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Old 09-16-2013, 05:38 PM   #1
smak
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Rotten Tomatoes for TV

Looks like tomorrow Rotten Tomatoes is going to launch a TV site.

http://variety.com/2013/digital/news...ws-1200612502/

I am looking forward to it. I sometimes do make decisions on which shows to try out based on reviews.

Right now I go to Aint It Cool News's Coaxial page, because with every premiere, They have a rundown of critics views from across the country.

I just decided to try out Sleepy Hollow based on the reviews.

Also like this idea. Should be cool.

"For the older shows like “Breaking Bad” and “Mad Men,” “we will go back to the beginning,” and include reviews of their earlier seasons, Matt Atchity, editor-in-chief of Rotten Tomatoes, told Variety."

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Old 09-16-2013, 09:41 PM   #2
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There already was a Rotten Tomatoes for TV -- it was a TV show on Current TV..

mostly joking.. it was a movie review show (mostly).. ON current tv.
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Old 09-17-2013, 07:01 AM   #3
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I use Flixster on my smartphone for movie reviews that's linked to Rotten Tomatoes. If there's one thing I've learned about movie reviews is that critics tend to pan just about everything unless it's an independent, foreign, or artsy film. When you compare user reviews vs. the critics, most of the time there's a huge disparity between them.

That doesn't mean I ignore the reviews, but I tend to look to certain critics and not the general public or reviews in general. Most people wouldn't know a good show if it came up and bit them in the a$$. But hey, it's TV and you watch what you like, right?
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Old 09-17-2013, 07:42 AM   #4
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I see Rotten Tomatoes ratings on DirecTV for movies. Are they professional critics or is it more like a forum here, where moves are discussed and liked or disliked based on fan vote? I much prefer reading what real viewers think than some critic who is...ummm...just watching TV too, but gets paid to write about it.
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Old 09-17-2013, 09:19 AM   #5
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Rotten Tomatoes compiles reviews from major newspapers, TV stations, and other similar sources from all over the country. You'll find a lot of recognizable sources as well as some perhaps not so well known, such as the Podunk Holler Gazette . You can link to the full reviews from each source via the Rotten Tomatoes website or the Flixster mobile app.
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Old 09-17-2013, 09:25 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.unnatural View Post
Rotten Tomatoes compiles reviews from major newspapers, TV stations, and other similar sources from all over the country. You'll find a lot of recognizable sources as well as some perhaps not so well known, such as the Podunk Holler Gazette . You can link to the full reviews from each source via the Rotten Tomatoes website or the Flixster mobile app.
Thanks for that. I usually only read reviews for a summary of the plot of something I might be interested and skim over the opinions, which I couldn't care less about. Probably why I generally like stuff that isn't all that popular.
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Old 09-17-2013, 11:24 AM   #7
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Variety recently had an interesting article entitled "Roger Ebert: The Last Critic Who Mattered?". It talks about Rotten Tomatoes and how the entire landscape has changed ...

http://variety.com/2013/film/markets...n=weeklyonline
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Old 09-17-2013, 12:25 PM   #8
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To me, critics matter if they have the same taste as me. Otherwise, for all the glowing reviews, if it's a movie or show that I'm not interested in, it doesn't matter. I can't tell you how many critically acclaimed shows I've hated and how many panned shows I've loved. I could care less about the finer arts of making a movie or TV show. Even Ebert I didn't agree with all the time and I enjoyed watching him with Siskel or Roper because they made their reviews entertaining. For me, it was more about finding out what movies are coming out than caring whether they liked it or not. But, that said, if there IS a critic that has similar tastes than I do, then I might read what they write.

To show you have different my tastes are and why critics don't matter to me, probably one of the most acclaimed movies of all time (and voted #1 by AFI) is Citizen Kane which I consider, from an entertainment standpoint one of the the most overrated movies of all time....yet it's universally loved by critics. Today's TV darling "Breaking Bad" a series loved by all the critics, I didn't like.

So, since my tastes are so contrary to what most critics think, I find little value in their opinions.
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Old 09-17-2013, 12:33 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gweempose View Post
Variety recently had an interesting article entitled "Roger Ebert: The Last Critic Who Mattered?". It talks about Rotten Tomatoes and how the entire landscape has changed ...

http://variety.com/2013/film/markets...n=weeklyonline
From your article

Quote:
“Film criticism doesn’t have a great sway over the masses of people’s taste,” he mourns. “The object is to put pants in seats, and I regret we film critics aren’t doing anything about that.”
Undisputed once and future locus of opinion is the Internet. Notes Dergarabedian, “The bastion of the elite has become populist. Social media have become the critic. It’s a collective, a co-op.”

Says one filmmaker who wished to remain anonymous, “Twitter and Facebook have replaced (critics). ‘Do my friends like it?’ That’s probably a better indication of whether I’ll like it as well.”
Today’s critical essays are reduced to mere percentages points on Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic. “It must feel like such an insult to the critics, being reduced to a data point,” says one bizzer. “The Time Magazine guy has the same status as Chuckle**** Film Blog. That must kill him.”
I agree with this totally. And that's a good thing. How many of us over the years have wasted money on movies because a "critic" said it was good. How many of us have walked out of the theater and wondered what the critic saw in that movie? Critics are people too. They have tastes and the odds of a critic having similar tastes to me are a LOT less than my friends having similar tastes. To me movie critics at this point in time are for the movie connoisseur. The person who watches close enough to notice the cinematography or subtle direction. They are now in the bastion of wine critics and food critics. It used to be that a movie could live and die on a bad review, but that's no longer the case.
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Old 09-17-2013, 12:47 PM   #10
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Just like Yelp/Amazon/Netflix and other review sites there can be individual review crap but I think the overall average and number of reviews do way out to a good general consensus.

I don't at all rely on an individual critic or review anymore.
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Old 09-17-2013, 12:52 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gweempose View Post
Variety recently had an interesting article entitled "Roger Ebert: The Last Critic Who Mattered?". It talks about Rotten Tomatoes and how the entire landscape has changed ...

http://variety.com/2013/film/markets...n=weeklyonline
I'll have to check out that article when I get some spare time. As for the title, that says it all. Roger Ebert had the exact same tastes as me and I can't recall a single movie that he gave a thumbs up that I didn't enjoy. Now that he's gone there really aren't any critics out there worth a damn, IMHO.
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Old 09-17-2013, 01:02 PM   #12
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I've found that the Rotten Tomatoes score is often not representative of how good a film actually is, with lots of mediocre movies receiving high scores. I think the imdb and Netflix ratings are more useful.

What exactly is the Rotten Tomatoes algorithm? Are they just reporting the percentage of reviewers that gave the film (/TV show) a favorable review? So if all reviewers say that a movie was pretty good, but not great, it would get 100%?
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Old 09-17-2013, 01:17 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLiquid View Post
I've found that the Rotten Tomatoes score is often not representative of how good a film actually is, with lots of mediocre movies receiving high scores. I think the imdb and Netflix ratings are more useful.

What exactly is the Rotten Tomatoes algorithm? Are they just reporting the percentage of reviewers that gave the film (/TV show) a favorable review? So if all reviewers say that a movie was pretty good, but not great, it would get 100%?
Just remember, one person's mediocre movie is another person's great one. We all have different tastes.
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Old 09-17-2013, 01:43 PM   #14
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Just remember, one person's mediocre movie is another person's great one. We all have different tastes.
That is true of course, but if your taste does not differ that far from the majority, then these consensus reviews can be helpful. If you think The Shawshank Redemption was terrrible and Battlefield Earth was a masterpiece, then you should probably ignore reviews.

It just seems to me that the Rotten Tomatoes rating algorithm isn't a measurement of how good the reviewers thought a film was, it is the percentage of reviewers who thought the film didn't suck. It can still be useful, but it can also be deceiving if it's the only review number you look at.
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Old 09-17-2013, 03:10 PM   #15
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What about metacritic? They've basically been doing what the OP is talking about for years.
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Old 09-17-2013, 05:34 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLiquid View Post
What exactly is the Rotten Tomatoes algorithm? Are they just reporting the percentage of reviewers that gave the film (/TV show) a favorable review? So if all reviewers say that a movie was pretty good, but not great, it would get 100%?
Pretty much, yes. It's "Fresh" or "Rotten" for each review, and then the rating is the percentage of "Fresh" reviews. You will often see reviews with quotes like "Given all those problems, as a dumb buddy action comedy, it succeeds" getting a fresh rating.
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Old 09-17-2013, 06:32 PM   #17
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It is funny, Rotten Tomatoes and IMDB have their systems backwards from what they should be.

With RT, where they are looking at published reviews, the reviewers have an incentive to make their numerical rating meaningful. In other words, if the reviewers rate on a 1-4, 1-5, 1-10, F-A, etc. type scale, then in most cases, they will assign the rating that they think the movie deserves. Since the numerical rankings are likely to be meaningful, RT should normalize them, say to a scale of 1-10, and then average the ratings of all the reviews for a movie to get a composite numerical rank for the movie.

In contrast, with IMDB, few people actually publish a review. Most visitors to a movie's page just click on the star rating to vote. And there is an incentive to always vote either 1 or 10 on IMDB, depending on whether you think the movie is overrated or underrated (or not vote at all if the rating looks correct). Because if you vote a 1 or a 10, you have a stronger effect on the average rating than if, say the movie is rated 9 and you think it only deserves a 7. You could always give it a 7, but your vote counts 4 times more towards pulling down the average if you give it a 1 instead of an 7. So, the numerical votes counted on IMDB are less likely to be meaningful. And so IMDB would be better off just counting the percentage of votes that are higher than 5 and reporting a freshness rating like RT.

Rotten Tomatoes treats reviews as pass/fail when they would do better to treat reviews as a grade, and IMDB treats votes as a grade when they would do better to treat the votes as pass/fail.

Last edited by john4200 : 09-17-2013 at 07:09 PM.
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Old 09-17-2013, 06:47 PM   #18
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Rotten Tomatoes does both. For the Tomatometer they grade them pass/fail, but for the average rating they assign each review a score.

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Old 09-17-2013, 06:57 PM   #19
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Rotten Tomatoes grades the movies based on the percentage of favorable reviews it receives. The individual reviews either get a "fresh" or "rotten" rating, which is then calculated into the final tally. For a movie to receive a "fresh" rating, a minimum of 60% of the reviews must be favorable.
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Old 09-17-2013, 07:00 PM   #20
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Rotten Tomatoes does both. For the Tomatometer they grade them pass/fail, but for the average rating they assign each review a score.
Good point.

But the Tomatometer rank gets top billing, and the average rating is in the small print. Also, I think you have to actually go to the movie page to see the average rating, whereas the Tomatometer rating is shown in all the lists and rankings.

Last edited by john4200 : 09-17-2013 at 07:07 PM.
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Old 09-18-2013, 01:39 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Steveknj View Post
I see Rotten Tomatoes ratings on DirecTV for movies. Are they professional critics or is it more like a forum here, where moves are discussed and liked or disliked based on fan vote? I much prefer reading what real viewers think than some critic who is...ummm...just watching TV too, but gets paid to write about it.
Why aren't people who get paid real viewers?
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Old 09-18-2013, 07:51 AM   #22
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Why aren't people who get paid real viewers?
Because people who are paid to review are corruptible. Give our movie a good review and we'll throw you a little something. And being on the inside means you probably have friends in the biz. Hard to be objective when you are reviewing a friend's movie.

That said, I should have said "average" viewer, not professional viewer. The only advantage a professional critic has over you and me is he probably went to journalism school and write better than us. Other than that? They have an opinion, just like we do. This isn't reviewing wines or even smartphones, where you need a certain technical expertise to be able to judge build and value. Even there, I sometimes prefer real time reviews by people who use them like an average user would. A TV show or movie is accessible to everyone. We've all seen movies and TV, we've all had opinions about movies and TV, and frankly, I don't think most critics are any more qualified than you or me in judging if something is enjoyable or not. But like a tech geek or a wine connoisseur needs to know more than that, I would imagine someone in the TV trade or the movie biz will notice more than the average viewer and talk about those things. But they don't speak to me, anymore than me saying a smartphone is better because it has a quad core processor and 1GB or RAM. Does it work for what she needs it for? That's all that matters.
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