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Old 09-07-2013, 10:16 PM   #31
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What about this:

"Microsoft moves into TV
I can't argue with TiVo as it stands right now, but over the longer term, the company looks to be facing competition from a number of heavy-hitting tech giants. TiVo excels at standing in between consumers and cable providers, but other companies, such as Microsoft , are about to enter that space.

The upcoming Xbox One is far more than a video-game console. Rather, as its name suggests, it aims to be the one device consumers turn to for all of their entertainment needs. When Microsoft unveiled the device, it actually focused more on its TV capabilities than its gaming prowess.

By attaching an existing cable box to the Xbox One, cable subscribers can access their content through hand gestures and voice commands. Simply saying, "watch HBO" will change the channel. The Xbox One serves up recommendations, and lets owners see trending shows and movies. It allows for multitasking, Internet browsing, and live voice calls. Microsoft has partnered with the NFL for fantasy football, and plans to roll out additional features in the future.

At $500, it's more expensive than the Roamio, but unlike TiVo's offering, it can play the latest console games. For someone with the money to spend on the ultimate TV experience, the Xbox One might be the better buy."

From here: http://www.dailyfinance.com/2013/09/03/tivos-roamio/

I don't know about all you guys, but as I'm writing this and I'm currently hooking up my new pro as we speak, and I also have a couple SD HDHR Prime 3CC tuners with WMC and Xbox extenders (and most likely an XBone coming in November for my son), I get a sick feeling that if I keep the TiVo Roamio Pro, even though I can loop it thru the XBone, that it'll have so much other tech and options in it that I'm going to feel like I wasted a crap ton of $$$ on it along with the Minis and Lifetime service?

PLEASE someone reassure me that my future visions (which have been surprisingly very accurate over the years I might add!) may be skewed or incorrect. :-/

Mahalo,
Dave "torn between 2 awesome geek toys" Harper
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Old 09-08-2013, 10:43 AM   #32
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Dave I have the same anxieties as you. I have a feeling that sooner or later either a PS4 or XBO (or appletv...) will eliminate the need for a separate cable box entirely via OTT apps (I think the hdmi passthrough of the XBO, combined with IR repeaters and double overlays is a poor solution).

In the meantime though I will enjoy my Roamio Plus. And, my gut is that it will be in the range of at least a couple-3 years before an app based solution offers *all* the features of the TiVo, if ever.
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:54 AM   #33
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Thanks Anthony! I'm not so much worried about OTT replacing broadcast cable DVR just yet. What i mean is, why wouldn't I just use my HDHomerun Primes and my PC with WMC and XBox 360 extenders for now, and then add the XBone into the mix in Nov? I've been messing with my son's 360 and I gotta tell you the GUI, interface, integration and OTT apps and performance are pretty impressive and it's only going to get better once XBone is released. I have Time warner and they just released their app for the 360 to watch over 300 channels, they have a very cool ESPN app, FOXNow, TV news apps and all the regular apps like netflix, hulu, vudu, amazon, plays your home media, etc etc etc.

I just have this gut feeling that if not immediately, then soon after release that there will be some cool interaction with your 360s and most importantly for this forum's clientele, the hub of your whole home media system including using external Ethernet or USB tuners and HDDs as a stop gap to what you're saying with OTT apps replacing it eventually.

I personally think this change in TV is happening a lot sooner than many people here think and Microsoft is a LOT bigger to be able to roll with these changes than TiVo can. Don't get me wrong one bit though, I LOVE me some TiVo too!!! I just can't shake these feelings.

Cheers,
Dave "are you ready for some football!!!" Harper
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Old 09-08-2013, 06:41 PM   #34
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I don't think TiVo will go away. I think Apple probably has a better shot of making a dent than Microsoft does.

Remember, Microsoft was going to take control of everything with the MSN TV back in the day, and also with the Zune to dethrone the iPod, and the Surface kill the iPad. We'll see how much of an impact it really has.
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Old 09-09-2013, 12:58 PM   #35
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I'd agree with you in those other points, but their Xbox platform is a whole other story and is wildly successful.
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Old 09-09-2013, 03:14 PM   #36
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I hear you about interface and performance. I use a ps3 for both bluray and all non-iTunes media streaming...amazon, Netflix, Vudu and they all work phenomenally.

I've eyed the TWC app situation on Xbox with envy. I have family who are subs and would check it out if they ever rolled it out on PS3 (or 4...)
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Old 09-09-2013, 10:35 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by anthonymoody View Post
I hear you about interface and performance. I use a ps3 for both bluray and all non-iTunes media streaming...amazon, Netflix, Vudu and they all work phenomenally.

I've eyed the TWC app situation on Xbox with envy. I have family who are subs and would check it out if they ever rolled it out on PS3 (or 4...)
Egg-zackley!!!
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Old 09-09-2013, 10:39 PM   #38
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This may all be a moot point for me anyway cuz I'm having the tuning and black screen issue on my pro, so I hooked up my hdhr prime, paired the cable card with it and have been testing windows MC and the very same channels I had so many issues tuning on the TiVo come popping right up in milliseconds in Media Center! The hardware may be making my decision for me. :/
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Old 09-10-2013, 08:44 AM   #39
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Sometimes I wish I didn't hate windows so much
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Old 09-10-2013, 09:24 AM   #40
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WEll the Time Warner app doesn't time shift nor skip commercials.

The ESPN app is great for watching content they aren't showing on the ESPN channels, but I found the picture to be substandard. And the controls to skip through the video to be substandard as well.

The WMC experience won't change with the xbox one so ...not seeing the problem here.

You either want WMC or Tivo. Want to time shift programs and skip commercials or not.
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Old 09-10-2013, 01:19 PM   #41
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WEll the Time Warner app doesn't time shift nor skip commercials.

The ESPN app is great for watching content they aren't showing on the ESPN channels, but I found the picture to be substandard. And the controls to skip through the video to be substandard as well.

The WMC experience won't change with the xbox one so ...not seeing the problem here.

You either want WMC or Tivo. Want to time shift programs and skip commercials or not.
I think you and many others are missing the entire point of the thread. I'm NOT talking about just the WMC experience that I and so many people have been using for years with a pc and extenders. Sure, that's the first, interim stage of this, but what I AM talking about is whether the XBox One will REPLACE the current PC portion of that setup (using an external Ethernet or USB cable card tuner and external hard drive (geez how many times do I have to say that in is thread?!?!?!), a la' the Ceton, Silicon Dust, ATI, etc), which we already know from a GUI standpoint is a much different experience for the guide, etc. than the current Windows Media Center. Then you can use the XBox 360s as extenders and media hubs at each of your other TVs which is where you get your LIVE TV, PAUSED TV, TIME SHIFTED RECORDED TV, apps such as TWC, espn, Netflix, Hulu, amazon, etc etc etc.(similar to a roku and many more than TiVo currently or may ever have!) Then of course there's the whole IPTV possibilities. I could go on and on.

I KNOW you can't time shift or skip commercials within those apps, but you're also missing the point there as well. Those apps are an ADDED BONUS to the DVR functionality you're already getting with the tuner, e-HDD, XBone, 360 setup I just mentioned above! Imagine you have an HDHR Prime 3CC which only has 3 tuners, and 2 are recording and someone else is watching the third, well NOW you can and have the option of watching another channel of live TV with the TWC or espn apps, without another physical tuner!

What I see is TiVo "promising" a lot, which does sound cool, but right now Microsoft already has it, and is a LOT bigger company which bodes well for research and implementation of future technologies and capabilities.

Are you seeing the problem NOW? Is anyone even really reading this whole thread? I guess a few hundred years ago you would've told me the world is flat if I would've mentioned I believe there's strong evidence that its round.

So, you either want to try to understand what I'm trying to get across here, or not. Want to move into the future, or not.
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Old 09-10-2013, 01:55 PM   #42
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Well sure there's lots of boxes that can run apps but none of them other than an HTPC can do it alongside WMC (and that won't change since the Xbone won't do WMC), so what's your point?

At best the Xbone will be yet another streamer and possibly a crappy cloud-based DVR, but it won't work as you dream it will. And it will actually be worse without WMC.

Agree that once we move past all this Cablecard nonsense into the IPTV streaming world, Tivo will look like a sad sack compared to just about everyone else, EXCEPT that it will still be a great DVR. You can't say that about anything else at this point, including the Xbone. It's just wishful thinking at this point that the Xbone could ever replace a Tivo, or even that MS would want it to.
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Old 09-10-2013, 02:15 PM   #43
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Well sure there's lots of boxes that can run apps but none of them other than an HTPC can do it alongside WMC (and that won't change since the Xbone won't do WMC), so what's your point?

At best the Xbone will be yet another streamer and possibly a crappy cloud-based DVR, but it won't work as you dream it will. And it will actually be worse without WMC.

Agree that once we move past all this Cablecard nonsense into the IPTV streaming world, Tivo will look like a sad sack compared to just about everyone else, EXCEPT that it will still be a great DVR. You can't say that about anything else at this point, including the Xbone. It's just wishful thinking at this point that the Xbone could ever replace a Tivo, or even that MS would want it to.
My point is, no one knows that for sure as its an evolving platform that hasn't even been released yet. And you just hit the nail right on the head for the purpose of this thread......it's a "what if" hypothetical discussion and in my mind always has been. When I posted it I was just seeking out anyone who may have more information than I currently did about the XBone's TV potential, and apparently no one here does, so just forget it. I'm just trying to evaluate whether there's a real possibility in the not too distant future that if I purchase my TiVo pro, 3 minis and lifetime for all that I'm not essentially flushing most of the costs invested down the toilet ($1750+) "should" the XBone theory I surmised happens to pan out. There is some evidence that indeed it "may"!

I quote from their website:

"** Supported television tuner OR cable/satellite set top box with HDMI output and HDMI cable required (all sold separately)."

Oh yeah, I haven't even mentioned the fact that there's also an Internet browser (IE) and their partnership with the NFL which "could" also mean something similar to NFL Sunday Ticket on it, amongst other things.

I guess no one here knows any more than I do, so it's all moot even discussing it here. To me this is a similar discussion to people asking a few months back if they should buy a premiere 4 and minis with the imminent release of a new TiVo series 5 coming. I'll decide on my own and just wait until its released to see what the future holds.
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Old 09-10-2013, 02:26 PM   #44
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Well sure there's lots of boxes that can run apps but none of them other than an HTPC can do it alongside WMC (and that won't change since the Xbone won't do WMC), so what's your point?
So WMC was, is and will forever be the ONLY thing to ever have the capability to accomplish this? THAT is my point!

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At best the Xbone will be yet another streamer and possibly a crappy cloud-based DVR, but it won't work as you dream it will. And it will actually be worse without WMC.
Well I'm certainly glad you're able to see into the future! Can you tell me which stocks are about to hit it big soon and what the name and sex of my first grandchild will be? :-/
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Old 09-11-2013, 04:12 AM   #45
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X-Box One is game machine at it's core. Buy it to play Halo. DVR like functions are vaporware.
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Old 09-11-2013, 07:10 AM   #46
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Exactly.
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Old 09-11-2013, 07:12 AM   #47
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I'm just trying to evaluate whether there's a real possibility in the not too distant future that if I purchase my TiVo pro, 3 minis and lifetime for all that I'm not essentially flushing most of the costs invested down the toilet ($1750+) "should" the XBone theory I surmised happens to pan out. There is some evidence that indeed it "may"!

I quote from their website:

"** Supported television tuner OR cable/satellite set top box with HDMI output and HDMI cable required (all sold separately)."
Uh yeah, for HDMI passthrough with overlays, not as a DVR (see: Google TV). That's the point you keep missing when comparing it to a Tivo setup. The Xbone as DVR is simply wishful thinking not backed by anything that MS has said about what it will do, TV-wise.
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Old 09-11-2013, 08:02 AM   #48
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X-Box One is game machine at it's core. Buy it to play Halo. DVR like functions are vaporware.
Isn't the XBOne supposed to constantly record the most recent five minutes of gameplay? I think the PS4 is doing the last 15 minutes?
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Old 09-11-2013, 08:09 AM   #49
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I think it's less about what has or hasn't specifically been said than it is (for me) a contemplation of where things may be headed given current trends. It's not enough for me to hold off - indeed I'm a (mostly) happy owner of a Roamio Plus. Once the cc firmware issues have been sorted and I can use all 6 tuners I'll be even happier. And happier still when the Opera App Store and place shifting are enabled.

Fwiw I still see no reason that DVR functionality couldn't be baked into a cable co OTT app on an XBO or ps4. I'd prefer it to use local storage rather than be cloud based, but either is technically possible afaik.

All said another way, I'd happily take a Roamio that had a BR player built in and call it a day. Or, similarly, an XBO/ps4 with an OTT cable co/DVR app built in and call it a day.

And that would still leave me with 2 boxes bc I'd still use an appletv for all my iTunes locked content.
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Old 09-11-2013, 03:03 PM   #50
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The XBox One is basically a PC, so anything is possible. It even runs a version of Windows 8 and allows 3rd party app development, so it's likely we'll see apps from developers like SiliconeDust and CETON to use their external tuners for live TV viewing on the XB1. However DVR functionality requires background processing at the OS level. So the only one that's going to be able to add true DVR functionality is MS. And as of right now they have not even hinted at the possibility. It's something they could do in the future, but who knows when/if that will ever happen. I certainly wouldn't count on it.
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Old 09-11-2013, 04:02 PM   #51
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I guess we shall see then, huh? It's still an interesting dilemma and I believe worthy of discussion and consideration when making an expensive decision such as this.
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Old 09-11-2013, 05:00 PM   #52
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I guess we shall see then, huh? It's still an interesting dilemma and I believe worthy of discussion and consideration when making an expensive decision such as this.
I'm not sure many people are really making that "decision". There is little, if any, overlap between a Roamio and an XB1. There could be, someday, if MS decides to add DVR functionality. But that's a big if.
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Old 09-11-2013, 07:40 PM   #53
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I beg to differ with IPTV, cloud dvr and the external tuner possibilities. To not add that into your decision making process when evaluating the cost over the next couple years like we do when compared to renting a cable box or paying TiVo monthly. If in that timeframe the XBone surpasses TiVo, then it's VERY valid. To not look at this and other technologies emerging (Apple, Intel, etc.) coming fast and furious would be shortsighted when there's such a large cash outlay for tivo hardware and service, that your banking will pay off for you in the "amortized" future.

Time to take off the TiVo colored glasses and see the entire spectrum that is out there! Like I said, I love me some TiVo and I've had one since the first Philips 14hr unit, but I have to consider ALL possibilities.
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Old 09-11-2013, 07:46 PM   #54
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TiVos with lifetime tend to retain the vast majority of their value for about 2 years. So why not buy a TiVo now and then if something better comes along sell it. The loss will be almost certainly be less then throwing away money renting a cable company DVR.
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Old 09-12-2013, 01:18 AM   #55
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MS is trying to get out of the "recording TV game." Evidence of this is found in Windows 8 not even including WMC anymore unless you fork over more money for the license. WMC in Win8 was also barely changed/improved -- they basically rolled in all of the patches from Win7, but AFAIK there weren't any massive changes to it.

Just wait until you see what happens with weekly emergency broadcast system tests on a 360 acting as a WMC extender... you'll change your tune quickly. (It is an incredibly annoying bug that MS has known about for a while and hasn't touched.)

Also, the XBone doesn't include WMC Extender functionality at all.
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Old 09-12-2013, 03:17 AM   #56
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WMC in Win8 was also barely changed/improved -- they basically rolled in all of the patches from Win7, but AFAIK there weren't any massive changes to it.
MS has discontinued development of Media Center. Unless they change their mind Windows 8 will be the last version to even have it as an option. They pulled it completely from Windows embedded which is why that Ceton standalone DVR was pulled from production last minute and all pre-orders canceled.
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Old 09-12-2013, 10:30 AM   #57
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Time to take off the TiVo colored glasses and see the entire spectrum that is out there! Like I said, I love me some TiVo and I've had one since the first Philips 14hr unit, but I have to consider ALL possibilities.
The only rose colored glasses here are being worn by you while dreaming about vaporware on the Xbone. I don't think I've seen anyone agree with your 'possibilities'.
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Old 09-12-2013, 02:40 PM   #58
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If anything, I can see Apple or Msft acquiring TiVo if they decide to really go after this segment.

I hear rumors that Apple with be launching a new Apple TV in October. We will have to wait on that one.

I do love the features where you can voice control and hand motion control the Xbone. That is just awesome. The current Kinect is ok as long as you are close and alone in the room, but the new Kinect seems to be vastly improved.

Time will tell, but I feel that all new DVR functionality will move to the cloud 3-5 yrs from now.
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Old 09-13-2013, 12:58 AM   #59
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The only rose colored glasses here are being worn by you while dreaming about vaporware on the Xbone. I don't think I've seen anyone agree with your 'possibilities'.
It's not vaporware at all because at worst from day one I'll be able to hook my HDMI tuner (tivo, cable dvr, xbox 360 MCE, directv etc) through it and take advantage of its tv integration functionality and WAY more apps than Roamio, as well as Blu ray and gaming and a host of other functions. Plus at least it has the "possibility" of being more (IPTV, cloud dvr, etc), which is also most likely more than you can say about TiVo.

Look, I'm not trying to bash TiVo. I said it many times, I LOVE it......for what it is. It's just a LOT of $$$ initial investment so I'm trying to think ahead and also weigh my options and the easiest path to get there later on.

Have you ever setup WMC whole home with decent extenders and multiple tuners with cablecards? Its essentially tivo without the high priced "service charges" that i personally am starting to feel would be better spent towards things like bigger storage, upgrading components, etc. If so and it worked well with a good setup, I think you and others would see my point a lot more clearly.

Damn, I feel like a Windows guy in a Mac Forum, sheesh!
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Old 09-13-2013, 02:26 AM   #60
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Just wait until you see what happens with weekly emergency broadcast system tests on a 360 acting as a WMC extender... you'll change your tune quickly. (It is an incredibly annoying bug that MS has known about for a while and hasn't touched.)[/url].

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The emergency broadcast system doesn't work right on the Roamio. Instead of the emergency screen with text, it just shows a blank blue screen with the TiVo logo in the top left right corner and the audio portion of the announcement.

It works fine on the Series 3 & 4 models.
I guess it doesn't work on Roamio either, so that point's moot. :-/

Oh and I know it's not going to be an extender. That's not my intention for it anyway. Guess it pays to read what's written here.
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