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Old 08-29-2013, 06:19 AM   #1
HarperVision
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Roamio vs XBox One?

OK, I had a Roamio Pro on order from SS, but the delay and some other monetary things made me rethink so I cancelled the order....for now.....I think....

Reason is, I am second guessing because of the features and excitement over the new Xbox One and its possible DVR and TV abilities. I followed some threads on AVS for a bit when it was announced but have since lost touch. I hypothesized there that what if it could accept an Ethernet or USB tuner like the HDHomerun or Ceton products instead of just passing thru the hdmi, aka the GoogleTV, and if so, possibly also be able to store recordings locally or on an external drive, making a pretty impressive DVR and media machine. I also thought the old 360's may be then used as extenders for the XBone, like a TiVo mini/ MC extender, all with (hopefully), no monthly costs involved.

My question is, does anyone know anything new about the XBone, for reasons mentioned above, that may make my second guessing of plunking down all this cash on new TiVo gear and Lifetime Service, valid???
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Old 08-29-2013, 06:36 AM   #2
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OK, I had a Roamio Pro on order from SS, but the delay and some other monetary things made me rethink so I cancelled the order....for now.....I think....

Reason is, I am second guessing because of the features and excitement over the new Xbox One and its possible DVR and TV abilities. I followed some threads on AVS for a bit when it was announced but have since lost touch. I hypothesized there that what if it could accept an Ethernet or USB tuner like the HDHomerun or Ceton products instead of just passing thru the hdmi, aka the GoogleTV, and if so, possibly also be able to store recordings locally or on an external drive, making a pretty impressive DVR and media machine. I also thought the old 360's may be then used as extenders for the XBone, like a TiVo mini/ MC extender, all with (hopefully), no monthly costs involved.

My question is, does anyone know anything new about the XBone, for reasons mentioned above, that may make my second guessing of plunking down all this cash on new TiVo gear and Lifetime Service, valid???
MS has already stated that the XBOne is not a DVR. Of course there could be something in the future, but they are not talking about it now. They went out of their way to say that it's not a DVR.
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Old 08-29-2013, 04:10 PM   #3
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I understand its not a DVR as it sells at retail, but does anyone know if it will have the "capability" of being one with an Ethernet/USB tuner and external HD plugged in. I think what they're saying with not being a dvr is in reference to the HDMI pass through, not some other external tuner and storage solution. I do think I heard that it should support external tuners in Europe.
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Old 08-29-2013, 04:14 PM   #4
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The Xboc One is a fullly featured x86 computer with tons of horsepower as well as low power modes. Microsoft can make it do whatever it wants. It can support U-Verse with a software update and can support Digital Cable with an external USB device.

So, they CAN, but WILL they? It's unlikely.
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Old 08-29-2013, 04:22 PM   #5
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Yeah that's kind of what I was hoping to find out with this thread....."will" they?! I was hoping someone was more in "the know" about it than I currently am. I guess it's about the same as last I checked in on it over at AVS. Maybe I'll just hold off a couple months and find out before I decide.
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Old 08-29-2013, 04:30 PM   #6
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I doubt it.
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Old 08-29-2013, 04:36 PM   #7
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Probably no. More likely are more Internet streaming deals with cable sub. I think TW is signed up right now.
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Old 08-29-2013, 06:23 PM   #8
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Thanks, but if it doesn't have some sort of DVR capabilities, either local or in the cloud, then I'm out and I guess Roamio is the choice then!
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Old 08-29-2013, 06:25 PM   #9
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Yeah that's kind of what I was hoping to find out with this thread....."will" they?! I was hoping someone was more in "the know" about it than I currently am.
No one knows anything.
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Old 08-29-2013, 06:25 PM   #10
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It's not going to have DVR functionality at launch. Maybe they'll decide to add it a year from now, or more, but it's definitely not going to have it at launch. So if you have to choose one or the other right now, and you need a DVR, then the TiVo is clear choice.
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Old 08-29-2013, 07:29 PM   #11
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I currently use DirecTV genie with an HR24 and 2 minis, so I'm set. I just want to cut down costs, get back a little more control and of course get something new and exciting!!! I've had a TiVo since the beginning and am itching to have it again whole home here. The only reason I got DTV here when I moved is to get my local sports teams from Philly.
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Old 08-29-2013, 07:46 PM   #12
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Well TiVo doesn't work with DirecTV so if you still need that then I suggest you stick with the Genie and get the XB1 instead.

Plus, even if you don't need that, I'm not sure switching to TV would really save you any money. In most cases cable is more expensive then DirecTV and a whole home setup with TiVo equivalent to your Genie is going to cost a minimum $1,300 if you want lifetime (Roamio Plus + 2 Minis) or $600 + $27/mo ($15 + $6 x 2)
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Old 08-30-2013, 05:36 AM   #13
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Well TiVo doesn't work with DirecTV so if you still need that then I suggest you stick with the Genie and get the XB1 instead.

Plus, even if you don't need that, I'm not sure switching to TV would really save you any money. In most cases cable is more expensive then DirecTV and a whole home setup with TiVo equivalent to your Genie is going to cost a minimum $1,300 if you want lifetime (Roamio Plus + 2 Minis) or $600 + $27/mo ($15 + $6 x 2)
I know directv doesn't work with the current tivos, that's not at all what I'm asking or saying. Look I've had, on and off, both of these since their inception (dtv in 1994 and TiVo jan 2000), plus I've been in the TV and Radio broadcast business even longer. I have a TiVo/Slingbox setup in Philly now, so no need for all the expensive sports packages on dtv. I can save about $60/month in programming and box fees going to Oceanic TWC and getting about the exact same channel package. I am putting the entire purchase on a credit card with 24 months same as cash, so to pay off in that time it's about $55/month, so about $5/month savings, but of course I get residual value of the TiVo equipment that I would own instead of lease, and then after 2 years the savings are real.

Does that explain it now?
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Old 08-30-2013, 06:02 AM   #14
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It explains what you're doing, but not your conundrum. The XB1 and the TiVo are very different things. I still don't understand why you're trying to choose between them. If you want a game system then get an XB1, if you want a TiVo and to save $5/mo then get the TiVo. There is very little overlap in functionality so they're not really interchangeable.
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Old 08-30-2013, 06:14 AM   #15
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I didn't say they "were" the same, I was hypothesizing because I'm not really in a hurry to have to switch at the moment since I have the Genie. What I don't want to do is spend all that money on the Roamio and minis then a few months later the XBone comes along and does support external tuners and HDDs with DVR functionality and no lifetime or monthly fees.

I am salivating over all the TiVo love, but I don't want to use that to make an irrational decision either, so I'm looking for a reality check I guess. I was basically asking if anyone knew more than I currently did that would give me enough info that it'd be worth it to at least wait and see......get it????

D you even know what an Xbox 360 can do with a pc, wmc and a tuner? If you did you wouldn't be replying as you are I'd think. The XBone basically can and will possibly replace the "pc" part of the equation, as someone mentioned previously.
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Old 08-30-2013, 06:20 AM   #16
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The Xboc One is a fullly featured x86 computer with tons of horsepower as well as low power modes. Microsoft can make it do whatever it wants. It can support U-Verse with a software update and can support Digital Cable with an external USB device.

So, they CAN, but WILL they? It's unlikely.
^^^^^^here^^^^^^^
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Old 08-30-2013, 07:55 AM   #17
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Yeah that's kind of what I was hoping to find out with this thread....."will" they?! I was hoping someone was more in "the know" about it than I currently am. I guess it's about the same as last I checked in on it over at AVS. Maybe I'll just hold off a couple months and find out before I decide.
There's no way they're going to use Cablecard PC tuners to get video, so how exactly is the Xbone going to be a DVR? Via some yet to be determined net streaming provider, someday? And then they'd have to run Media Center locally when by all accounts they've shut down active development on that software?

This is wishful thinking IMO, and not a reason to justify whether or not to upgrade a Tivo. The Roamio has absolutely nothing to do with the Xbone.
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Old 08-30-2013, 11:11 AM   #18
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in THEORY they could make it a DVR for AT&T U-verse customers... but if they were going to do that, why not do it with the Xbox 360? And why no announcement? That would be exciting if the XBone could be a UVerse tuner. I think it's safe to assume that is not in the immediate (first year of launch) future.
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Old 08-30-2013, 02:02 PM   #19
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D you even know what an Xbox 360 can do with a pc, wmc and a tuner? If you did you wouldn't be replying as you are I'd think. The XBone basically can and will possibly replace the "pc" part of the equation, as someone mentioned previously.
I'm very aware of what Media Center and XBox can do together. It's kind of my business. (Ever heard of VideoReDo?) And with tuners like the HDHomeRun out there, which are CableCARD tuners that function via Ethernet, it would be very, very, easy for MS to add DVR functionality to the XB1. However I don't think they will. They've actually stopped developing Media Center on the PC so for them it's a an end of life product.

That being said there was something in the XB1 announcement about it being able to dual boot Windows 8. If someone can figure out how to install MCE into that copy of Windows 8 then it might be possible to convert and XB1 into a HTPC using an HDHomeRun or maybe even a Ceton USB tuner. We wont really know for sure until they get into the hands of people willing to try. MS certainly isn't going to announce the capability.
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Old 08-30-2013, 05:37 PM   #20
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There's another way Msft (or Sony) could make either of the next gen consoles DVRs. It'd take two things:

1) A cable app, ala the twc app coming for Xbox one

2) A cable provider like Cablevision who is heavily pushing their DVR in the cloud service. No DVR box is required in the home, only a regular HD box. Though there is lag, it basically works the same as having a local DVR box.
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Old 08-30-2013, 05:48 PM   #21
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That cloud DVR uses the VOD system, which still requires a tuner.
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Old 08-30-2013, 05:49 PM   #22
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The xbone TV functionality just seems like crap to be frank.

Another UI on top of my existing UI that only can tune live TV via an IR blaster? Are you kidding me? Sounds like one giant mess.

If there were to offer any cable/dvr type service in the future with the xbone I would bet money it would be IP based.
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Old 08-30-2013, 05:53 PM   #23
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I doubt seriously we'll see any official DVR functionality. However we'll have to wait and see what the hackers can do. It is basically an x86 PC and they said it could boot into Win8, so it may not be that hard to make it into an HTPC.
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Old 08-30-2013, 09:04 PM   #24
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That cloud DVR uses the VOD system, which still requires a tuner.
Perhaps as currently deployed. But there is zero technical reason that the app couldn't be developed to include cloud DVR functionality and delivery via the app. None.

Whether it happens is a separate question obviously. But that's a way more likely scenario than any USB/wmc/Ceton outboard tuner scenario IMO.
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:47 PM   #25
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I think a standalone company tried to do that once and they got sued out of existence. Maybe if Cablevision survives this lawsuit and wins we'll see another company attempt it. But the cable companies don't really have an incentive to use a pure IP solution when it's easier for them to use the VOD system in place.
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Old 08-31-2013, 08:06 AM   #26
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I think a standalone company tried to do that once and they got sued out of existence. Maybe if Cablevision survives this lawsuit and wins we'll see another company attempt it. But the cable companies don't really have an incentive to use a pure IP solution when it's easier for them to use the VOD system in place.
Well, Cablevision has already survived this lawsuit and my assumption was that what I described would result from a good working partnership between a cable co and msft/sne. In other words, CV and say Msft would work together to make it happen.

As for motivation, I think down the road we'll see the geographic boundaries currently governing cable (tv) operations come to an end. They'll all chase a national footprint where every household is a potential customer. But they would do that not by pulling lines and installing boxes everywhere, but by being essentially just another OTT delivery service. So you'd still need a local broadband solution but could choose from any number of "cable" companies for TV. At that point, the features delivered by company's app, and the methods in which the app as available (eg on game consoles and BR players) matter.

Said in a much simpler way...wouldn't it be awesome if TWC, Comcast, et al had tv/dvr apps that were as ubiquitously available as Netflix's app is today? Talk about competition! And since this seems to be where apple, intel and others are already trying to get to, I think we can count on the incumbents to join the party and fight fire with fire sooner or later.
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Old 08-31-2013, 01:19 PM   #27
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That would be awesome but a lot of laws would have to be changed for that to happen. I think we're at least a decade, maybe more, out from that happening.
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Old 09-04-2013, 04:00 PM   #28
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Which laws? You mean cable franchises? I wouldn't think so, if marketed as an OTT service...
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Old 09-04-2013, 04:13 PM   #29
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If you offered it as an OTT service the cable companies might start doing things like lowering data caps or throttling bandwidth to prevent you from using it. Since cable companies are usually also the only good broadband provider for most people (DSL sucks) cable companies have a lot of leverage to make sure such a service wouldn't succeed.
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Old 09-06-2013, 12:11 PM   #30
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Agreed they have tons of leverage. I do think that the open Internet will ultimately be legislated to prevent throttling as a discriminatory/anti-competitive thing. But we shall see.
Data caps as a de-facto form of throttling is a tougher case to prove and so may ultimately be the downfall of my hopes...
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