TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Roamio DVRs
TiVo Community
Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old 09-01-2013, 01:14 PM   #1
consumedsoul
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 142
Combining antennaes?

I use a Roamio basic combined w/ a Mohu antennae (amplified) and am not getting solid signals on a couple stations unless I move it to another indoor location, but if I do then the other stations lose signal - any chance I can purchase another Mohu antennae (same model), get a splitter and put both antennas in their respective locations to get a 'consolidated/combined' better signal? Sorry I'm totally ignorant in this area.

Or should I be looking to purchase a better OTA antennae?
__________________
Roamio Basic / Stream / Comcast Xfinity
consumedsoul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 01:29 PM   #2
Scooby Doo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 96
No, you can't combine antennas. Get a better antenna, preferably an outdoor one.
Scooby Doo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 01:32 PM   #3
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 24,492
I have one of these...

http://www.amazon.com/Amplified-High.../dp/B0007MXZB2

and it works pretty good. I tried one of those flat ones years ago and couldn't pick up much of anything. This one picks up all stations in my areas with 70%+ signal.

If that doesn't work then an outdoor or attic mount antenna would be the next step.
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 01:32 PM   #4
consumedsoul
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby Doo View Post
No, you can't combine antennas. Get a better antenna, preferably an outdoor one.
What if I live in an Apt and am restricted to indoor, any better models you can recommend vs. a Mohu?
__________________
Roamio Basic / Stream / Comcast Xfinity
consumedsoul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 01:42 PM   #5
janry
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 17,688
I've combined antennas before using a splitter with some degree of success. I'll just say you aren't going to hurt anything to try except the cost of the 2nd antenna and splitter if you don't already have them.

However, I suggest you get a TVFool report and see what it suggest.

http://www.tvfool.com/

Last edited by janry : 09-01-2013 at 02:17 PM.
janry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 01:51 PM   #6
Davelnlr_
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: North Little Rock
Posts: 505
IF the two (unamplified) antennas are directional (the indoor ones usually are not), and you can aim them in such a way as each one nulls out the stations the other is picking up, and assuming the signal strength is good on both for their respective stations, the splitter method will work.

What usually happens is the same station will be picked up by both antennas, and when combined, will be slightly out of phase and cancel each other out, or worse, add together with slightly different timing causing digital dropouts (used to be ghosts in the analog days).

Even in an apt, you can usually get a 4 bay screen antenna and some good quality coax, and mount the antenna high up in a closet, and run the coax to the tv. This would work much better for most people than gimmick antennas with built in amplifiers which usually amplify more noise than signal. If the signal isnt present at the antenna terminal, no amount of amplification is going to help. Amplification is basically used to boost the signal AND some amount of noise to overcome the attenuation in long coax runs to the TV, or where the signal is split to multiple rooms. Except in the case of satellite reception, amplifiers are usually not designed to do what most people think they do.
Davelnlr_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 03:20 PM   #7
Joe Siegler
Registered User
 
Joe Siegler's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Garland, TX
Posts: 691
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
I have one of these...

http://www.amazon.com/Amplified-High.../dp/B0007MXZB2

and it works pretty good. I tried one of those flat ones years ago and couldn't pick up much of anything. This one picks up all stations in my areas with 70%+ signal.

If that doesn't work then an outdoor or attic mount antenna would be the next step.
I had one of those (amongst others) in trying to find a good antenna for my home, and found out that they don't work for me due to interference in the walls. I wrote about my trials picking the right antenna here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by janry View Post
I've combined antennas before using a splitter with some degree of success. I'll just say you aren't going to hurt anything to try except the cost of the 2nd antenna and splitter if you don't already have them.

However, I suggest you get a TVFool report and see what it suggest.

http://www.tvfool.com/
I'll back that. I love tvfool's reports. Antennaweb has gotten better lately, but tvfool still has more info and types of maps available.
__________________
Joe Siegler -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

TiVo Roamio 75hr unmodified, TiVo Roamio 316hr/2TB, both OTA only.
Joe Siegler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 03:26 PM   #8
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 24,492
When I bought the antenna I lived in a place with no access to the attic, so I had to go with something I could attach directly. If I were buying one now I'd probably go for an attic mount one because I have easy access to the attic. But it sounds like the OP lives in an apartment so he's pretty much stuck with something her can keep in doors. Although I have heard of people putting those attic mount ones in closets and having them work. If he can't get a good signal from a TV top one that may be the next step.
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 04:26 PM   #9
Joe Siegler
Registered User
 
Joe Siegler's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Garland, TX
Posts: 691
Those flat ones can work better in a window in an apartment, but it all depends on what direction the window is facing, obviously.
__________________
Joe Siegler -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

TiVo Roamio 75hr unmodified, TiVo Roamio 316hr/2TB, both OTA only.
Joe Siegler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 05:01 PM   #10
StevesWeb
Grumpy Old Geek
 
StevesWeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Geek Hill, Corona, CA USA
Posts: 405
The indoor antenna that Dan203 linked to above gave me much better results in my previous home than any of the amplified type.

The 4 bay bowtie Davenlr suggests was my standard suggestion to customers when I was a TV repairman.
__________________
Roamio basic OTA w/3TB WD
Roamio basic OTA w/2TB WD
Tivo mini
StevesWeb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 04:45 AM   #11
consumedsoul
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 142
Picked up a Clearstream Micron XG (Antennas Direct) from Best Buy to try to replace my Mohu, getting more consistent signals from ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox (the 4 I mainly care about), and no longer getting solid signals from PBS/CW (the 2 I don't mind not having).

Set it to one level (4 strengths available) of 'amplification' for stronger signal on some stations, any more doesn't really add benefit.

Interesting effect, I had it sitting next to the HD TV, I moved it behind it and the strength levels actually went up (around +5 to +10) on all stations (bizarre) according to TiVo's channel strength indicator.

Some stations are still a bit/slightly 'noisy' if you look up really close (e.g. at TV station static logos that's there), but otherwise very watchable.

Going to buy a couple more units from Best Buy to experiment tomorrow...
__________________
Roamio Basic / Stream / Comcast Xfinity
consumedsoul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 06:42 AM   #12
tenthplanet
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 343
The mohu is primarily a UHF antennae so if you are trying get VHF you would have to something designed for both. If you're trying indoor antennaes you need something that has rabbit ears and a loop at a minimum. The problem you're running into is fairly common. A little trial and error with a long enough cable to move the antennae around can work wonders sometimes.
__________________
"It's tough thinking of something clever to write down here, I don't know how Chuck Lorre does it..."
tenthplanet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 06:53 AM   #13
Leon WIlkinson
TiVo Gone Wild
 
Leon WIlkinson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: TiVo Town
Posts: 1,269
So how good is the Roamio Tuner, >= Premiere or >= to a TiVoHD?
__________________
After 20 attempts, I can do almost anything? ;)
Leon WIlkinson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 06:56 AM   #14
tenthplanet
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by consumedsoul View Post
Picked up a Clearstream Micron XG (Antennas Direct) from Best Buy to try to replace my Mohu, getting more consistent signals from ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox (the 4 I mainly care about), and no longer getting solid signals from PBS/CW (the 2 I don't mind not having).

Set it to one level (4 strengths available) of 'amplification' for stronger signal on some stations, any more doesn't really add benefit.

Interesting effect, I had it sitting next to the HD TV, I moved it behind it and the strength levels actually went up (around +5 to +10) on all stations (bizarre) according to TiVo's channel strength indicator.

Some stations are still a bit/slightly 'noisy' if you look up really close (e.g. at TV station static logos that's there), but otherwise very watchable.

Going to buy a couple more units from Best Buy to experiment tomorrow...
As weird as it sounds sometimes a properly placed person can help reception, this goes to back the days of analog tv. People can be like super aluminum foil. Since no one wants to play reflector for any amount of time you might want to try some foil on a piece cardboard in the place where you were standing.
__________________
"It's tough thinking of something clever to write down here, I don't know how Chuck Lorre does it..."
tenthplanet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 09:08 AM   #15
StevesWeb
Grumpy Old Geek
 
StevesWeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Geek Hill, Corona, CA USA
Posts: 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon WIlkinson View Post
So how good is the Roamio Tuner, >= Premiere or >= to a TiVoHD?

I hope to be able to help answer this question after Thursday when my Roamio arrives.

My existing Premiere XL receives 133 digital channels but only after I bought a new outdoor antenna. Compared to the HDHomerun, older Sling with ATSC tuner, and my Panasonic TV the Premier has always performed worst. Channels which were consistently fine on other tuners would suffer loss of sync on the Premiere XL.
__________________
Roamio basic OTA w/3TB WD
Roamio basic OTA w/2TB WD
Tivo mini
StevesWeb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 09:40 AM   #16
ncbill
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
Posts: 170
IMHO, the Roamio is better than the Series 3 at OTA.

I can pick up one out of market (transmitters roughly 60 miles away) station with the TivoHD, but 3 add'l from that market with the Roamio.

And that's with splitting the signal from a 2-bay antenna between two Tivos.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon WIlkinson View Post
So how good is the Roamio Tuner, >= Premiere or >= to a TiVoHD?

ncbill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 10:03 AM   #17
9300170
Registered User
 
9300170's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Enfield, CT
Posts: 171
A "jointenna" will allow you to combine two antennas to receive one additional frequency. I've used one for years.

http://www.warrenelectronics.com/Ant...Jointennas.htm
9300170 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 11:07 AM   #18
k2ue
Retired RF Engineer
 
k2ue's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Victor, NY
Posts: 648
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9300170 View Post
A "jointenna" will allow you to combine two antennas to receive one additional frequency. I've used one for years.

http://www.warrenelectronics.com/Ant...Jointennas.htm
This the correct way to do it -- using a simple combiner/splitter will cost you 3-4dB SNR on all channels, plus add multipath problems.
__________________
Roamio Pro/w Slide Remote, Cisco TA, iScan Duo, Epson 5020UB, Draper 80" Triggered Screen, TiVo Mini,
Oppo BDP103, Denon AVR1713, DT ProCenter 1000+ProCinema 800's, TSS-SUB4000, 4x Harmony 700
k2ue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 02:18 PM   #19
MikeAndrews
Registered abuser
 
MikeAndrews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Northern Illinois (Dn Nr WI)
Posts: 11,894
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby Doo View Post
No, you can't combine antennas. Get a better antenna, preferably an outdoor one.
You CAN combine antennas that are aimed in different directions just by using a 2-way splitter connected backwards. Your only issue is making sure the beam is narrow so you minimize multipath (ghosting) with both antennas seeing the same transmitters, which is less of an issue with a digital signal.
__________________
1) Series 4 Premiere - Lifetime
2) Series 3 OLED - Lifetime.
2) Series 2 DT 500GB
Mac Mini NAS with 9 7 x 2TB drives.
UVerse and OTA

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MikeAndrews is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 04:41 PM   #20
A J Ricaud
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Hacienda Heights, CA (Los Angeles County)
Posts: 1,064
I'm using this one with good results:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2
A J Ricaud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 04:51 PM   #21
MikeAndrews
Registered abuser
 
MikeAndrews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Northern Illinois (Dn Nr WI)
Posts: 11,894
A Winegard combiner that isn't channel specific.
http://www.amazon.com/Winegard-CC-78...tenna+combiner

It works. Read the reviews.
__________________
1) Series 4 Premiere - Lifetime
2) Series 3 OLED - Lifetime.
2) Series 2 DT 500GB
Mac Mini NAS with 9 7 x 2TB drives.
UVerse and OTA

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MikeAndrews is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 05:04 PM   #22
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 24,492
How's that work? Does it just detect which antenna has the strongest signal on each frequency and then pass that one through?
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 05:12 PM   #23
Scooby Doo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 96
Those Winegard combiners provide impedance matching which solves part of the problem of combining antennas, but they don't fix the multipath problem. As others have said, you may get satisfactory results if you are using highly directional antennas and know what you are doing. But for most people they aren't a good solution.
Scooby Doo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 05:37 PM   #24
aaronwt
HD Addict
 
aaronwt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Northern VA(Woodbridge)
Posts: 13,647
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby Doo View Post
No, you can't combine antennas. Get a better antenna, preferably an outdoor one.
OF course you can combine antennas. It just needs to be done properly to avoid issues. I have two Square Shooter antennas mounted outside my condo that have been combined since Spring 2004. Although My OTA only Premiere is the only box that uses them now. But without both of the antennas being combined, I would not receive all of the major stations in the area. I combine all frequencies.
__________________
Roamio Pro
TiVo Mini x3
Roamio Basic OTA
39TB unRAID1--53TB unRAID2--36TB unRAID3
XBL/PSN: WormholeXtreme
aaronwt is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 05:51 PM   #25
Scooby Doo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 96
The OP was using omnidirectional indoor antennas. No, you can't sensibly combine these.
Scooby Doo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 07:29 PM   #26
MikeAndrews
Registered abuser
 
MikeAndrews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Northern Illinois (Dn Nr WI)
Posts: 11,894
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
How's that work? Does it just detect which antenna has the strongest signal on each frequency and then pass that one through?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby Doo View Post
Those Winegard combiners provide impedance matching which solves part of the problem of combining antennas, but they don't fix the multipath problem. As others have said, you may get satisfactory results if you are using highly directional antennas and know what you are doing. But for most people they aren't a good solution.
For me I'd aim one antenna south at Chicago and one north at Milwaukee. This discussion may make me get off of tail and get something up before winter.

I'd think you could solve any multipath issues by adding specific antennuator(s) on the unwanted channel(s) on the antenna that's getting the signal on the side.
__________________
1) Series 4 Premiere - Lifetime
2) Series 3 OLED - Lifetime.
2) Series 2 DT 500GB
Mac Mini NAS with 9 7 x 2TB drives.
UVerse and OTA

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MikeAndrews is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump




Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVoŽ is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:23 PM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |