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Old 09-11-2013, 05:13 PM   #1
elwaylite
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Amazon HD File Playback Issues

I bought the Basic to record both OTA and get Amazon HD TV shows because of the excellent PQ.

Since starting this two weeks ago, I regularly see some pixellation at times with playback, granted its minor and not often throughout the show. The other problem is, out of about 15 shows watch, 2 have been corrupted and locked up part of the way through. This is not huge, because I just get on chat and Amazon will force a new download that ends up playing back fine.

Im not sure if this has been common, or is just a Roamio bug. Resolution has nothing to do with it, because itll happen at the same point every time regardless of settings, and since a new fine will play fine, it leads me to believe its a tivo issue either when it writes it to the drive, or when it plays it back.

Just wondering if anyone is seeing this, or if its been a problem on other models?
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Old 09-11-2013, 05:20 PM   #2
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Here are examples from a new episode of Top Gear US:

Before it starts


As it starts


Gets going






Then itll clear right back up.
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Old 09-11-2013, 05:31 PM   #3
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That's a decoding error. Either the stream got corrupted during download or there is an error in the encode on Amazon's end. It's highly unlikely this is a Roamio issue.
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Old 09-11-2013, 05:35 PM   #4
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I guess my only question with that is, why is the next time the file is downloaded its OK?

I guess I get a corruption during download, but that just seems like something that should not happen this often. I dont ever remember this issue on my premier or S3.
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Old 09-11-2013, 05:36 PM   #5
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I wonder if taking it off wifi would make a difference?
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Old 09-11-2013, 06:34 PM   #6
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So if you redownload the same episode the problem goes away? Definitely a corruption issue. The first thing I would try is getting rid of wifi. Although TCP/IP should have enough error correction to prevent that. If you still have the problem you might want to consider swapping out the Roamio. You may have some sort of hardware problem.
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Old 09-11-2013, 06:43 PM   #7
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I'm seeing some macroblocking for Amazon HD downloads of some "Breaking Bad" episodes (season 5, episode 1 for example) on my Roamio Plus.

I think it's a bug with Roamio platform during download process. I say that because:
* If I re-download same show to Roamio the macroblocking doesn't happen in same places
* If I download same show to my Premiere or Elite there are no issues there

If it was a Roamio decoder issue of some sort I'd expect macroblocking in same places for different downloads of same show, which I'm not seeing.
In my case Roamio connects directly to my GigE router though the type of network shouldn't really matter.

Note that so far the macroblocking is minor and only see it about 2-3 times per 42 minute episode, so it's not a huge problem but is annoying.

Does anyone know the format of Amazon downloads to TiVos these days? I'm guessing Amazon HD downloads are mp4 container with H.264 video and AC3 audio but I'm not sure... A long time back they were using VC-1 in wmv container and wma audio for TiVos but I'm pretty sure that's no longer the case.
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Last edited by moyekj : 09-11-2013 at 06:49 PM.
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Old 09-11-2013, 06:55 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moyekj View Post
I'm seeing some macroblocking for Amazon HD downloads of some "Breaking Bad" episodes (season 5, episode 1 for example) on my Roamio Plus.

I think it's a bug with Roamio platform during download process. I say that because:
* If I re-download same show to Roamio the macroblocking doesn't happen in same places
* If I download same show to my Premiere or Elite there are no issues there

If it was a Roamio decoder issue of some sort I'd expect macroblocking in same places for different downloads of same show, which I'm not seeing.
In my case Roamio connects directly to my GigE router though the type of network shouldn't really matter.

Note that so far the macroblocking is minor and only see it about 2-3 times per 42 minute episode, so it's not a huge problem but is annoying.

Does anyone know the format of Amazon downloads to TiVos these days? I'm guessing Amazon HD downloads are mp4 container with H.264 video and AC3 audio but I'm not sure... A long time back they were using VC-1 in wmv container and wma audio for TiVos but I'm pretty sure that's no longer the case.
If you replay the same file, without re-downloading, is the problem always in the same place? If so it sounds like something is getting corrupted when TiVo is converting from the Amazon download format to their internal storage format. I wonder what the Amazon download format is? MP4? TS? Something else?
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Old 09-11-2013, 06:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moyekj View Post
I'm seeing some macroblocking for Amazon HD downloads of some "Breaking Bad" episodes (season 5, episode 1 for example) on my Roamio Plus.

I think it's a bug with Roamio platform during download process. I say that because:
* If I re-download same show to Roamio the macroblocking doesn't happen in same places
* If I download same show to my Premiere or Elite there are no issues there

If it was a Roamio decoder issue of some sort I'd expect macroblocking in same places for different downloads of same show, which I'm not seeing.
In my case Roamio connects directly to my GigE router though the type of network shouldn't really matter.

Note that so far the macroblocking is minor and only see it about 2-3 times per 42 minute episode, so it's not a huge problem but is annoying.

Does anyone know the format of Amazon downloads to TiVos these days? I'm guessing Amazon HD downloads are mp4 container with H.264 video and AC3 audio but I'm not sure... A long time back they were using VC-1 in wmv container and wma audio for TiVos but I'm pretty sure that's no longer the case.
Thanks for the input. I just installed a new home theater version of a 4 port powerline adapter, tivo is working well with it. That will at least rule out wifi, but it sounds like it my just be something with the Roamio that needs to be fixed with a FW update.

Earlier I tried watching the first episode of the new season of Luther from BBC in HD, and it had some random macroblocking and locked up about 5 mins in, so I deleted the file. Im halfway thru the forced re-download from Amazon customer service and it hasnt broken up once.
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Old 09-11-2013, 07:00 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
If you replay the same file, without re-downloading, is the problem always in the same place? If so it sounds like something is getting corrupted when TiVo is converting from the Amazon download format to their internal storage format. I wonder what the Amazon download format is? MP4? TS? Something else?
If I restart the show, it breaks up in the same spot and locks up in the same spot. Ive had to delete two episodes of two different shows so far and re download. The second download has gone off without a hitch.
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Old 09-11-2013, 07:38 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by elwaylite View Post
If I restart the show, it breaks up in the same spot and locks up in the same spot. Ive had to delete two episodes of two different shows so far and re download. The second download has gone off without a hitch.
Yes, for me I get macroblocking in exact same spots when re-playing a corrupted segment, so it looks to be corruption that is part of the recording itself. As Dan mentioned it's probably a bug in Roamio re-muxing to whatever internal format recordings are stored on the TiVo, but it's just a guess as I don't know how Amazon downloads to TiVo work exactly.
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Old 09-11-2013, 07:39 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moyekj View Post
Yes, for me I get macroblocking in exact same spots when re-playing a corrupted segment, so it looks to be corruption that is part of the recording itself. As Dan mentioned it's probably a bug in Roamio re-muxing to whatever internal format recordings are stored on the TiVo.

So as it downloads the Amazon container, it is converting it to the TiVo format real time? Or would it do it at the end of the download? Just curious.
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Old 09-11-2013, 07:41 PM   #13
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So as it downloads the Amazon container, it is converting it to the TiVo format real time? Or would it do it at the end of the download? Just curious.
If there is a conversion (which I don't know if that is the case) it would be in real time, since you can start watching before the download completes.
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Old 09-11-2013, 07:44 PM   #14
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If it breaks up in the same spot every time then that is definitely some sort of data corruption. Since moyekj is seeing the same thing it does seem to be a software problem. TiVo must be doing something wrong when converting the Amazon download container to their internal storage format.
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Old 09-11-2013, 07:51 PM   #15
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These Amazon HD downloads are such good quality video that any glitching such as this becomes all that more noticeable. I've been impressed at quality of Amazon downloads compared to my cable provider "HD" channels.
I supposed a workaround for me is to download to 1 of my series 4 units instead. It's too bad these Amazon downloads are blocked for MRS though!
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Old 09-11-2013, 08:02 PM   #16
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I agree, the PQ is phenomenal. Im not downloading much yet because its slow, but stuff like Hell on Wheels is OUTSTANDING and destroys anything Dish Network hopes to do. I cant wait to get into the news Sons of Anarchy stuff.

I have noticed that some of it is 1080p/60 (Luther from BBC and Top Gear US), but other stuff is 1080p/24 (Low Winter Sun and Hell on Wheels).
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Old 09-11-2013, 08:10 PM   #17
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Wow, 1080p/60, are you sure? Ones I downloaded so far (not many) have all been 1080p/24. Note that if you have 1080p output turned on in TiVo outputs and not 1080i then TiVo will upconvert to 1080p/60 unless it gets 1080p/24 which it passes through.
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Old 09-11-2013, 08:15 PM   #18
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It probably depends on how it's shot. Some shows are still shot at 60fps because it makes conversion for TV easier. So the native format might actually be 1080p@60.
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Old 09-11-2013, 08:41 PM   #19
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Yes. Confirmed with display and Denon AVR. Most normal shows shot on film are of course 1080p/24. Copper, which is BBC America is 1080p/24, but Luther being BBC was 1080p/60. Luther looks excellent however its shot.

Newest episode of hell on wheels just blocked up and locked up with 10 mins to go. Deleted and on chat with Amazon getting it resent to tivo. Im unfortunately getting good at these chat thing...

Just watched a episode of Low Winter Sun, and it player without any blocking. Hopefully a tivo elf will see this thread.
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Old 09-11-2013, 09:17 PM   #20
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Fix being tested in Beta

We believe we have fixed this issue in a software update that we are currently testing in Beta. If anyone is interested in joining the Beta in order to verify that the fix is working for them, please sign up here:

https://fieldtrials.tivo.com/signup/default.html

then, email me (margret@tivo.com) with the subject: "Roamio Beta for Amazon fix" and I'll see if I can have you added to the Beta.

--Margret
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Old 09-11-2013, 09:22 PM   #21
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Awesome!!! Glad to know you guys noticed, Im signing up now!
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Old 09-11-2013, 10:26 PM   #22
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Yes I've seen the same issue with amazon downloads to my Roamio base.
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Old 09-12-2013, 12:05 PM   #23
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I got the invitation, but cannot help out testing the beta with the Amazon fix. No personally upgraded drives is one of the rules. :-(

Oh well, good to know they realize its an issue and are working on it.
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Old 09-12-2013, 02:09 PM   #24
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I've also seen this quite a bit. Glad to see a fix coming.
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Old 09-17-2013, 07:20 PM   #25
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I wanted to post back and note, since going to a hardline the file lockups have ceased. It was happening often enough and requiring me to re-download, that there is something here. The pixellation has also diminished a LOT.

All I can say is my problem seems to have been wifi related, unless it just decided to fix itself...
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Old 09-17-2013, 08:45 PM   #26
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Quote:
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Yes. Confirmed with display and Denon AVR. Most normal shows shot on film are of course 1080p/24. Copper, which is BBC America is 1080p/24, but Luther being BBC was 1080p/60. Luther looks excellent however its shot.

Newest episode of hell on wheels just blocked up and locked up with 10 mins to go. Deleted and on chat with Amazon getting it resent to tivo. Im unfortunately getting good at these chat thing...

Just watched a episode of Low Winter Sun, and it player without any blocking. Hopefully a tivo elf will see this thread.
Luther should be 1080i. I'm not aware of any streaming service that has 1080P60. 1080P30 is the highest I've seen and that is from Netflix. From Amazon the highest I've seen is 1080P24.
.
Most of the BBC content I've downloaded from Amazon has been 1080i. While most of the other shows I've watched from other networks is in 1080P24.

UNless Luther was actually 1080P30 and the TiVo can't output 1080P30 so it would send 1080P60 instead.
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Old 09-18-2013, 07:06 AM   #27
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Im not sure, but I have ALL resolutions checked. Seems as if Luther was 1080i, the Tivo would output that.

It is BBC, so the framerate could be something incompatible as you say.

I find it odd everything I have downloaded since going back to Ethernet has solved the blocking and lock up issue. Maybe there are some inconsistencies in the way the wifi is functioning.
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Old 09-19-2013, 01:09 PM   #28
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Im not sure, but I have ALL resolutions checked. Seems as if Luther was 1080i, the Tivo would output that.

It is BBC, so the framerate could be something incompatible as you say.

I find it odd everything I have downloaded since going back to Ethernet has solved the blocking and lock up issue. Maybe there are some inconsistencies in the way the wifi is functioning.
I checked my Roamio Pro last night. It does not seem to be behaving correctly with some of the Amazon content. I could not get the Romaio Pro to output any Amazon content at 1080P24. I downloaded some content that I know is in 1080p24, that my Premieres play back with 1080P24 pass through, and my Roamio Pro would output them in 1080P60. If I only checked 1080p24 and 1080i, then it would only output those shows in 1080i. But when I downloaded the same shows to one ofmy Premiere boxes, it is output in 1080P24.

I only messed around with it for a little while since I had to deal with getting a cable card paired. So i need to give it a fresh look tonight whee I'm not so tired.
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Old 09-19-2013, 01:28 PM   #29
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I checked my Roamio Pro last night. It does not seem to be behaving correctly with some of the Amazon content. I could not get the Romaio Pro to output any Amazon content at 1080P24. I downloaded some content that I know is in 1080p24, that my Premieres play back with 1080P24 pass through, and my Roamio Pro would output them in 1080P60. If I only checked 1080p24 and 1080i, then it would only output those shows in 1080i. But when I downloaded the same shows to one ofmy Premiere boxes, it is output in 1080P24.

I only messed around with it for a little while since I had to deal with getting a cable card paired. So i need to give it a fresh look tonight whee I'm not so tired.
FWIW it's working for me. I just watched a couple of Breaking Bad epsiodes from Amazon downloads on my Pro last night that played as 1080p/24.
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Old 09-19-2013, 02:43 PM   #30
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I had issues on occasion (not very often) with Amazon video I had downloaded to my TiVo Premiere XL. I have experienced a few of the same type of glitches on my Roamio. If I use instant replay the glitches are consistent so it's an issue with the file, not TiVo playback. I figured the video was corrupted during download.
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