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Old 09-25-2013, 04:20 PM   #61
Rob Helmerichs
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Originally Posted by john4200 View Post
Not clear at all. While it is possible Red was working with Zamani, it is also possible (and perhaps more likely) that Red was manipulating Zamani, making him think he was working with him when Red was actually just using him as a tool to accomplish his goals and/or to defeat or kill Zamani.
Yeah, I thought he was manipulating Zamani into being caught, without giving up his own rep as a bad guy.

He's spent all those years cultivating relationships with the worst of the worst, and now he will use that to destroy them. But he'll maintain his place in the world of evil as best as he can, in order to maintain his access.

That's how I see it playing out at this point, at least. We'll see where they're actually going with all this.
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Old 09-25-2013, 06:04 PM   #62
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Yeah, I thought he was manipulating Zamani into being caught, without giving up his own rep as a bad guy.
.
Wouldn't that mean that Zamani had no clue the RFID tracker was in his pill bottle? Given that we saw him taking pills from it often that wouldn't be a great place to hide something you didn't want him to find.
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Old 09-25-2013, 06:16 PM   #63
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I had not planned on watching this show, but caught it anyway. It was ok. Definitely had characters that were way too on top of things. I'll probably watch it until at least mid season to see how it develops, but I don't really hold a lot of hope for this one.
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Old 09-25-2013, 06:56 PM   #64
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After 26 different cliches & tropes were rolled out before the first break, I said goodbye.
I'm going to file it along with Under the Dome and The Following. It seemed to be full of absurd villains and absurd law enforcement. How many times did the bad guy get away? How many times did he turn himself in? They really put him up in a Hotel? Really?

Any show that starts out with the bad guy's master plan being to be caught on purpose (Hello Joker, Hello Loki, Hello guy-whose-name-I-forgot from the last Bond movie) is dubious at best.

I expect it'll turn into one of those shows full of constant griping and constant "I'm going to delete my season pass" threats here on TCF.

I also expect I'm going to love it despite all this, just like I did with UTD and TF.

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He's spent all those years cultivating relationships with the worst of the worst, and now he will use that to destroy them. But he'll maintain his place in the world of evil as best as he can, in order to maintain his access.
Sounds like Arvin Sloane in S3 Alias.
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Old 09-25-2013, 08:58 PM   #65
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Quite a bit like Silence of the Lambs.
Yup.

A little Clarice Starling thing going on there.

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Cliches or not, we enjoyed it.
Yup. I enjoyed the Pilot.
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Old 09-25-2013, 09:58 PM   #66
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So far the Blacklist seems like a good show. VERY good chance it will go downhill fast and turn into another 24, Prison Break, Revolution, The Following, or Alias though. Fingers crossed.

Love Spader and his transformation from smarmy rich kid (Pretty in Pink, Less Than Zero) to Creepy guy (sex, lies, ang video tape) to willing victim (Bad Influence) to to geeky nerd (Stargate) to badass in this show.

He really has some range and has carved out a great career after I thought he was a one note brat pack character actor during his early work.

Last week I was at a hotel and Pretty and Pink was playing VH1, I remember when I first watched him in this movie I really hated his character, this time he put a smile on my face.
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Old 09-25-2013, 11:52 PM   #67
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Love Spader and his transformation from smarmy rich kid (Pretty in Pink, Less Than Zero) to Creepy guy (sex, lies, ang video tape) to willing victim (Bad Influence) to to geeky nerd (Stargate) to badass in this show.

He really has some range and has carved out a great career after I thought he was a one note brat pack character actor during his early work.
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Old 09-26-2013, 12:45 AM   #68
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2 Words: Denny Crane!
Yeah, all that and no mention of Alan Shore...
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Old 09-26-2013, 02:51 AM   #69
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It was an okay pilot, but not sure that Red proves his value by catching a bad guy he got into the country and plan he put into motion.

Was the weird engraving on the top of her hubby's secret spy reveal kit based on Liz's scar?
Yes, it was based on her scar. I would venture that the mark on her is not a scar at all, in the conventional sense, but a brand that was deliberately placed on her for identification.
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Old 09-26-2013, 06:11 AM   #70
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Yes, it was based on her scar. I would venture that the mark on her is not a scar at all, in the conventional sense, but a brand that was deliberately placed on her for identification.
I agree, definitely something done on purpose rather than accidentally via a fire.
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Old 09-26-2013, 06:55 AM   #71
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Old 09-26-2013, 08:02 AM   #72
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It was weird when she opened the box. She rubbed the engraving as if it meant something to her. Like the way she would rub her scar. But when she opened the box, she was obviously very surprised by the contents of the box.

So, what's going on? HER box, but not with her stuff in it? Don't quite understand.
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Old 09-26-2013, 08:15 AM   #73
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Old 09-26-2013, 08:15 AM   #74
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It was weird when she opened the box. She rubbed the engraving as if it meant something to her. Like the way she would rub her scar. But when she opened the box, she was obviously very surprised by the contents of the box.

So, what's going on? HER box, but not with her stuff in it? Don't quite understand.
Not her box, but she did appear to recognize the symbol on it. It's a puzzler.
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Old 09-26-2013, 08:40 AM   #75
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i totally didn't catch the scar being the same shape as the box engraving! this is why i love these threads.

so then, why did Red have Zamani go and torture the hubby? that part still doesn't make sense. Maybe the hubby was part of an evil group that was somehow keeping tabs on her after branding her, and Red wanted to get to the hubby to "free" her or something...

the thought occurred to me that the box would have been planted by Zamani to frame the hubby, but that seemed like too much of a hiding place if he wanted her to find it.
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Old 09-26-2013, 09:54 AM   #76
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I think the hubby is another spy, and Red knew about it. That's why he sent Zamani to the house, to plant a seed of doubt in Lizzy.
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Old 09-26-2013, 12:26 PM   #77
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I really liked it, and from the promos I didn't think I would. That character was made for Spader, he kills it.
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Old 09-26-2013, 12:42 PM   #78
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I really liked it, and from the promos I didn't think I would. That character was made for Spader, he kills it.
i kind of agree. i didn't care for Spader until i saw him in Boston Legal (although i hated David E Kelley constantly putting his character on his personal soap box) and loved how he played that character. in seeing the previews for this, i instantly thought he could be really good in that role, and so far, it's looking like he is. I hope it continues.
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Old 09-26-2013, 12:48 PM   #79
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Spader can pull off a hat. Not everybody can wear a hat. So there's that.
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Old 09-26-2013, 05:14 PM   #80
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Not clear at all. While it is possible Red was working with Zamani, it is also possible (and perhaps more likely) that Red was manipulating Zamani, making him think he was working with him when Red was actually just using him as a tool to accomplish his goals and/or to defeat or kill Zamani.

And I'm not sure why you think Zamani could not have come up with another absurd plan that would never work (but actually does work) to kidnap the girl without her being in a convoy of FBI agents.
Timing is everything. Without sending the FBI to go get the girl, the trucks won't be on that bridge at that time, and the attack won't be able to jump off the bridge to land on the boats to get away.

If Spader had said nothing to the FBI at all, then the plan we saw would never have happened. And you don't set something like that up in just a few minutes. From the time the FBI went to get the girl to the time the attack was over there wasn't time to set that up. It had to be planned before the FBI even knew to go get the girl.
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Old 09-26-2013, 10:07 PM   #81
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In for Spader.

The car crash was particularly annoying because we just saw it last week on another show, but all in all I enjoyed it.
We've seen this kind of thing before, but this one REALLY got to me. I mean, I remember cringing and jumping, right before it happened. (Heck, it's even happened in TV *commercials*, right?)

I'm not exactly sure what they did differently, but somehow it got to me, in a good way.

I don't quite know how they're going to keep this show up, but it was fairly entertaining. There did seem to be one very weird cut/scene transition, near the middle. I seem to remember you see either Spader's character, or the female, walking towards an elevator, then it just jumps to an outside scene. I went back to confirm it wasn't an actual glitch in the recording, and it didn't seem to be.

Also, when Spader's character puts his hat on the kids, NONE of them really react. Yeah, some stranger puts a hat on me, and I'm just going to keep walking? Even if they couldn't audibly react (would have to pay them more than extras, I think), seems like they could turn and make a "What the hell?" kind of face.
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Old 09-26-2013, 10:11 PM   #82
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..and we know she's going to hide her hand most of the time, right? So they don't have to do the expensive makeup for the scar over and over? Just like making the guy on "Prison Break" wear heavy shirts all the time.
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Old 09-26-2013, 10:21 PM   #83
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I bet they have a slap-on scar for every day use, and save the expensive makeup for special occasions (i.e., close-ups).
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Old 09-27-2013, 09:53 AM   #84
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A lot of tropes and incredible scenarios, but something about it really hooked us.

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I can't believe nobody's brought this up yet, but we've already been shown the key to some of Reddington's omniscience: He's behind the operative that was clearly placed to become her husband. That's where he got his info about her (my wife gets credit for noticing this).
That might be true too, but I think Spader's been watching her for years because he's Daddy. And I can't believe she hasn't followed up on him knowing so much about her and her being abandoned.

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The one thing I don't think I've seen commented on is that Spader was clearly working with the bad guy, and his surrender and reveal of the kidnapping plot was a necessary part for the plot to succeed.

Had he not alerted the agents to that, they wouldn't have been carrying the girl across the bridge at that time, for the "chemical spill" to turn them around and set them up for everything that follows.
How did that conversation go? "OK, how about this. Instead of an easy snatch of an unprotected girl, I'll tip off the FBI, so you can have a really complicated plan and a dangerous shoot out with the Feds. Also, I'll make sure my new friend is there so she might get killed."

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Yeah, I thought he was manipulating Zamani into being caught, without giving up his own rep as a bad guy.
This. He has to keep his rep so he can work his contacts and know who's where. (He's not really omniscient.) Of course this will continue to make things much more complicated than giving them a list of bad guys and last known locations.

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Wouldn't that mean that Zamani had no clue the RFID tracker was in his pill bottle? Given that we saw him taking pills from it often that wouldn't be a great place to hide something you didn't want him to find.
Well, we do know that Z was dying, so that may tie into him knowingly carrying it. (I don't buy it, but it could.)
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Old 09-27-2013, 02:10 PM   #85
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Timing is everything. Without sending the FBI to go get the girl, the trucks won't be on that bridge at that time, and the attack won't be able to jump off the bridge to land on the boats to get away.

If Spader had said nothing to the FBI at all, then the plan we saw would never have happened. And you don't set something like that up in just a few minutes. From the time the FBI went to get the girl to the time the attack was over there wasn't time to set that up. It had to be planned before the FBI even knew to go get the girl.
you're forgetting a conversation they had - REd and Zamani - where Zamani said something about improvising and changing the plan to get the girl due to the FBI getting in the way, but it went ok. i don't remember exactly, but as i was debating whether or not Red was setting up the FBI for that road attack, they had that dialogue, which made me think that the road attack was NOT the original plan.

i too thought that the "alternate" plan was way to elaborate for an audible, which was one of my peeves with the show.
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Old 09-27-2013, 04:32 PM   #86
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I'll give it another episode or two but found it moving way too fast as well as being way too convenient for many of the plot points to run in succession.
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Old 09-28-2013, 07:27 AM   #87
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Husband hated it. I like it.
Much of it was implausible, I think that is what ruined it for the husband.
No doubt Spader is great. I had to look twice to see it was him. Maybe he will force the writers to tighten things up since it is the role of a lifetime.
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Old 09-28-2013, 07:29 AM   #88
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BTW, Can someone please explain to me what is meant by the word, "tropes" in this thread.
I looked it up, but examples would be helpful.
I only know from tropes in synagogue <grin>.
Thanks!
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Old 09-28-2013, 07:39 AM   #89
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BTW, Can someone please explain to me what is meant by the word, "tropes" in this thread. I looked it up, but examples would be helpful. I only know from tropes in synagogue <grin>. Thanks!
Http://tvtropes.org
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Old 09-28-2013, 08:03 AM   #90
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so then, why did Red have Zamani go and torture the hubby?
My thought: Red had the husband stabbed just so Elizabeth would tear up the carpet.
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