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Old 09-15-2013, 10:28 AM   #1
AdamNJ
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why no 1080p/60?

So on my Roamio I have output resolutions set at 1080p/60 and 1080p/24 (for netflix). I know that the Cable TV broadcasts are only going to be natively 720p or 1080i (or SD); however, I like having the Roamio scale everything up.

The Mini doesn't seem to have 1080p/60 for some reason. I see 1080p/24, but other then that there is only 720p (60) and 1080i (60). Is the hardware a limiting factor (can't support scaling to 1080p/60 like the Roamio)? Is there too high of bit rate / networking requirement for sending higher resolution streams? Any reason for it not to be an option, or will this come out in an update at some point?
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Old 09-15-2013, 02:51 PM   #2
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Yeah, I was wondering the same thing. Was just setting my resolutions on my Mini and Plus a couple of days ago and noticed the discrepancy between the choices on the two boxes.

I'm not sure I could see the difference between the three choices in quality though.
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Old 09-16-2013, 04:01 PM   #3
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The scaler in the Mini probably can't do 1080p/60. 1080p/24 is pass through only so it doesn't go through the scaler.
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Old 09-17-2013, 08:35 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
The scaler in the Mini probably can't do 1080p/60. 1080p/24 is pass through only so it doesn't go through the scaler.
It scales it to 1080P24 on the Mini, at least when playing back Netflix. But not from a broadcast source. When set to 1080P24 and when streaming a netflix title, as soon as you start streaming the title, it will be output in 1080P24, even though it's playing an SD stream at the beginning. That can only happen if it is being upscaled to 1080P24.

Most broadcast content needs to be at 60P or 30P so there would be no point in using 1080P24 with it.

I do wish TiVo went with a different chip that could scale to 1080P60 output. If they come out with a new Mini with that capabilty, then I will be selling my two launch Minis to replace them with ones capable of scaling all content to 1080P60.

EDIT: I see the Mini also outputs Youtube in 1080P24.

Aren't the Youtube and Netflix app newer versions?


EDIT: I see also the menus of both Netflix and Youtube are output in 1080P24. I had thought Netflix switched to 1080P24 when streaming a title but it is in 1080P24 as soon as the app is started. So it must just be these newer apps that can be output in 1080P24.
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Last edited by aaronwt : 09-17-2013 at 08:47 AM.
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Old 09-17-2013, 01:07 PM   #5
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The 1080p/24 option is passthrough only. Meaning it can passthrough a 1080p/24 from a source that is natively that format, but it can not convert anything else to that format. All the options above the line it can actually convert to. So if you uncheck everything except say 1080i then everything will be output as 1080i even if it's natively SD or 720p. It does this by running the video through a scaler. The Roamio has an option for 1080p/60, the Mini does not, I assume this is because the scaler in the Mini does not have the capability to convert things to 1080p/60.
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Old 09-17-2013, 01:39 PM   #6
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Quote:
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The 1080p/24 option is passthrough only. Meaning it can passthrough a 1080p/24 from a source that is natively that format, but it can not convert anything else to that format. All the options above the line it can actually convert to. So if you uncheck everything except say 1080i then everything will be output as 1080i even if it's natively SD or 720p. It does this by running the video through a scaler. The Roamio has an option for 1080p/60, the Mini does not, I assume this is because the scaler in the Mini does not have the capability to convert things to 1080p/60.
I have two Minis. The 1080p24 option does not say "pass-through" like it does on my premieres.

I only have 1080i and 1080p24 checked for outputs on my two minis. As soon as the Youtube app or netflix app starts, the video output switches from 1080i to 1080P24 and stays at the 1080p24 resolution for the entire time the app is running and for everything you view from it.

With the Premiere line which has 1080P24 pass-through, with only 1080i and 1080P24(pass-through) checked for the video output. Netflix will initially be in 1080i. When you start streaming a title it will keep outputting 1080i until it reaches the first 1080P bitrate of 3500kbps(or is it 3600kpbs?). Once it reaches that bitrate then the output will switch to 1080p24. This is 1080p24 passthrough.

Which is a stark contrast to the TiVo Minis which will always output 1080P24 from both those apps. Which is not 1080p24 passthrough. Otherwise it would behave exactly like the Premiere which specifically states that it does have 1080p24 passthrough in the video output options. And anytime the resolution changes(or framerate) you have the picture blank out for 1 or 2 seconds(some people report longer).

Which is why I only use 1080P60 output on my Roamio pro and don't have 1080P24 selected. Since the picture will blank out when it switches to 1080p24 output on Netflix.
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Last edited by aaronwt : 09-17-2013 at 01:50 PM.
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Old 09-17-2013, 01:58 PM   #7
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I have two Minis. The 1080p24 option does not say "pass-through" like it does on my premieres.
My Mini did say "pass-through" during initial used, but after the activation and software update to 20.3.x the description changed.
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Old 09-17-2013, 03:22 PM   #8
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Hmmm... Haven't looked at that option since setup. I remember it saying passthrough too. Converting non-24fps to 1080p/24 is difficult and could cause problems for standard 720p or 1080i/30 video so it's highly unlikely they would use that setting in the scaler.

Maybe the reason the Netflix UI is 1080p/24 on the Mini is because it's a newer version of the app then what's on the Premiere? Wasn't there a problem with the Mini rebooting if you had 1080p/24 checked when it was first launched? Maybe the solution was to always run the whole UI in 1080p/24?
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Old 09-17-2013, 04:23 PM   #9
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Quote:
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Hmmm... Haven't looked at that option since setup. I remember it saying passthrough too. Converting non-24fps to 1080p/24 is difficult and could cause problems for standard 720p or 1080i/30 video so it's highly unlikely they would use that setting in the scaler.

Maybe the reason the Netflix UI is 1080p/24 on the Mini is because it's a newer version of the app then what's on the Premiere? Wasn't there a problem with the Mini rebooting if you had 1080p/24 checked when it was first launched? Maybe the solution was to always run the whole UI in 1080p/24?
Yes there was an issue with 1080P24 output before. And maybe that is when it was still using pass-through as an option for the output. I had to uncheck it before since it would cause the reboot. I guess since the last update there is no mention of "pass through" when selecting 1080P24. And I reselected 1080P24 since they had that update that corrected the reboot issue.

I've only seen 1080P24 output from the Netflix app and the Youtube app on my Minis so far. And both of those apps are newer versions.
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