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Old 09-09-2013, 09:04 PM   #211
JohnB1000
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The problem Getreal is that it really wasn't excellent, an ep like this is just carried by reputation. In truth BB has high standards and these flaws do not allow the ep to live up to those standards.

Surely you are not suggesting we just blindly love it or not post our issues.?
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Old 09-09-2013, 09:09 PM   #212
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If everything that Walt is doing right now is to insure that his family gets that money, why hasn't he just given the lottery ticket to Skylar? I think an old lottery ticket in the bottom of a women's purse is a lot less conspicuous than it is in a man's wallet.

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Old 09-09-2013, 09:38 PM   #213
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If we're talking about implausibilities, I am not sure that the Walt we know would have blindly accepted Jesse's explanation that he found the money by using the GPS tracking history from Walt's rented van. Has Jesse ever been known to be capable of doing anything like that? Not to Walt. Could Jesse, or pretty much anyone, have been able to do that without involving law enforcement? I don't think so. You either need to have an insider at the rental company, or a warrant.
Or Jessie could have gotten the info at gunpoint. He's good at pointing guns at people.
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Old 09-09-2013, 09:54 PM   #214
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My advice to us true fans of excellence in storytelling: Don't second-guess. Just sit back and enjoy the thrill of the ride. It will all be over before we know it. Let's marvel as the masterpiece unfolds before our eyes.
I agree, especially after watching Under the Dome.
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Old 09-09-2013, 09:56 PM   #215
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I'm not sure I buy that Walt wouldn't have thought to check that the rental van had GPS in the first place.
If it's an internal system for tracking truck rentals and/or employees, Walt might not even know to look. Or if he did, it could be very well hidden. The old Lo-Jack systems were installed in cars very well hidden, they would not even tell the owner where the units were installed. They were installed very stealthfully, and these internal GPS tracking systems could be the same way.
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Old 09-09-2013, 10:09 PM   #216
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Found it, Season 2 Episode 5
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?????

I mean...

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLTTTT????????????

Thanks! I do remember that!

Geez-I guess Jesse has stood up for himself before. Good for him!

But jeez-I couldn't BELIEVE he was trying to get out of the car during the gunfight...STAY IN THE CAR, JESSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 09-09-2013, 10:12 PM   #217
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But jeez-I couldn't BELIEVE he was trying to get out of the car during the gunfight...STAY IN THE CAR, JESSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You want the hit men to kill Jesse after they finish with Hank and Gomez?
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Old 09-09-2013, 10:12 PM   #218
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But jeez-I couldn't BELIEVE he was trying to get out of the car during the gunfight...STAY IN THE CAR, JESSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe he's the only one in Hollywood (including writers and directors) who knows that sheet metal or plastic can't stop bullets, and that it would be safest to get the hell away from there...
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Old 09-09-2013, 10:21 PM   #219
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If it's an internal system for tracking truck rentals and/or employees, Walt might not even know to look. Or if he did, it could be very well hidden. The old Lo-Jack systems were installed in cars very well hidden, they would not even tell the owner where the units were installed. They were installed very stealthfully, and these internal GPS tracking systems could be the same way.
I don't think it matters if it's hidden. If he knew about it, he wouldn't just take it and drive off, and just be oh well, I can't find it. He wouldn't do it in the first place.

He'd go somewhere else.

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Old 09-09-2013, 10:23 PM   #220
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You want the hit men to kill Jesse after they finish with Hank and Gomez?
DURING the fight, YES! I mean-NO! I don't want him to get killed! Stay in the damn car! (Especially since cars are bullet-proof, as we have discussed)

After-if still alive-get the heck out of Dodge!
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Old 09-09-2013, 10:25 PM   #221
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Maybe he's the only one in Hollywood (including writers and directors) who knows that sheet metal or plastic can't stop bullets, and that it would be safest to get the hell away from there...
BA HA HA!

Maybe that will be the ultimate lesson of BB-that Jesse is the smartest one of all!
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Old 09-09-2013, 10:28 PM   #222
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I don't think it matters if it's hidden. If he knew about it, he wouldn't just take it and drive off, and just be oh well, I can't find it. He wouldn't do it in the first place.

He'd go somewhere else.
No doubt, but if it's internal and completely hidden, he'd have no reason to even suspect there's a GPS on board. If he suspected it, he'd either find it, or ask about it and then move on. But I'm saying, he would not even suspect a hidden/internal GPS in a white rental van.
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Old 09-09-2013, 11:14 PM   #223
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After-if still alive-get the heck out of Dodge!
Technically, it's a Chrysler...



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Old 09-09-2013, 11:18 PM   #224
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They usually kill about 47 bad guys in every Strike Back episode but never get shot themselves.
You could tell it wasn't the Strike Back guys because the dialog was more than F!, f!, F!, move!, F!, f!, move move!, coming! f! F! F! F! F! F! cover me!
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Old 09-09-2013, 11:31 PM   #225
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Technically, it's a Chrysler...



LH
Well, unlike Hawaii 5-O, there isn't much gratuitous product placement of vehicles, so....
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Old 09-10-2013, 12:08 AM   #226
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The one thing I found interesting was the parallel storylines of Walt and Jesse using what they think is most important to the other to draw them out. For Walt, it was the money. For Jesse, it was Brock. Both tried to prey on the others weakness, but Jesse's is clearly the more noble.

And, obviously, I was wrong, and Jesse just went after the money to take down Mr White "Where he lives". I think taking down his reputation would have been more interesting, but it's not the path they chose and so I guessed wrong.
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Old 09-10-2013, 12:26 AM   #227
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If everything that Walt is doing right now is to insure that his family gets that money, why hasn't he just given the lottery ticket to Skylar? I think an old lottery ticket in the bottom of a women's purse is a lot less conspicuous than it is in a man's wallet.

-smak-
It'd be hilarious if the Lottery ticket turned out to be a jackpot winner.
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Old 09-10-2013, 12:35 AM   #228
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Old 09-10-2013, 01:04 AM   #229
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It'd be hilarious if the Lottery ticket turned out to be a jackpot winner.
It was a Pick-3 ticket, so it would only win $500.
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Old 09-10-2013, 01:26 AM   #230
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It'd be hilarious if the Lottery ticket turned out to be a jackpot winner.

100th person to say that yet no prize
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Old 09-10-2013, 01:33 AM   #231
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Nevertheless, he cares about the money and only put himself in a position of vulnerability because Jesse lured him there with a threat to the money. IIRC, Jesse did not threaten Walt's family, but just threatened to burn the cash. Whether you are still sympathetic to Walt because of his stated motives for wanting to protect the money is another story. But to say that he is the least responsible for the shootout simply ignores that if Walt was willing to risk the money (dirty money that he has no right to have for that matter), Jesse wouldn't have had any leverage over him. You also seem to be forgetting that Walt had already ordered the hit on Jesse before he even got the phone call about the money. To me, any blame that can be thrown at others pales in comparison to Walt's culpability and until reading your post, it never even occurred to me that someone could conceivably think otherwise.
The reason Walt ordered the hit on Jesse in the first place was because he thought Jesse was threatening his family. Jesse broke into his house, and was going to burn it down. Then he told Walt that that he was going to get him where he really lived. Yes, Walt obviously was also worried about the money. But given that he told Skylar that he was willing to turn himself in, and that he actually was willing to turn himself in to Hank, clearly money wasn't the most important thing to him. He was worried about the money primarily because his family wouldn't be able to get it.

So no, I didn't forget that Walt had ordered the hit on Jesse. And he is definitely responsible for that. But just because he is responsible for that bad thing and other bad things such as poisoning Brock, that doesn't make him responsible for all bad things that happen around him.

The fact remains that of all the people at the shootout, the only one manipulated into being there was Walt.

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Or, he called it off when he thought the full force of the Federal Government was coming down on him. Why have a massive firefight between an Aryan gang and an army, with him in the middle?
But he was still hidden at that point. He could have stayed hidden until they showed up.

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He had no way of knowing Hank and Gomie were off the res, so to speak.
I think he knew that Hank was, which was why he gave Hank the "confession". I suppose Gomez being there might have given him pause that perhaps Hank had eventually decided to come forward. But I think the fact that it was just them two and Jesse made it clear that they were on their own. I doubt the DEA would have let Jesse (or Hank for that matter!) ride out to the location like that. And once they found the spot, there would have been no reason for all the other agents to still remain hidden. They would have shown up, and started spreading out to search for Walt.

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And yet he indisputably found it. (Or so it seemed.) It wasn't A, then B, then C, then D. It was D. Since A, B, and C lead to D, and we know we're at D, then it doesn't really matter what the odds of A, B, and C are, since, well, D.

That was the brilliance of the plan. Hank learned something he really had no business knowing (that Walt had buried the money out in the desert in Home Depot barrels), and built a chain leading to that knowledge that would force Walt to the actual location.
Exactly.

From Walt's point of view, Jesse had no way of knowing that he had even buried the money, let alone that it was in the desert in those kinds of barrels. The only plausible explanation in Walt's mind for Jesse having that knowledge was because he had found the money. So it didn't matter how plausible Jesse's explanation was for how he had found it; it only mattered how plausible the "evidence" was that the money had been found.

The notion that Jesse had worked with Hank to fake his death in order to get a captured Huell to give the details of the barrels and rental company had not entered the realm of even the remotest possibility to Walt.

That, combined with Jesse's threat of burning the money (another brilliant part of the plan), forced Walt to act too quickly to really think things through. Jesse and Hank both knew how methodical Walt was, and thus they knew that the best way to get him to make a mistake was to force him to act quickly.

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Maybe he's the only one in Hollywood (including writers and directors) who knows that sheet metal or plastic can't stop bullets, and that it would be safest to get the hell away from there...
"Yeah science!"
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Old 09-10-2013, 06:33 AM   #232
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...When Saul appeared at the car wash and said "Better Call Saul!" to Flynn, and Walter popped in with the baby, it was the last moment of the whole family being together in one scene (Walt, Skyler, Walt Jr. and Molly), though they had no idea in the moment....
And you know this how?
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Old 09-10-2013, 08:15 AM   #233
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Sad this ended up in a ridiculous shootout. I was hoping this episode would end better than that. I guess we'll see how they start out next episode. I can't see Jesse and Walt NOT being taken hostage by the Aryans to resume cooking, unless Jesse gets killed. But then they wouldn't have built it up like he was going to escape out the back of the car.
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Old 09-10-2013, 09:16 AM   #234
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I only got like 5 minutes to fast forward through to the end of the episode last night (not a full rewatch) - I just wanted to see the shootout scene.

The "music"/audio leading up to the shooting was pretty tense. Overall it felt better than the descriptions here of its implausibility would suggest.
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Old 09-10-2013, 09:40 AM   #235
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That lottery Ticket is so going to win.
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Old 09-10-2013, 09:43 AM   #236
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I find that, the more I am excited about the episode I just watched, and want to share that excitement ... then I come here and start reading the posts. Some are just as excited as I am and share great observations, but then I become increasingly disappointed to read through all of the critical comments about the storyline and suggestions for "better" story ideas. Ugh!! I used to be able to get through all of that, but it is getting less and less pleasurable to want to add my two bits with the overanalyzing and awful second guessing going on.
+1

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The reason Walt ordered the hit on Jesse in the first place was because he thought Jesse was threatening his family. Jesse broke into his house, and was going to burn it down. Then he told Walt that that he was going to get him where he really lived. Yes, Walt obviously was also worried about the money. But given that he told Skylar that he was willing to turn himself in, and that he actually was willing to turn himself in to Hank, clearly money wasn't the most important thing to him. He was worried about the money primarily because his family wouldn't be able to get it.

So no, I didn't forget that Walt had ordered the hit on Jesse. And he is definitely responsible for that. But just because he is responsible for that bad thing and other bad things such as poisoning Brock, that doesn't make him responsible for all bad things that happen around him.

The fact remains that of all the people at the shootout, the only one manipulated into being there was Walt.
I guess we just disagree on how far back you have to go to start laying blame for the shootout. I would look strictly look at the phone call. Once you start going back beyond that, you can always argue to go further. Thus, you think that Jesse trying to burn down the house was the first chain in the link, I would counter with Jesse was reacting to what Walt did to Brock. We can go back and forth all the way to the beginning of the series. To me, Walt made the phone call rather than get back in his car and high tail it out of there, so he's the most to blame and certainly not the least. However, based on your reasoning, I will take back my original statement that I disagree with your assessment as much as anything I've read. I still disagree, but can see where you're coming from.
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Old 09-10-2013, 10:45 AM   #237
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The reason they used the lottery ticket in this episode was simply for ease of quick explanation for the viewers. If they had Walt reciting the coordinates over the phone from memory, you'd have some idiot viewers not understanding what was going on. So in order show how Walt can so quickly know the coordinates, they have him pull out the ticket. Picture is worth a thousand words.
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Old 09-10-2013, 10:52 AM   #238
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Couple of thoughts:

I think Jessie had a second thought (good way) about Walt after Walt tried to warn Hank.

Hank and Gomie obviously didn't go there looking for a shootout or they would have brought more guns and ammo (or even a team). I don't think that the SUV was a "company" vehicle in that it would have had things like a couple of full auto AR-15s in the back.
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Old 09-10-2013, 10:55 AM   #239
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I'm thinking maybe Lydia shows up to save the day. She wasn't too happy with the quality and lack of blue in Todd's meth batch, so I could see the wheels turning in her mind; "How do I get rid of these guys and get Walt's quality back?" Maybe she hires another crew and they show up in the desert just in time to save Walt/Hank/Gomie/Jessie? Otherwise I don't see how Hank and Gomie survive this.
How does she know where they are? How is she aware of the situation?
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Old 09-10-2013, 11:08 AM   #240
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And you know this how?
My thoughts too.

Along with a bit of "who cares?". The last minute a family has together is often quite random and uneventful.
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