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Old 02-05-2012, 08:24 PM   #6
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Under the recent pleasing/frustrating, the only negative I mentioned was the loss of captions at 1xFF. I made it very clear how much I missed it.

The Advisors Panel is not confidential. It's not a beta test, and there is no NDA.
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Old 02-05-2012, 10:56 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by crxssi View Post
I don't remember being told that/reading that anywhere. There is no mention of the content being confidential in their policy: http://www3.tivo.com/abouttivo/polic...on_policy.html In any case, I didn't share anything verbatim, and only talked about one question, and I don't think it was anything strategic or would be needed to keep secret.

You might be thinking of the beta program? In that, TiVo requires confidentiality (and I have participated in that, too, in the past).
This is a screen you should have seen before starting the survey.



Note the second bullet point.

Don't fret, it's obviously not a NDA issue. However, there is the threat that TiVo will discontinue the surveys if they feel that TMI is being disseminated.
Hopefully that doesn't apply to the TiVo Community forum.
There's another thread dedicated to the TiVo surveys here:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=463241
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:35 PM   #8
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I enjoy the surveys when they are actually about Tivo.
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:41 PM   #9
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Just entered my answers.

I didn't use HD menus (didn't have an HD set) prior to 20.2, so it was all new to me right then. I quickly decided that the discovery bar wasn't relevant or helpful, and turned off everything but shows in My Shows, and Suggestions. It bugged me that Amazon, and Hulu showed up in searches when I don't have accounts on them, so I turned them off too.

After that I found the HD menus got a lot quicker.
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Old 02-06-2012, 10:41 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by crxssi View Post
I don't remember being told that/reading that anywhere. There is no mention of the content being confidential in their policy: http://www3.tivo.com/abouttivo/polic...on_policy.html In any case, I didn't share anything verbatim, and only talked about one question, and I don't think it was anything strategic or would be needed to keep secret.

You might be thinking of the beta program? In that, TiVo requires confidentiality (and I have participated in that, too, in the past).
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve614 View Post
This is a screen you should have seen before starting the survey.



Note the second bullet point.

Don't fret, it's obviously not a NDA issue. However, there is the threat that TiVo will discontinue the surveys if they feel that TMI is being disseminated.
Hopefully that doesn't apply to the TiVo Community forum.
There's another thread dedicated to the TiVo surveys here:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=463241
Yeah they added that screen after the survey about what we now know as the Q/Elite.
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Old 02-29-2012, 02:08 PM   #11
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I just took the latest survey (received an e-mail invite). I was struck by one of the early questions:

(emphasis mine)
Quote:
TiVo offers a new HD product that works with cable and over-the-air antenna, with more recording capacity and tuners (to permit recording more shows at the same time).

The new product is:
* TiVo Premiere Elite - records up to 300 hours in HD, can record four programs at the same time.

Prior to today, have you heard of TiVo Premiere Elite?
Yes, I have heard of TiVo Premiere Elite (300 hours HD, 4 shows at once)
No, I have not heard of TiVo Premiere Elite
At the end of the survey, in the final comments question, I noted that the Elite in fact has no over-the-air capability. Yet another indication of sloppiness on the part of TiVo.

Then there was the question about keeping TiVo or Internet access. A TiVo Premiere with no Internet access. Yeah, that would work real well.
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Old 02-29-2012, 02:51 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by lpwcomp View Post
I just took the latest survey (received an e-mail invite). I was struck by one of the early questions:

(emphasis mine)
At the end of the survey, in the final comments question, I noted that the Elite in fact has no over-the-air capability. Yet another indication of sloppiness on the part of TiVo.
It's not sloppy. It's intentional. Most people with OTA only aren't going to need four tuners. They only have a handful of channels. The likelihood that they are ever going to use all four tuners at the same time is slim.
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Old 02-29-2012, 03:04 PM   #13
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I'm not talking about the lack of OTA capability in the Elite. I'm talking about the question itself, which says that the new product(the Elite) has OTA capability when it categorically does not.
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Old 02-29-2012, 03:57 PM   #14
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I'm not talking about the lack of OTA capability in the Elite. I'm talking about the question itself, which says that the new product(the Elite) has OTA capability when it categorically does not.
Maybe TiVo wants to find out if they need an Elite-2 that does do OTA and cable.
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Old 02-29-2012, 04:07 PM   #15
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Maybe TiVo wants to find out if they need an Elite-2 that does do OTA and cable.
That would interest me. Losing over the air, even though I have cable, is not something I would want to do.
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Old 02-29-2012, 04:21 PM   #16
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Maybe TiVo wants to find out if they need an Elite-2 that does do OTA and cable.
If that were truly the object of the question, it would have been phrased much differently. I think it far more likely that the survey was developed by some independent organization and was not properly vetted by TiVo. As I said, sloppy.
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Old 02-29-2012, 09:24 PM   #17
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It's not sloppy. It's intentional. Most people with OTA only aren't going to need four tuners. They only have a handful of channels. The likelihood that they are ever going to use all four tuners at the same time is slim.
I 100% disagree with you. I need the tuners FOR THE OTA channels MORE than I do for other channels, since most of the non-OTA stations I record repeat their shows within the same week.

OK, it's really the on-cable-versions-of-the-broadcast-networks, but the sentiment is the same. I have the conflicts mostly with broadcast shows.

Even though I don't use OTA now, I would be more tempted to get an Elite sooner if it had OTA... as a fallback plan.. I still am somewhat tempted and am waiting for a price drop.
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Old 03-01-2012, 07:05 AM   #18
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I too would have considered purchasing an Elite to replace my Premiere rather than buying a second Premiere had OTA been covered.

I am OTA and have ample opprotunity to use 4 tuners. There are many more channels available than there once were in the analog days.
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:05 AM   #19
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Based on several posts in this thread I think I will make several comments. For the record I am OTA only, have 3 HD TiVos with a total of 5.25 TBs of storage and only 1 TV.

First there are plenty of times I am recording 3 or 4 shows at the same time, so for me having at least 4 tuners available is necessary.

On the question about if TiVo should build an OTA 4 tuner DVR my opinion is no they should not. In my opinion the market would be too small to justify the costs. I would not be interested in one at the current Elite cost structure and I am certainly a person who a 4 tuner OTA DVR would work well for.

For OTA the main benefit of a 4 tuner DVR is having 4 tuners to deal with conflict resolution. Honestly for OTA it isn't that hard to split recordings between multiple DVRs as there are no issues moving recordings around between DVRs, of course 4 tuners in one DVR would still make it easier.

For OTA you don't rent cable cards or tuning adapters so there are no cost savings in those areas for 1 DVR versus 2.

On the plus side (a BIG plus in my mind) for multiple DVRs versus 1 DVR is redundancy plus you can end up with more in DVR storage if you don't mind upgrading the DVR's hard drive. Also for people with multiple TVs you remove the need for something like the forth coming IP STP by having multiple DVRs.

For OTA people like me who only have one TV you only need one Premiere to have all the Premieres features as your second (or third) DVR only needs to be any Series 3 unit.

So the costs for multiple DVRs for OTA people can easily be less than one 4 Tuner DVR at current pricing.

Thanks,
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Old 03-01-2012, 03:47 PM   #20
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On the question about if TiVo should build an OTA 4 tuner DVR my opinion is no they should not. [...]
For OTA the main benefit of a 4 tuner DVR is having 4 tuners to deal with conflict resolution. [...] For OTA you don't rent cable cards or tuning adapters so there are no cost savings in those areas for 1 DVR versus 2.
Just because you currently use/have cable doesn't mean you can't benefit from OTA tuners:

1) OTA for network TV is far superior than what is offered on most cable companies. The bitrates are usually much, much higher, resulting in a better picture. So you can turn off the stations on your cable lineup that are available OTA and end up with a better lineup.

2) If cable goes down, OTA can still provide video on at least the broadcast/network TV.

3) If you change your mind and later want to cancel cable and have no OTA capability, your Elite would be a boat anchor.

4) TiVo can benefit by having a single model instead of multiple models, all with the same capability. It means less inventory, easier support, and lower costs.

All are valid reasons why I want BOTH cable and OTA in any TiVo I purchase. Of course, I am probably in the minority. As I said before, I think TiVo should discontinue the low-end Premiere model and turn the XL into the new low end, and have an Elite+OTA model as the high end.
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Old 03-01-2012, 05:10 PM   #21
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Just because you currently use/have cable doesn't mean you can't benefit from OTA tuners:
No disagreement there.

It just comes down to cost, the Elite was for all practical purposes developed for cable companies and only needed digital cable tuners and didn't cost TiVo much more to bring it to retail. To have developed and then built a retail product that was basically a Premiere XL times 2 would have cost significantly more than what the Elite did, both to in development and to build, and therefor would have needed to have cost more than the Elite does.

In my opinion I don't believe there would have been enough sales of a Premiere XL times 2 product to justify the costs and don't believe there would be enough sales of an OTA only Elite type product to justify its costs. Of course my opinion is tainted by the fact that I believe I and most OTA users are better off with two dual tuner DVRs than one quad tuner DVR.
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:53 PM   #22
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No disagreement there.

It just comes down to cost, the Elite was for all practical purposes developed for cable companies and only needed digital cable tuners and didn't cost TiVo much more to bring it to retail. To have developed and then built a retail product that was basically a Premiere XL times 2 would have cost significantly more than what the Elite did, both to in development and to build, and therefor would have needed to have cost more than the Elite does.
But we really don't know that. Perhaps adding OTA would have been $5.... Would that have been worth it? $10?
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Old 03-02-2012, 08:14 PM   #23
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I just took the latest survey (received an e-mail invite). I was struck by one of the early questions:
Interesting... there's either more than one survey or it branches real early as I didn't get that question/remark.
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Old 03-02-2012, 09:50 PM   #24
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Interesting... there's either more than one survey or it branches real early as I didn't get that question/remark.
Neither did I. The first couple of questions asked me if I paid for TV service. Since my answer was 'no', I figure I got skipped past a few questions.
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Old 03-03-2012, 09:29 AM   #25
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Interesting... there's either more than one survey or it branches real early as I didn't get that question/remark.
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Neither did I. The first couple of questions asked me if I paid for TV service. Since my answer was 'no', I figure I got skipped past a few questions.
I believe lpwcomp must have a different survey. Mine was like you two describe. There was nothing in mine about individual TiVo products.

BTW steve614... I answered yes to those questions. The followup questions asked whether I was likely to reduce or eliminate my pay-TV service in the near future.
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Old 03-03-2012, 09:46 AM   #26
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I believe lpwcomp must have a different survey. Mine was like you two describe. There was nothing in mine about individual TiVo products.

BTW steve614... I answered yes to those questions. The followup questions asked whether I was likely to reduce or eliminate my pay-TV service in the near future.
Yeah, my survey was mostly about the Premiere and the new look, like the HDUI guide.
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Old 03-03-2012, 10:05 AM   #27
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Ah, another survey hit today (for me at least). There were no questions about the Elite or OTA, etc, as has been recently mentioned.

They DID ask about if I pay for television service (cable), if I have reduced the programming package I am on, if I plan to reduce it in the future, etc.

Then there was a option SUB SURVEY about financial investments. So TiVo is listening to us when we complain bitterly about non-TiVo marketing drivel in their surveys. I took the sub-survey anyway, just to show my support. At the end of the survey, I thanked them for listening to us on this issue.

Then they asked if I used the Android phone, iphone, or ipad apps. Since I use only Android, I marked that one, then they asked for feedback, which I provided:

1) Android app needs to start without having to "scan" each time. It takes far, far too long to start the application and get it to a usable state. It should just assume you are connecting to the previous TiVo you last used, first.

2) You need a version of the Android app that supports a better layout for Android Tablets.

3) When away from the home network, the Android app is pretty much useless. I even tried to schedule a recording and it never worked.

4) I know this would be very difficult, perhaps impossible, but I would REALLY love to stream video from the Premiere to my Android devices.

They also asked about "TiVo Apps" in general. So I answered:

* I would really love to see a better built-in web server on the Premiere. That way, you can point any web browser from any device running any operating system at the Premiere and perform some basic tasks.

* I really don't use any of the existing "apps" on the Premiere (Netflix, Youtube, Music, etc) because I have better devices for those, and the versions on the Premiere are old, slow, and buggy. I would rather TiVo focus on continuing to improve the core functionality of the Premiere- performance, stability, and DVR features, like we saw in the 14.9/20.2 release.
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Old 03-03-2012, 01:23 PM   #28
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They did ask me about Andoid/Ipad apps.

I did comment at the end about the erroneous information in the preface to the Elite question (the one in my initial post on the subject). Maybe that prompted them to remove it.
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Old 03-03-2012, 03:39 PM   #29
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They did ask me about Andoid/Ipad apps.

I did comment at the end about the erroneous information in the preface to the Elite question (the one in my initial post on the subject). Maybe that prompted them to remove it.
It could be they modified it before I got it, since there wasn't such a question on mine. So maybe it is the same (or similar) survey, afterall.
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Old 03-13-2012, 03:58 PM   #30
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Each survey that I have done I have asked that the app for the iPad and Android have manual IP settings like TiVo Commander. Rebooting the router and the Premiere each time is a non-starter.
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