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Old 09-05-2013, 05:19 PM   #1
shortcut3d
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Roamio + Mini MoCA or Gigabit

First post. I have decided to change my DVR setup from Windows Media Center (32TB media hub with iSCSI, 6 network tuners, etc.) because of the failed Ceton Echo extender project. I will keep the HTPC for media using XBMC and remove WMC DVR duties. As such, I have a really solid network infrastructure on both Ethernet and Coaxial.

Which is the better solution between the Roamio Plus and Mini? MoCA or Ethernet?

Would MoCA require additional hardware?

I believe removing network traffic from the LAN is always beneficial, but if MoCA has negative side effects on user experience, then Ethernet would be preferred.
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Old 09-05-2013, 05:44 PM   #2
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MoCA additional hardware -- no

I have not had long-term experience with MoCA - just recently used it to replace a wireless link which was slowing program transfers. But I have found no downside so far.

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Old 09-05-2013, 05:47 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shortcut3d View Post
First post. I have decided to change my DVR setup from Windows Media Center (32TB media hub with iSCSI, 6 network tuners, etc.) because of the failed Ceton Echo extender project. I will keep the HTPC for media using XBMC and remove WMC DVR duties. As such, I have a really solid network infrastructure on both Ethernet and Coaxial.

Which is the better solution between the Roamio Plus and Mini? MoCA or Ethernet?

Would MoCA require additional hardware?

I believe removing network traffic from the LAN is always beneficial, but if MoCA has negative side effects on user experience, then Ethernet would be preferred.
There is no user experience degradation by using MoCA, so I would definitely recommend it, if for no other reason than to offload TiVo stream activities from the wired LAN infrastructure.

Like you are proposing, I have a large NAS that streams media to XBMC/Boxee and use the TiVo + Minis for all DVR type activities. I suspect you will find it quite enjoyable.
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Old 09-05-2013, 05:55 PM   #4
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Thanks for the reply. It looks like I will setup MoCA. It was also allow me to remove a switch.

If my understanding is correct, I can use WiFi on the Roamio Plus for guide data and the Mini will get its guide data through the Roamio MoCA connection which is bridged over WiFi? Or at some point do I need a MoCA bridge to my router?

Yep, my media is stored on a Synology DS1813+. I thought about PyTivo on the NAS, but the richness of XBMC interface can't be matched.
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Old 09-05-2013, 05:58 PM   #5
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Ethernet is technically faster, but moca is more than fast enough to handle it too.

As long as your Roamio Plus is connected via ethernet, the Mini won't need any additional hardware for moca. I don't think the integrated wifi will work for the video streaming.
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Old 09-05-2013, 05:59 PM   #6
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Would I also have to change my splitters?

I have a 4-way MoCA enabling splitter (2-2150MHz) and a MoCA POE filter.
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Old 09-05-2013, 06:07 PM   #7
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That should be fine.

The process is pretty easy. With the Roamio Plus connected by ethernet, you just select "Use this DVR to create a MoCA Network" in the network settings, and that should be all you need to get the Mini going.
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Old 09-05-2013, 06:17 PM   #8
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Thanks for the reply. It looks like I will setup MoCA. It was also allow me to remove a switch.

If my understanding is correct, I can use WiFi on the Roamio Plus for guide data and the Mini will get its guide data through the Roamio MoCA connection which is bridged over WiFi? Or at some point do I need a MoCA bridge to my router?

Yep, my media is stored on a Synology DS1813+. I thought about PyTivo on the NAS, but the richness of XBMC interface can't be matched.
I haven't tested with Wi-Fi on the host TiVo but I imagine it works. Certainly it would be preferable to run wired Ethernet to the TiVo, as it will make other things faster such as transfer of shows to your Synology for archiving, etc.
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Old 09-05-2013, 06:41 PM   #9
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MoCA additional hardware -- no

I have not had long-term experience with MoCA - just recently used it to replace a wireless link which was slowing program transfers. But I have found no downside so far.

michael
I've not implement MoCA yet, but I'm trying to keep up with anything I need to know in case I do. Do you at least need to install a POE filter? Also, is there any issue if amps are used or issues if the coax is split at multiple points.
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Old 09-05-2013, 06:50 PM   #10
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I have gigabit hardwired throughout the house. The only time I wish I had MoCA on my mini is when I have some BitTorrent transferring going on. That always kills my network. Caused my Netflix streaming to my Mini to have to rebuffer a couple of times so I just closed my BitTorrent client while I was watching the movie. I don't do this very often so that is why I haven't tried switching to MoCA yet.
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Old 09-05-2013, 06:50 PM   #11
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I've not implement MoCA yet, but I'm trying to keep up with anything I need to know in case I do. Do you at least need to install a POE filter? Also, is there any issue if amps are used or issues if the coax is split at multiple points.
POE filter is recommended yes, at the location where the cable enters the residence. In some cases cable modems already have a POE filter and this suffice.

I am actually not running one but will break down and do it at sometime. For me, I don't have any interference issues that I'm aware of due to using MoCA but it's a security thing about not wanting my neighbors to get onto my network.
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Old 09-05-2013, 06:59 PM   #12
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I have gigabit hardwired throughout the house. The only time I wish I had MoCA on my mini is when I have some BitTorrent transferring going on. That always kills my network. Caused my Netflix streaming to my Mini to have to rebuffer a couple of times so I just closed my BitTorrent client while I was watching the movie. I don't do this very often so that is why I haven't tried switching to MoCA yet.
I'd think it's your internet download bandwidth limit. Not a bottleneck on a gigabit lan.
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Old 09-05-2013, 07:04 PM   #13
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I'd think it's your internet download bandwidth limit. Not a bottleneck on a gigabit lan.
This is my typical speed test...
Down: 27.94 Mb/s
Up: 2.27 Mb/s
Ping: 39 ms

I probably need to somehow limit how much bandwidth my torrents take as they gobble up as much as they can.
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Old 09-05-2013, 07:15 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by scole250 View Post
I've not implement MoCA yet, but I'm trying to keep up with anything I need to know in case I do. Do you at least need to install a POE filter? Also, is there any issue if amps are used or issues if the coax is split at multiple points.
A POE filter is recommended but not mandatory. The potential risks are moca signals interfering with neighbor services or neighbors accessing your network. It also supposedly helps keep your signal strong.

With splitters, they need to be able to pass-through *at least* 1000MHz (1GHz).

Amps should really be placed at the point of entry to avoid any issues. But if that's impossible for some reason, the amp needs to be able to pass through at least 1000MHz 2-way as well if there is a moca device down that coax leg.

Last edited by BigJimOutlaw : 09-05-2013 at 08:35 PM.
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Old 09-05-2013, 07:21 PM   #15
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This is my typical speed test...
Down: 27.94 Mb/s
Up: 2.27 Mb/s
Ping: 39 ms

I probably need to somehow limit how much bandwidth my torrents take as they gobble up as much as they can.
See if your broadband router has QoS settings and limit the BitTorrent traffic.
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Old 09-05-2013, 10:51 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by BigJimOutlaw View Post
That should be fine.

The process is pretty easy. With the Roamio Plus connected by ethernet, you just select "Use this DVR to create a MoCA Network" in the network settings, and that should be all you need to get the Mini going.
Just got my roamio plus and mini. Roamio is set up, cable card paired and all, but I don't see how to activate the moca network. I don't see the setting you mention here... what am I doing wrong? Is there another way to do this? I didn't see anything about moca during guided setup, maybe I missed it.

edit: maybe this is my problem, I'll wait until tomorrow and see what happens - http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=508653

Last edited by swerver : 09-06-2013 at 10:06 AM.
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Old 09-05-2013, 10:56 PM   #17
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Just got my roamio pro and mini. Roamio is set up, cable card paired and all, but I don't see how to activate the moca network. I don't see the setting you mention here... what am I doing wrong? Is there another way to do this? I didn't see anything about moca during guided setup, maybe I missed it.
settings/network/change network settings.

guided setup just used whatever internet connection it had at the time.

-David
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Old 09-06-2013, 02:17 AM   #18
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Cool that option appeared after a little bit, thanks. Really liking the mini so far - but they still need to add on demand and access to pytivo shares, if they wanna claim one box. And hd audio support!
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Old 09-06-2013, 09:23 AM   #19
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Cool that option appeared after a little bit, thanks. Really liking the mini so far - but they still need to add on demand and access to pytivo shares, if they wanna claim one box. And hd audio support!
What good will HD audio support do you when there is no HD audio content available from cable providers?

On Demand already works, at least with Comcast.
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Old 09-06-2013, 09:47 AM   #20
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For pyTivo'ing blu-ray rips to the tivo. h.264 video is transferred without transcoding, but not the audio.

I don't see the xfinity option yet, but I just got the mini yesterday, maybe it will pop up today.
edit: yup xfinity is there now thanks

Last edited by swerver : 09-06-2013 at 10:06 AM.
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Old 09-06-2013, 10:23 AM   #21
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For pyTivo'ing blu-ray rips to the tivo. h.264 video is transferred without transcoding, but not the audio.

I don't see the xfinity option yet, but I just got the mini yesterday, maybe it will pop up today.
edit: yup xfinity is there now thanks
the TiVo is woefully inadequate for handling full BD rips. You would have to transcode them, etc.

Better to just got a box running OpenElec, etc, for that chore, at least if you want BD to actually be in BD quality when you are watching it.
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Old 09-06-2013, 11:30 AM   #22
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I have an htpc hooked up running xbmc, which I like, but I would prefer to be able to just get rid of it and just use the tivo. Like I said, tivo can handle the video portion of a blu-ray fine (in most cases, I don't think it supports vc-1 so those would be transcoded but those don't seem to pop up nearly as often as h.264) it's just the audio support that is missing. I know it's a long shot, but I'll hold out hope... for now... "one box" please...
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Old 09-06-2013, 11:42 AM   #23
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I have an htpc hooked up running xbmc, which I like, but I would prefer to be able to just get rid of it and just use the tivo. Like I said, tivo can handle the video portion of a blu-ray fine (in most cases, I don't think it supports vc-1 so those would be transcoded but those don't seem to pop up nearly as often as h.264) it's just the audio support that is missing. I know it's a long shot, but I'll hold out hope... for now... "one box" please...
Well, I don't want to derail the thread.... but you brought it up.

In addition to TiVo not being able to decode VC1 (requiring transcoding) as well as HD audio I imagine there are some other shortcomings;

1. PGS subtitle support.
2. Forced subtitle flag support.
3. Chapter marker support.
4. Good quality scrubbing.

There are probably others too. Another reason I will pay extra money to have Boxee/HTPC is that if I am in the mood to watch a movie from my collection of about 400 BDs, I don't want to scan a text list, I want to scan through the movies by genre, with box-art, in a nice view.

So.... TiVo for me would absolutely not be palatable as a means to watch my ripped BD collection.
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Old 09-06-2013, 12:30 PM   #24
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Yes other interfaces are nicer, but 1 interface only, for everything is nicer still. I don't use subtitles often, and the tivo transport controls sub nicely for actual chapter markers, which I also don't use much anyway. Admittedly I am a blue-ray rookie and don't have anywhere near 400 rips - perhaps if I reach that amount I would feel differently. Most of my rips are dvds which play great on the tivo, for the most part.

But yeah, haven't got rid of the htpc yet...

sorry back to the topic
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