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Old 08-26-2013, 08:30 AM   #1
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The Newsroom S02E07 : Red Team III

Interesting episode; at least it confirmed some of the speculation we had, such as it's a wrongful termination suit for Jerry Dantana.

The incorrect Heli manifest story was far fetched, but still entertaining.

What I don't understand, though, is that (I thought) Charlie said in the previous episode he knew at 10:05 it was all fake; it seems like it took a lot longer.

Some great interactions, especially with Don and the lawyer.

Leona Lansing's reaction was great, although given previous season, I would have thought she'd treasure the opportunity to get rid of Will and Charlie.

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Old 08-26-2013, 08:58 AM   #2
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I loved Don's "how is any of this not insane" rant. I get why it was important, dramatically, for the lawyer to win that argument with Don, but left a perfect comeback to her "institutional failure / scapegoat" argument sitting unused on the table: of all the people for whom it is arguable that they were involved in the institutional failure, the only person fired was the only person who actually acted in bad faith.


And bravo for Leona. If there were more defendants like her, there would be far fewer scumbag plaintiffs.
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Old 08-26-2013, 09:21 AM   #3
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And bravo for Leona. If there were more defendants like her, there would be far fewer scumbag plaintiffs.

Leona, in her drunken/drugged rant, got it right. I don't see an institutional failure at all. Of the four pieces of evidence, one was faked by the guy who they fired, one was faked by a "reliable" source (who they should expose, BTW), one was uncheckable (if they could not check the sources medical records) and the last was clean in its own way.

The fact that they sat on the story for a year verifying it over and over again actually says they had checks and balances in place and took their time. They followed a pretty rigorous procedure.

Legally, I can't see where they lose. Yes, they lost some faith with the public but a self-expose on how it went wrong would help. They can show how the news can get muddled.

It is their own lack of faith that may hurt. They stood down on Benghazi because they didn't trust themselves.
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Old 08-26-2013, 09:34 AM   #4
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Interesting that Sorkin timed the Genoa story such that it could be said to be one of the causes of Benghazi.
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Old 08-26-2013, 09:35 AM   #5
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I don't think Charlie said he knew it was fake at 10:05 did he? I thought it was more along the lines of, the story started to fall apart at 10:05... which it did since the General had made his irate phone call by then.

I thought this was the best episode of the season by far. Minimal romantic stupidities and insight into how getting burned might affect their ability to do their job.
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Old 08-26-2013, 09:59 AM   #6
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I agree with the insanity of the big fight in the wrongful termination suit. He wasn't fired because of the embarrassing story, he was fired for altering the raw footage and lying to his employer about it.

If he hadn't edited the footage and they still aired the story, then he could claim to be duped like everyone else. Firing him then since he spearheaded the story would have been using him as a scapegoat and maybe then he'd have a case. The editing of the raw footage is a completely different situation.

Perhaps he's claiming that everyone else was falsifying their reports and the network has to "prove" they didn't? He probably can't get away with claiming that he didn't do the stealth edit, so he's stuck claiming that he wasn't the only one.
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Old 08-26-2013, 11:07 AM   #7
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Nah. He knew from the elevator he was done. He lawyered up. And that is what they do. Find anything they can claim.

The only breakdown from a system I can see is that they let him cowboy the thing. No one else with the general during the interview. Self edit. They can change that but they focus for the law suit on them relying on him doing his job and he didn't only mess up, he was deliberate in his fakery.
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Old 08-26-2013, 11:16 AM   #8
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I really don't think Mac has the authority to Fire Jerry...especially in an elevator. He works in a different bureau and she didn't even know him prior to him coming up to fill in.

It would have happened with HR and lawyers in the room.
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Old 08-26-2013, 11:27 AM   #9
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One motivation I don't understand. General Stomtonovich. Why did he give the interview?

He was acknowledged in an earlier episode as a pro-chemical warfare general, who didn't want us to get rid of our arsenal. So why did he even allow an interview? And why did he keep saying "if we used Sarin"? And why did he agree to appear on camera? Even masked in darkness and voice-altered, he was introduced as a three star general. How hard could it be for someone to figure out who he was?

His motivation escapes me.

I thought it was a good episode, full frontal Sorkin. The scenes with MGH/lawyer and the cast were just spectacular. The only weak part was the Jane Fonda ending. It's like "ok, here's our get out of jail" scene, and everyone is forgiven. Kind of a cheap finish to a great episode.
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Old 08-26-2013, 11:41 AM   #10
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I thought this was the best episode of the season by far. Minimal romantic stupidities and insight into how getting burned might affect their ability to do their job.
Yes, this was absolutely the best episode of the season and possibly the whole series. The hour just flew by and I really enjoyed it. And yes, having "minimal romantic stupidities" really helped make the episode all the more enjoyable.


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I agree with the insanity of the big fight in the wrongful termination suit. He wasn't fired because of the embarrassing story, he was fired for altering the raw footage and lying to his employer about it.
Of course the fired guy's lawyer is going to do everything possible to get a settlement for his client, but the guy ACTUALLY edited the raw footage. There is no way that he would not be instantly fired for that. But I also agree with another post that Mac probably didn't have the authority to instantly fire him and that it would have had to taken place with Human Resources and possible network lawyers in attendance.

But again, a very good episode!

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Old 08-26-2013, 11:58 AM   #11
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I was thinking, "Man! Jane Fonda can still chew the scenery when she wants to!". That was such an excellent performance!
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Old 08-26-2013, 12:05 PM   #12
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If the shot clock was visible in the raw footage, and they'd all watched it "a hundred times," how did nobody notice it before that? I thought it would at least be something a little more subtle like them getting a copy of the actual game footage and playing it side by side and seeing that there was a piece missing. For the shot clock to have obvious time missing and then nobody to have seen it before then kind of does speak to an institutional failure.
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Old 08-26-2013, 12:05 PM   #13
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I really don't think Mac has the authority to Fire Jerry...especially in an elevator. He works in a different bureau and she didn't even know him prior to him coming up to fill in.

It would have happened with HR and lawyers in the room.
I think what she said was "It's pretty obvious that you're fired." I didn't take that as her firing him, but just stating the obvious that there was no way he survives this with a job at ACN.
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Old 08-26-2013, 12:16 PM   #14
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If the shot clock was visible in the raw footage, and they'd all watched it "a hundred times," how did nobody notice it before that? I thought it would at least be something a little more subtle like them getting a copy of the actual game footage and playing it side by side and seeing that there was a piece missing. For the shot clock to have obvious time missing and then nobody to have seen it before then kind of does speak to an institutional failure.
That was a Sorkin bit of cheat. The shot clock wasn't visible, really.

Some guys isolated the game from the video. There's a jump in the action as the ref walks down the court, but no shot clock.
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Old 08-26-2013, 12:23 PM   #15
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That was a Sorkin bit of cheat. The shot clock wasn't visible, really.

Some guys isolated the game from the video. There's a jump in the action as the ref walks down the court, but no shot clock.
Here's the post from last week's thread with the game footage isolated. You can clearly see the shot clock jump from 19 to 3. Not sure how none of us noticed that before.
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Old 08-26-2013, 12:25 PM   #16
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I think what she said was "It's pretty obvious that you're fired." I didn't take that as her firing him, but just stating the obvious that there was no way he survives this with a job at ACN.
Nope. She says "you're fired" and he says he expected that.
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Old 08-26-2013, 12:35 PM   #17
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Nope. She says "you're fired" and he says he expected that.
Yes, it would certainly have been much more accurate for her to say "while I personally may not have the authority to terminate your employment with ACN, your actions provide justification for me to make the appropriate requests of the appropriate managers and senior executives to initiate the process whereby such termination will be accomplished".

I believe, however, "you're fired" is a perfectly valid shorthand for that.
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Old 08-26-2013, 12:38 PM   #18
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The kid who writes Will's blog probably doesn't have the authority to fire an intern either, but obviously he was able to make it happen.
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Old 08-26-2013, 01:07 PM   #19
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it took seven episodes to get here, but we finally made it. we know jerry initiated the lawsuit, and the blow by blow details of the catastrophic failure. the story plant and suicide tangent was a bit contrived and convenient to the story line, but it tied up loose ends nicely. the opportunity to confirm your own anonymously planted story seemed vaguely familiar. the holding of the manifest over a candle to reveal secret writing was amateurish.

jane fonda is perfect casting in her character, and her scenes and dialog are spectacular. almost as if she's drawing from firsthand knowledge of the complexities involved with the management of a large cable news division.

the banter between don and becca's team was enjoyable from the start, and watching the fear in their eyes from the dod response as the story collapsed made the bengazi holdoff believable. have i said how much i love olivia munn today?
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Old 08-26-2013, 01:19 PM   #20
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have i said how much i love olivia munn today?
I you haven't, I will.
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Old 08-26-2013, 01:28 PM   #21
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So going back to Charlie's source: did he just happen to hear that ACN was chasing the Genoa story so he gave Charlie a fake helo manifest to help them confirm the story? Or was he the mastermind behind the whole thing, and he convinced Sweeney and Stomtonovich to also talk to ACN, knowing that Sweeney would be discredited and that the General would be smart enough to confirm it off camera but then choose his words very carefully on camera?
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Old 08-26-2013, 01:31 PM   #22
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So going back to Charlie's source: did he just happen to hear that ACN was chasing the Genoa story so he gave Charlie a fake helo manifest to help them confirm the story? Or was he the mastermind behind the whole thing, and he convinced Sweeney and Stomtonovich to also talk to ACN, knowing that Sweeney would be discredited and that the General would be smart enough to confirm it off camera but then choose his words very carefully on camera?
I think this is one of the weak links in the whole charade. It would be too easy to expose this, and bring down at least one career, and possibly criminal indictments to follow.

But hey, it's a Sorkin show. I watch for the banter. And Olivia Munn.
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Old 08-26-2013, 01:36 PM   #23
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So going back to Charlie's source: did he just happen to hear that ACN was chasing the Genoa story so he gave Charlie a fake helo manifest to help them confirm the story? Or was he the mastermind behind the whole thing, and he convinced Sweeney and Stomtonovich to also talk to ACN, knowing that Sweeney would be discredited and that the General would be smart enough to confirm it off camera but then choose his words very carefully on camera?
The General did not confirm the use of Sarin gas even off camera. He implied it by noting that they were going to ask about sarin and then later said Genoa happened. And by nebulously speaking about his support of the use of stuff like sarin if the situation called for it. Genoa did happen so it's unclear to me whether it matters whether Maggie heard him say it happened.
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Old 08-26-2013, 01:37 PM   #24
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So going back to Charlie's source: did he just happen to hear that ACN was chasing the Genoa story so he gave Charlie a fake helo manifest to help them confirm the story? Or was he the mastermind behind the whole thing, and he convinced Sweeney and Stomtonovich to also talk to ACN, knowing that Sweeney would be discredited and that the General would be smart enough to confirm it off camera but then choose his words very carefully on camera?
we know from becca that he anonymously leaked the story to will, then after jerry and team started background calls to the dod, he anonymously leaked the confirmation by way of the manifest to charlie, confident charlie and will wouldn't reveal their sorces.

my take on stomtonovich was he was found legitimately by neal, but researched jerry, and by orchestrating maggie's exit from the room, set jerry up to perform as he expected. sweeny was reacting to leading questions from mac, set up by the general.
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Old 08-26-2013, 01:46 PM   #25
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we know from becca that he anonymously leaked the story to will, then after jerry and team started background calls to the dod, he anonymously leaked the confirmation by way of the manifest to charlie, confident charlie and will wouldn't reveal their sorces.

my take on stomtonovich was he was found legitimately by neal, but researched jerry, and by orchestrating maggie's exit from the room, set jerry up to perform as he expected. sweeny was reacting to leading questions from mac, set up by the general.
No, Sweeney was interviewed first, before they had any info from the General or the fake manifest. It was Valenzuela that provided nothing new but instead simply corroborated everything Sweeney said through the leading questions from Mac.

So the question remains: Why did Sweeney come forward and tell the story he did? Did he really believe Sarin was used? Was he being used as a pawn by Charlie's source?

And what about the tweets from the Pakistani? We know he stopped tweeting because he couldn't pay for his cell phone plan. But what about the actual tweets he made? Why did he say people were burning and dying? And what are the chances his pre-paid plan then ended right in that moment before he could follow up on his tweet about people burning?
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Old 08-26-2013, 01:56 PM   #26
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No, Sweeney was interviewed first...
your right, my bad, i confused sweeny with valenzuela. wasn't sweeny sourced from jerry's panel guest cyrus west?

update: i found this from the recap on the hollywood reporter:
Quote:
Gunnery Sgt. Eric Sweeney...was part of the Genoa extraction team
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/liv...s-apart-614147

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Old 08-26-2013, 03:14 PM   #27
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So going back to Charlie's source: did he just happen to hear that ACN was chasing the Genoa story so he gave Charlie a fake helo manifest to help them confirm the story? Or was he the mastermind behind the whole thing, and he convinced Sweeney and Stomtonovich to also talk to ACN, knowing that Sweeney would be discredited and that the General would be smart enough to confirm it off camera but then choose his words very carefully on camera?
He wasn't the mastermind of the whole thing. He had a grudge against Charlie from a while back and he bided his time, waiting for an opportunity.

Then he heard about ACN making inquiries about MARSOC ops and figured out what was going on and decided that this was his chance to strike at Charlie.
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Old 08-26-2013, 03:15 PM   #28
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These days I'm watching just for Don and Sloan. Love them. The rest? Meh.
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Old 08-26-2013, 03:26 PM   #29
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He wasn't the mastermind of the whole thing. He had a grudge against Charlie from a while back and he bided his time, waiting for an opportunity.

Then he heard about ACN making inquiries about MARSOC ops and figured out what was going on and decided that this was his chance to strike at Charlie.
So I guess that's my question. Was the Genoa story just a spectacular confluence of conincidences that all came together at the right time to cause the gigantic screw up? Cyrus West planted the story and hooked Jerry up with Sweeney. What were their angles for telling this story? The General confirmed that Genoa happened before the cameras started rolling, and it seemed pretty clear he knew what he was saying when he did that. It was only then that they got the fake helo manifest. So if Charlie's source had nothing more to do with the story than providing one of the many pieces of evidence, that seems rather far fetched that he would expect that piece of evidence to lead to ACN reporting a false story.
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Old 08-26-2013, 03:49 PM   #30
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Leona Lansing's reaction was great, although given previous season, I would have thought she'd treasure the opportunity to get rid of Will and Charlie.
I take her at her word that SHE wants to get rid of Will and Charlie, not be forced to accept their resignations under bogus circumstances.
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