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Old 12-24-2014, 12:49 PM   #1
Pacomartin
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Roamio OTA (pennywise pound foolish)

So a Roamio OTA ($50) looks like a regular Roamio ($200 now on sale for $150) which is partly disabled. Both cost $540 ($15*3*12) over 3 years or $500 lifetime. The extra price of the regular Roamio will probably be recoverable if you resell in 3 years, and the OTA will be useless if your situation changes and you want cable.

Am I missing something? Is it just pennywise and pound foolish?

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Old 12-24-2014, 01:09 PM   #2
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So a Roamio OTA ($50) looks like a regular Roamio ($200 now on sale for $150) which is partly disabled. Both cost $540 ($15*3*12) over 3 years or $500 lifetime. The extra price of the regular Roamio will probably be recoverable if you resell in 3 years, and the OTA will be useless if your situation changes and you want cable.

Am I missing something? Is it just pennywise and pound foolish?
The OTA Roamio is geared towards people who only want to pay monthly and wouldn't buy lifetime even if it was available. Once you understand that then it becomes easy to understand that most people will look at the $50 cost and consider it a throw away device when they stop using it.

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Old 12-24-2014, 01:13 PM   #3
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Am I missing something?
No

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Is it just pennywise and pound foolish?
Yes

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Old 12-24-2014, 06:25 PM   #4
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I was interested until I found out I couldn't carry my $9.99 subscription for OTA only with me but no dice.

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Old 12-24-2014, 07:57 PM   #5
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I watch a lot of 1/2 hour time shifting when watching the news, so a OTA Roamio without a subscription works out good. I jump back and forth from 4 tuners as commercials come up. For $50 it works out good after starting the service then canceling it before 30 days. During that time I filled the hard drive with yoga and other stretching type of programs that I watch over and over each day.
I am currently watching the PBS night business report, and when they get to topics I find uninteresting, I put that tuner on pause, and then jump over to the nightly national news, or some other show that I have left on 'pause'. Then I fast forward to the point I want to watch. In that way I don't have to watch segments about shootings, royalty, weather, and other useless #$%^ I have no interest in.

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Old 12-26-2014, 01:03 PM   #6
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... so a OTA Roamio without a subscription works out good...
Very clever. You are probably corporate's worst nightmare, someone who figured out how to make good use of the device for their money losing $50 equipment charge.

I've always felt that there was a market for the "trick play" functions of a DVR.

Did you figure that out before you bought the equipment, after you bought the equipment, or did you read it on a forum?

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Old 12-26-2014, 01:59 PM   #7
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There are a lot of people who pay monthly for TiVo service regardless of the device they have because $500 up front for lifetime is just too much. In fact the vast majority of DVR users rent a DVR from their cable company for $20-$50/mo and don't own the equipment at all. While it may make long term economical sense to buy a regular Roamio with lifetime service a lot of people simply can't afford to lay out $650 in one shot. $50 + $15/mo is a lot easier for them to pallet. Those are the target audience for the OTA.

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Old 12-26-2014, 02:52 PM   #8
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There are a lot of people who pay monthly for TiVo service regardless of the device they have because $500 up front for lifetime is just too much.
I understand that companies target prices at people who care about monthly payments instead of overall price. I am not saying that you shouldn't offer the rate.

But a
1) 3 year note at 9.99% (rate from credit union) for $500 is $16.13/month.
2) 5 year note at 12.75% (rate from credit union) for $650 is $14.71/month.
3) 3 year note at 9.99% (rate from credit union) for $650 is $20.97/month.

But in general, if you were to make this purchase you should buy the Roamio for $200 and $500 lifetime and take a signature loan (option #2 or #3 above). The device is more useful and with a much higher resale value.

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Old 12-26-2014, 03:19 PM   #9
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Very clever. You are probably corporate's worst nightmare, someone who figured out how to make good use of the device for their money losing $50 equipment charge.

I've always felt that there was a market for the "trick play" functions of a DVR.

Did you figure that out before you bought the equipment, after you bought the equipment, or did you read it on a forum?
Before.

I own a bunch of TiVos with Lifetime or Evaluation, but none of them have over 2 tuners. So I wanted the OTA primarily for the 4 tuners for the 1/2 hour skip feature.

I probably am the only one using a OTA like that, but after reading on this forum, it sounds like a lot of people bought the OTA just to use for a parts box for their Roamios. I myself don't own another Roamio.

On another topic, I have tried to give lifetime TiVos to all my friends and family and none are interested. I guess I am the worst salesperson in the world.

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Old 12-26-2014, 06:24 PM   #10
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I probably am the only one using a OTA like that,...
It seems like it would take some planning. You would have to record 2 or 3 hours a day for the first month of things you want to keep for years. So you would have to plan out your recording schedule carefully.

Frankly it never occurred to me to use the four tuners to keep some shows on pause while you circle around at the other stations.

Where I live we only receive one Over the Air HD station with scripted program (PBS). There are 7 standard def stations with religious, business, Spanish children's programs, and some very very old reruns, but they are not the type of networks you normally want to time shift (Heroes and Icons).

While I like PBS, I can watch it on Roku or Chrome, but my 80 year old parents have various degrees of trouble operating Windows and Roku. I thought it would be nice to record PBS as they have no trouble with TiVo interface. But I think $50 +$15/month is a lot to get one channel.

Right now they have cable, but they spend as much money as they do on food. If there is a significant price jump in August, I will have to find an alternative for them.

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Old 12-27-2014, 06:33 AM   #11
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If you are committed to the Tivo universe, lifetime is the lower cost, long-term option. However, if you believe a better option will come along (in less than 3+ years), and you are a cord cutter, OTA and monthly could be the better option, as it minimizes your sunk cost.

Either decision may be logical, depending on your assumptions, and not a sign of stupidity.

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Old 12-27-2014, 06:37 AM   #12
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I understand that companies target prices at people who care about monthly payments instead of overall price. I am not saying that you shouldn't offer the rate.

But a
1) 3 year note at 9.99% (rate from credit union) for $500 is $16.13/month.
2) 5 year note at 12.75% (rate from credit union) for $650 is $14.71/month.
3) 3 year note at 9.99% (rate from credit union) for $650 is $20.97/month.

But in general, if you were to make this purchase you should buy the Roamio for $200 and $500 lifetime and take a signature loan (option #2 or #3 above). The device is more useful and with a much higher resale value.
I understand the economics of it. I've owned at least a dozen TiVos with lifetime over the years. But the average Joe is not going to take out a $650 loan to buy a TiVo to save $0.29/mo. If they don't have the $650 then $50+$15/mo is a viable alternative. As is the $0+$20/mo plans they offer. They're more expensive then lifetime in the long run, but they're still typically cheaper then what you'd pay the cable company for their sh*tty DVR.

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Old 12-27-2014, 07:11 AM   #13
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I was interested until I found out I couldn't carry my $9.99 subscription for OTA only with me but no dice.
Thanks for the post. I have that rate on one of my TiVo's as well, and that is good to know, although I never expected TiVo to ever let me carry it over because it is too good a monthly rate for the Premieres.

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Old 12-27-2014, 11:36 AM   #14
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I was interested until I found out I couldn't carry my $9.99 subscription for OTA only with me but no dice.
TiVo to transferred a 9.99 sub, to a Roamio Basic last week.

The OTA tuner is very good too.
Roamio will tune all Los Angeles OTA channels, connected to a 4 bay bowtie antenna that is indoors!

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Old 12-27-2014, 06:15 PM   #15
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So a Roamio OTA ($50) looks like a regular Roamio ($200 now on sale for $150) which is partly disabled. Both cost $540 ($15*3*12) over 3 years or $500 lifetime. The extra price of the regular Roamio will probably be recoverable if you resell in 3 years, and the OTA will be useless if your situation changes and you want cable.

Am I missing something? Is it just pennywise and pound foolish?
Correct. The OTA is for people who can't do math.

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Old 12-29-2014, 07:31 PM   #16
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Pound foolish? Maybe. At $9.99 per month since November of 2011, I'm into this for $380 so far. That doesn't include the initial purchase of the Premiere of course. In another year I'll reach the point where the $500 lifetime would have been paid for. My main concern back in 2011 was how long is this Tivo Premiere going to last? Is Lifetime worh it? I was a Time Warner customer for several years. We had more than a few DVR's replaced by TWC in that period of time. Right now I'm having occasional freeze issues with the Tivo. Not sure what's up with that. Possible hard drive problem? Don't know but for now I don't think I'm wasting money by not purchasing Lifetime up front. If the Tivo is reliable beyond the next 12 months then yes I would have been money ahead with Lifetime but $9.99 per month isn't much of a hardship. I still smile knowing I'm not paying TWC $90+ every month.

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Old 12-29-2014, 07:52 PM   #17
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TiVo to transferred a 9.99 sub, to a Roamio Basic last week.

The OTA tuner is very good too.
Roamio will tune all Los Angeles OTA channels, connected to a 4 bay bowtie antenna that is indoors!


Very curious about that. Were you using a Premiere before the Roamio? I occasionally use my Sony's TV tuner when the two Premier tuners are busy. There are some very weak stations I use for comparison. The Premiere tuner has always been virtually as good as the Sonys. None of the multipath or other issues I read about elsewhere. If the Roamio tuner is better I'd like to see it.

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Old 12-30-2014, 12:47 AM   #18
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I still smile knowing I'm not paying TWC $90+ every month.
Comparing a DVR that only does OTA to a giant pay TV package is a complete false comparison. The appropriate comparison would be Limited Basic, which is usually $12-$18/mo, depending on the market, plus the $20/mo for DVR, again depending on the market. Then subtract out the un-bundling fee for internet, and Limited Basic with a DVR ends up being about $20/mo. Sure, TiVo on OTA is probably a better product and a better experience, but you have to be fair as to what you are comparing. $15/mo plus $50 for TiVo Roamio OTA isn't really any different from $20/mo for a cable DVR, when you can swap out the cable DVR if it breaks. Once you look at a Roamio Basic with Lifetime, then there's an actual cost savings over Limited Basic with a cable DVR.

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Old 12-30-2014, 01:44 AM   #19
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Comparing a DVR that only does OTA to a giant pay TV package is a complete false comparison.
OK, my cable company gives you the OTA stations (i.e. "limited basic") for free if you purchase 25 Mbps internet for ($40/mo 1st year, $50/mo, $60/mo years 2 & 3). But they are encrypted.

I presume they do this because you must pay at least $10 per TV to unencrypt the TV signal. For $30/mo the cable company offers a TV Series4 500 Gb with 4 tuners and a mini. I presume this last option is the most popular, so people have nearly doubled their first year payment.

Now I can't get anything but PBS with an antenna. But presuming I was located somewhere with better signal, do I have the option of using a mini with Roamio OTA, or do I have to purchase two of them? Presumably I would still want internet.

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Old 12-30-2014, 04:13 AM   #20
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The Mini works with the Roamio OTA.

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Old 12-30-2014, 03:03 PM   #21
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OK, my cable company gives you the OTA stations (i.e. "limited basic") for free if you purchase 25 Mbps internet for ($40/mo 1st year, $50/mo, $60/mo years 2 & 3). But they are encrypted.

I presume they do this because you must pay at least $10 per TV to unencrypt the TV signal. For $30/mo the cable company offers a TV Series4 500 Gb with 4 tuners and a mini. I presume this last option is the most popular, so people have nearly doubled their first year payment.

Now I can't get anything but PBS with an antenna. But presuming I was located somewhere with better signal, do I have the option of using a mini with Roamio OTA, or do I have to purchase two of them? Presumably I would still want internet.
Could you get those channels for no additional cost with the CableCard? That would be a good deal with a Roamio Basic then for those who only want basic channels.

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Old 12-30-2014, 05:03 PM   #22
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Very curious about that. Were you using a Premiere before the Roamio? I occasionally use my Sony's TV tuner when the two Premier tuners are busy. There are some very weak stations I use for comparison. The Premiere tuner has always been virtually as good as the Sonys. None of the multipath or other issues I read about elsewhere. If the Roamio tuner is better I'd like to see it.
I have a Premiere XL4, but it does not tune OTA.
I was using a Series 3 648250 and MhHD 130 pc card.
Neither would tune channels 7, 9, 11 or 13 after the digital conversion was complete.
The Roamio Basic does so I'm happy.
Saves me from buying and installing a new OTA antenna.

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Old 12-30-2014, 05:14 PM   #23
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OK, my cable company gives you the OTA stations (i.e. "limited basic") for free if you purchase 25 Mbps internet for ($40/mo 1st year, $50/mo, $60/mo years 2 & 3). But they are encrypted.

I presume they do this because you must pay at least $10 per TV to unencrypt the TV signal. For $30/mo the cable company offers a TV Series4 500 Gb with 4 tuners and a mini. I presume this last option is the most popular, so people have nearly doubled their first year payment
CableCARDs are cheaper then DTAs. Most cable companies only charge $2-3/mo for them. And with Minis you only need one to feed several TVs.

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Old 01-02-2015, 06:04 PM   #24
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There are a lot of people who pay monthly for TiVo service regardless of the device they have because $500 up front for lifetime is just too much. In fact the vast majority of DVR users rent a DVR from their cable company for $20-$50/mo and don't own the equipment at all. While it may make long term economical sense to buy a regular Roamio with lifetime service a lot of people simply can't afford to lay out $650 in one shot. $50 + $15/mo is a lot easier for them to pallet. Those are the target audience for the OTA.
While I can see that being an issue for some folks, for me the OTA just makes good sense BC "we will never ever get back together" with TWC/Comcast. maybe I'll shelve the Tivo OTA and get back in bed with DirecTV and if that's the case then I'm only out $49.99 and a really nice OTA Antenna.

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Old 01-02-2015, 10:22 PM   #25
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Correct. The OTA is for people who can't do math.
If buying lifetime is absolutely not an option in the budget, the choices are $200 up front plus $15 per month or $50 up front plus $15 per month. OTA always comes out $150 better in that scenario. (Obviously the $0 down $20 per month option costs more than the OTA after 10 months.)

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Old 01-03-2015, 05:24 AM   #26
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While I can see that being an issue for some folks, for me the OTA just makes good sense BC "we will never ever get back together" with TWC/Comcast. maybe I'll shelve the Tivo OTA and get back in bed with DirecTV and if that's the case then I'm only out $49.99 and a really nice OTA Antenna.
Exactly! I cut the catv cord because the content was so bad and so many reruns. I was not getting my money's worth IMHO.
I seriously doubt I'll ever be a catv or sat tv subscriber again. And I can draw direct comparisons in cost when I never watched 90% of those channels. A smorgasbord isn't such a great deal if you aren't very hungry or the food is terrible

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Old 01-03-2015, 10:57 AM   #27
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If buying lifetime is absolutely not an option in the budget, the choices are $200 up front plus $15 per month or $50 up front plus $15 per month. OTA always comes out $150 better in that scenario. (Obviously the $0 down $20 per month option costs more than the OTA after 10 months.)
For people who can do math, $700 up front and $0/mo is a much better deal than either of those two options. And if they can't afford a TiVo, they shouldn't be buying a TiVo. Channelmaster has a much cheaper option for recording OTA, and there's also MCE if you have an old PC laying around.

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Old 01-03-2015, 01:01 PM   #28
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For people who can do math, $700 up front and $0/mo is a much better deal than either of those two options. And if they can't afford a TiVo, they shouldn't be buying a TiVo. Channelmaster has a much cheaper option for recording OTA, and there's also MCE if you have an old PC laying around.
Don't forget that you can convert to lifetime in the future--while lifetime is not an option up front on the OTA, there is no reason to think that they wouldn't take your money down the road to retain you as a customer, the same way you can pay $99 for lifetime service on a Premiere today. Might have slightly lower resale value, but should be enough to cover the $50 investment.

And just because you can't afford the equivalent of a mortgage payment on day one doesn't mean you can't afford Tivo.

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Old 01-03-2015, 01:49 PM   #29
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And if you want more than one TV hooked up, you would def. be better off paying the $700 and getting minis than doing two or three OTA boxes and paying $15 each on them.

Dawn

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For people who can do math, $700 up front and $0/mo is a much better deal than either of those two options. And if they can't afford a TiVo, they shouldn't be buying a TiVo. Channelmaster has a much cheaper option for recording OTA, and there's also MCE if you have an old PC laying around.

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Old 01-03-2015, 02:46 PM   #30
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And if you want more than one TV hooked up, you would def. be better off paying the $700 and getting minis than doing two or three OTA boxes and paying $15 each on them.

Dawn
Mini works with OTA... incorrect info at launch started the rumor that it didn't.

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