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Old 09-15-2013, 12:08 PM   #61
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It's not whether this is a good or bad idea. The issue is where does TiVo focus limited programming resources. This has to be pretty far down the list, if it's on the list at all.
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Old 09-15-2013, 01:31 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by gonzotek View Post

You (or a guest or family member) could still tune directly via channel number. If the info banner had a 'switch to hd version' option, I'd consider that to be an improved user experience ...
Precisely. Removing the SD channels from the guide doesn't address the OP's complaint.
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Old 09-15-2013, 01:53 PM   #63
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Precisely. Removing the SD channels from the guide doesn't address the OP's complaint.
Nothing short of TiVo making this 'deficiency' their number 1 priority and 'fixing' it in the next release will address the OP's complaint. Of course, by that time, his children will be so irreparably harmed by the need to remember HD channel numbers, the issue might be moot, except for the class action lawsuit.
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Old 09-15-2013, 02:03 PM   #64
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I wish tivo could simply remove channels from a menu.
I tried to un-check then from channel line up but if you type 2 SD 2 pops up not HD 2.

Either Tivo or Comcast should be able to do something.
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Old 09-15-2013, 02:11 PM   #65
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I wish tivo could simply remove channels from a menu.
I tried to un-check then from channel line up but if you type 2 SD 2 pops up not HD 2.

Either Tivo or Comcast should be able to do something.
Because there is no HD 2.
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Old 09-15-2013, 02:18 PM   #66
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Either Tivo or Comcast should be able to do something.
Perhaps the person pressing the '2' has a role to play? Nah.
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Old 09-16-2013, 12:44 AM   #67
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I did not know that other DVR's did this. I always thought it was crazy that I was expected to keep an ever expanding database of SD/HD channels that change frequently (on Comcast anyway) in my head. In my area there is little correlation between SD and HD numbering. And many channels have 1 low# SD, 1 High# SD, and 1 High #HD. So YES, I admit to watching SD channels sometimes because I just dont feel like trying to find the HD version. These devices are purposefully built around CONVENIENCE, so yeah, I do tend to believe this should be built in... Wait, let me correct myself, their ONLY purpose for existence is CONVENIENCE! Now if TIVO thinks building the OPTIONAL mapping would not be widely accepted as a major improvenent and selling point, then they are out of touch with their customers.

This is from a 10year+ Sub, currently with 4 tivos.
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Old 09-16-2013, 02:36 AM   #68
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Sometimes these forums are really eye-opening. It's surprising to read the number of posts from those that watch Live TV. Not that there's anything wrong with that but I thought the intent of a DVR was for time-shifting and watching TV on one's own schedule. While, at least based on the posts I've seen, there's a certain contingent of users that would benefit from channel mapping, there's another group that wouldn't even notice the feature (like myself). I won't say never, but it's just extremely rare when I watch live TV, and even then, it's usually being recorded by a SP.

Hopefully Tivo has some data on this so they know how to prioritize development of new features. It's interesting because the Tivo has the data and can find the show airing on the HD channel but getting to that UI (Explore shows, upcoming) from a user standpoint isn't ideal for every channel.
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Old 09-16-2013, 06:15 AM   #69
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DevX, I've said this on many occasions, and I'll say it again. Even though I started with TiVo way before most on this forum, having purchased my S1 in November of 1999, I still watch live TV slightly delayed." Both my wife and I watch what is on TV now, first one channel, then with the S3, two channels, bouncing back and forth, and now with 6 tuners, we go all over the place. A lot of it may be season pass material that has started recording, but often we just walk into the house, turn on the TV and tune in the channels we want, if they aren't already there. We are not unique, and it makes as valid a use of TiVo as someone who stores hours and hours of material on their incredibly huge HDs. (I also was very early in putting in larger HDs in both my S1 and S3.) For me there is a certain joy in hearing a song I love on the radio, or seeing a show or movie I wanted to see pop up on TV somewhere. While I had a large collection of albums, both vinyl and CD, I don't download mp3s, nor do I have any VHS, DVDs or BluRays. The one VHS I ever purchased was watched once, and put away to never be viewed again. I like being surprised by finding something on now, whether it be a song, show, movie, etc. But indeed, we do love our regular shows, and TiVo works perfectly for that just the way it is. Oh yes, I'd like the Autotune to HD that the OP is asking for, but given all the other advantages of TiVo, I'm not about to abandon it. I do think it's a great request, but I'm not gonna whine over it.
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Old 09-16-2013, 11:23 AM   #70
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Sometimes these forums are really eye-opening. It's surprising to read the number of posts from those that watch Live TV. Not that there's anything wrong with that but I thought the intent of a DVR was for time-shifting and watching TV on one's own schedule.
There was a poll here a few months ago that we telling on this, the results were something like 60-70% of the users here watched live TV several times each week.

So, while users can obviously use their box however they want, I still think they are crazy. But, others hate suggestions and probably think I'm crazy. I use them in lieu of live TV "surfing" as they are already designed based upon what I record and don't record.
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Old 09-16-2013, 12:17 PM   #71
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I'm new to tivo (about 18 months now) and one thing I didn't expect from this forum is the near constant attempts from the "I never watch live tv" crowd to "correct" the viewing behavior of others. It's similar to the people that will tell you all about how they don't have a tv at all. They bring it up constantly, they want to make sure you know how "advanced" they are. I think they just want to feel superior. Honestly, who cares if someone uses the tivo differently than you do? Give it up people. This is a completely valid and useful feature. That you personally wouldn't use it doesn't mean much at all. It's something simple they could do to make the product better, that's all. It doesn't have to be a #1 priority to improve the product. It's almost like a defense mechanism - everyone here dumps on cable co. dvrs, and rightly so, but in this case one of them provides a useful feature that tivo doesn't, and people act as though tivo is above such a silly feature for silly unadvanced live tv watchers. Instead of just saying, yes that is something tivo could easily do that would make it better, even if I myself wouldn't use it.
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Old 09-16-2013, 12:24 PM   #72
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It's almost like a defense mechanism - everyone here dumps on cable co. dvrs, and rightly so, but in this case one of them provides a useful feature that tivo doesn't, and people act as though tivo is above such a silly feature for silly unadvanced live tv watchers.
I think this would be a difficult feature for Tivo themselves to implement. They would have to know every channel lineup on every cable system and a create substitution map for each channel.

The MSOs are in a much better position to add this functionality. Especially with their own DVRs, they control all the pieces needed to make this happen--knowledge of the channel map and ownership of the hardware.

This solution could easily be implemented with SDV. Any time a device requests an SDV channel, the head end will always return the best-quality version of that network. Tivo the entity doesn't even have to be involved in this channel substitution scheme beyond producing SDV-compliant hardware.
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Old 09-16-2013, 04:07 PM   #73
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Honestly, who cares if someone uses the tivo differently than you do? Give it up people. This is a completely valid and useful feature. That you personally wouldn't use it doesn't mean much at all. It's something simple they could do to make the product better, that's all. It doesn't have to be a #1 priority to improve the product. It's almost like a defense mechanism - everyone here dumps on cable co. dvrs, and rightly so, but in this case one of them provides a useful feature that tivo doesn't, and people act as though tivo is above such a silly feature for silly unadvanced live tv watchers. Instead of just saying, yes that is something tivo could easily do that would make it better, even if I myself wouldn't use it.
I couldn't have said it better myself. I've never understood why some people get all bent out of shape just because someone requests a feature that they don't personally have a use for. They are clearly incapable of taking a step back and realizing that not every single person shares their exact viewpoint. I see this type of confrontational attitude all the time, and it's not just on the TiVo forums. Sadly, there are people like this on all the various online forums I visit.
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Old 09-16-2013, 04:15 PM   #74
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I think this would be a difficult feature for Tivo themselves to implement. They would have to know every channel lineup on every cable system and a create substitution map for each channel.
The easiest solution would be to allow custom mapping by the user.
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Old 09-17-2013, 02:13 PM   #75
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Well there's a zillion things they should implement as options for the user, hell clear QAM channel mapping was a good candidate a few years ago. Most here aren't saying this is a bad idea, just that it's so low down on the list of things they should do because it's not a feature that most here care about, and it's more of a user issue anyway.
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Old 09-17-2013, 05:20 PM   #76
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Gee thanks Rkkeller
And for those who have both HD & SD sets in their house, or a Tivo on one and a cable box on the other - please learn 2 different set of numbers that have no relation to each other for every channel you watch.


It's a simple fix. It should be just as simple to to put a toggle in (setting - Tune to HD equivalent - YES or NO) for those who enjoy torturing themselves learning 3 digit numbers to replace the 1 and 2 digit channels you've been tuning to for 10 years. Tivo provides a directory of channels for every provider. How difficult is it to bind the SD-HD channels for those who prefer a simpler solution?

...and I can see some spouses who are not the "TV person" never breaking their old habits.
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Old 09-17-2013, 05:59 PM   #77
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Even if I still had an SD set i would still be tuning to the HD channels. Just outputting in an SD resolution. I've always preferred to watch a widescreen broadcast even back in the 80's and 90's with video tapes, than have 40% of the picture cut off.

I figure if my GF can adjust to HD channels, then anyone can do it.
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Old 10-14-2013, 11:42 PM   #78
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my Tivo IS mapping HD to SD channel number

Hi,,,I have a Series 3 Tivo with a SDV tuning adapter from Time Warner Cable in Manhattan, New York City. And, annoyingly, it IS mapping the HD version of channels to the lower SD channel number. When I press 4, for example-- the NBC SD station-- it is giving me the HD version from channel 704. When I want Standard Definition CNBC-- Ch 15-- I get the HD version from Ch 715. I just noticed this today.

Why don't I like it? For one, I want to save recording space. One can never have enough space to record, and I don't like being forced to record in HD. Secondly, the HD version of CNBC, for example, has distracting data on the side of the screen I would rather not see. And 3rd, sometimes the HD version of a channel shrinks the image too much and-- if I'm watching on a smaller sized TV screen-- would much rather view the larger SD version.

So, count me in for choice.

I'm not sure if Tivo is doing this, or if it's Time Warner Cable's SDV tuning adapter "telling" the Tivo what to do. I know my TV with a cable card-- without the tuning adapter-- still displays the SD version of channels, as well. As stated above, I don't like being forced to watch the HD version when it takes up dvr space when recording, and based on one's screen size, it is not always the "best" way to view something.
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Old 10-14-2013, 11:45 PM   #79
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Hi,,,I have a Series 3 Tivo with a SDV tuning adapter from Time Warner Cable in Manhattan, New York City. And, annoyingly, it IS mapping the HD version of channels to the lower SD channel number. When I press 4, for example-- the NBC SD station-- it is giving me the HD version from channel 704. When I want Standard Definition CNBC-- Ch 15-- I get the HD version from Ch 715. I just noticed this today.

Why don't I like it? For one, I want to save recording space. One can never have enough space to record, and I don't like being forced to record in HD. Secondly, the HD version of CNBC, for example, has distracting data on the side of the screen I would rather not see. And 3rd, sometimes the HD version of a channel shrinks the image too much and-- if I'm watching on a smaller sized TV screen-- would much rather view the larger SD version.

So, count me in for choice.

I'm not sure if Tivo is doing this, or if it's Time Warner Cable's SDV tuning adapter "telling" the Tivo what to do. I know my TV with a cable card-- without the tuning adapter-- still displays the SD version of channels, as well. As stated above, I don't like being forced to watch the HD version when it takes up dvr space when recording, and based on one's screen size, it is not always the "best" way to view something.
That has nothing to do with TiVo or the tuning adapter. The mapping is provided by the cablecard. In my area Charter maps 2-99 to the digital SD version but I have heard of some companies mapping to the HD version. There is no way around this as the TiVo can only use the mapping data provided.
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Old 10-15-2013, 02:59 AM   #80
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That has nothing to do with TiVo or the tuning adapter. The mapping is provided by the cablecard. In my area Charter maps 2-99 to the digital SD version but I have heard of some companies mapping to the HD version. There is no way around this as the TiVo can only use the mapping data provided.
Hi Rainwater....If the mapping is provided by the cablecard, why is my TV tuner-- a TV which uses a cablecard but NOT using the Tivo/tuning adapter-- showing SD on the given channel while the Tivo/tuning adapter shows the HD version?

All devices - the Tivo, tuning adapter, TV and the cablecards are connected to the same service-- NYC's Time Warner Manhattan.
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Old 10-15-2013, 07:33 AM   #81
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Hi Rainwater....If the mapping is provided by the cablecard, why is my TV tuner-- a TV which uses a cablecard but NOT using the Tivo/tuning adapter-- showing SD on the given channel while the Tivo/tuning adapter shows the HD version?

All devices - the Tivo, tuning adapter, TV and the cablecards are connected to the same service-- NYC's Time Warner Manhattan.
I haven't been a TWC manhattan customer for a long time, but to the best of my recollection this auto mapping behavior is standard on their HD DVR boxes as well. You tune 7 but it pulls in 707 behind the scenes.

My guess is that whatever signal is sent that tells the box/cc to do this must happen in the hdmi handshake. That's the main thing that's missing when you plug your cable card directly into your set. Can't be sure but probably something like that. And likely no way for you to undo this.

Choice indeed would be nice (as I originally requested).
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Old 10-15-2013, 08:02 AM   #82
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Hi Rainwater....If the mapping is provided by the cablecard, why is my TV tuner-- a TV which uses a cablecard but NOT using the Tivo/tuning adapter-- showing SD on the given channel while the Tivo/tuning adapter shows the HD version?

All devices - the Tivo, tuning adapter, TV and the cablecards are connected to the same service-- NYC's Time Warner Manhattan.
Because your tv tuner scans available frequencies to find channels and uses it's analog tuner to show 2-99. Cablecard devices (just like cable company provided boxes) get mapping from the cable headend. There is no way around this requirement. Otherwise you would not have any guide data.

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Old 10-15-2013, 08:26 AM   #83
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I decided a while ago to just use the guide to find my channels.
I know about where in the list the channel I want is located, ie Locals around 431+,
ESPNs near 400, etc.
Pressing guide and channel up/down doesn't take me long to find a channel.
Besides, it gives me a chance to see what else is on.
If it was important that I knew the channel, it would have been set to record.

This is what has worked for me. Everyone is different. I had to learn some new habits when I switched from Dish to Tivo 3.5 years ago when Tivo was lacking a number of features that Dish had then.

I wish there was a way to create a custom ordering for the channels.
I would like to have the sports channels together, movie channels together, local channels together, etc. Comcast spreads them out and alphabetical or numerical listing don't work good, but I work with what I have.

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Old 10-15-2013, 12:12 PM   #84
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I wish there was a way to create a custom ordering for the channels.
I would like to have the sports channels together, movie channels together, local channels together, etc. Comcast spreads them out and alphabetical or numerical listing don't work good, but I work with what I have.

bdog
It's not perfect but try the "What's on now" menu item on the roamio. Like the guide, but grouped by tv shows, movies, sports, and kids. Nice for finding a college football game for instance, when you don't know what channel it's on. I didn't think I'd like it at first but I find myself using it more than the guide lately.
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Old 10-15-2013, 09:12 PM   #85
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The new TW channel schemes implement auto HD selection. We just switched over here in Rochester NY in the 15th. Even if you just enter the analog channel number, like 7, 8, 10, 11 or 13 here on a strictly digital TiVo -- you get the HD version of the channel. And all the channels that previously existed as separate SD and HD version now map to single channel number that provides HD to TiVo's. So it looks like the cable companies are solving the problem for us.
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Old 10-16-2013, 09:19 AM   #86
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The new TW channel schemes implement auto HD selection. We just switched over here in Rochester NY in the 15th. Even if you just enter the analog channel number, like 7, 8, 10, 11 or 13 here on a strictly digital TiVo -- you get the HD version of the channel. And all the channels that previously existed as separate SD and HD version now map to single channel number that provides HD to TiVo's. So it looks like the cable companies are solving the problem for us.
Same here. The TiVo info banner shows 1080i or 720p, although there is no HD logo in the show description.
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Old 10-16-2013, 09:32 AM   #87
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Same here. The TiVo info banner shows 1080i or 720p, although there is no HD logo in the show description.
That is because of the guide data showing the channel as the non-digital version. I would report it to Tribune. If the HD channel is being mapped for all users, then Tribune should update their digital lineup to reflect that.
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Old 10-16-2013, 11:16 AM   #88
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That is because of the guide data showing the channel as the non-digital version. I would report it to Tribune. If the HD channel is being mapped for all users, then Tribune should update their digital lineup to reflect that.
The Guide is not exactly wrong -- if you have a free "Digital Adapter" from TW my understanding is it provides an SD picture to SD sets down to the Basic Cable level. They are preparing to kill the Analog channels altogether and map everybody to the Digital channels.
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Old 10-16-2013, 01:03 PM   #89
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The Guide is not exactly wrong -- if you have a free "Digital Adapter" from TW my understanding is it provides an SD picture to SD sets down to the Basic Cable level. They are preparing to kill the Analog channels altogether and map everybody to the Digital channels.
Does the digital adapter provide channels other than 2-99? Tribune usually has two lineups one for analog and one for digital.
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Old 10-21-2013, 11:10 AM   #90
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swerver,
You're right, not perfect or close.
Fine for looking at what's already playing, but not for upcoming, like shows starting within the hour.
Would have been nice to be able to create your own custom listing, but that is probably a large programming task and not going to happen.
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