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View Poll Results: What will Tivo's next line of DVRs be like
updated 4-tuner cable only model 10 7.46%
6-tuner digital cable only model 61 45.52%
6-tuner hybrid DVR (cable & OTA support) 33 24.63%
4-tuner DVR (cable & OTA support) 27 20.15%
7 (or more) tuners of some kind 3 2.24%
Voters: 134. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-24-2013, 01:13 PM   #1
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Question Poll for TiVo's next line of DVRs

Just wondering what you think TiVo's next line of DVRs will be like
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:21 PM   #2
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I picked the dual 4 tuner OTA/Cable option but I also think there will be a new 6 tuner cable only model.
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:32 PM   #3
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First and foremost they will use a better chip, so the UI and all apps should be a lot faster. You can already see this in action if you use a Mini, which has a better chip then the current Premiere units. The new units will likely use the companion chip to the one in the Mini, which is actually even faster then what's in the Mini.

It's likely that the base model will have a minimum of 4 tuners and that we'll see a 6 tuner option as well.

We might see built in TiVo Stream capabilities. The chip TiVo is likely to use has the ability to trascode two streams to H.264 on the fly. Since the box will be digital only (i.e. no analog to transcode) they should be able to leverage the transcoding capabilities to offer TiVo Stream capabilities internally.

All future TiVos will have MoCa built in.

They are also working on a new remote. The main feature seems to be a locator option that will allow you to press a button on the TiVo itself that will cause the remote to beep so you can find it. They might also convert to BT to eliminate line of sight issues.

Beyond that I don't expect it to be much different. It will likely use the same software as the current Premiere units. Although the faster chip could entice 3rd party developers to offer their services on the new TiVo. Services like Amazon Prime, VUDU and HBOGo all have AdobeAir apps that run on Samsung smart TVs. However the current TiVo platform does not meet the minimum system requirements for AdobeAir so these services could be holding back because they believe the current platform causes a poor user experience. The new platform would eliminate that and could attract more developers/services. Although these services could also be holding back because of business issues we're unaware of, so no telling for sure.
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:36 PM   #4
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I replied before there was a poll.

Just FYI 7 or more tuners is not currently possible. The CableCARD spec currently only allows for 6 tuners max. There is a Cisco CableCARD out there that can do 8 channels, but they're not actually being used anywhere in the field.

Also we know from their FCC filing that they are planning a 4 tuner OTA/Cable unit. We also have it on pretty good inside info that there is a 6 tuner cable only unit coming as well. A 6 tuner OTA/cable unit is unlikely.
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:53 PM   #5
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I picked the 6-tuner digital cable only model option but I also think there will be a new 4 tuner OTA/Cable model.
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:09 PM   #6
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Just a repeat of what others have said.

6 tuner cable only and a 4 tuner OTA/Cable though unclear how many tuners OTA will offer. I don't see TiVo deviating from the matched number of tuners otherwise we might see a 4/2 Cable/OTA with a total of 4 at anytime.

I think pricing will remain around the same as the launch prices.

6 tuner XL model which hopefully has 3TB for $499.
6 tuner 2TB model for $399.
4 tuner with OTA XL model for $399.
4 Tuner with OTA model for $299.

I could see them making a shift again to the 1TB drive from 500gb for the base if there is demand from the cable partners for larger than 500GB especially with stuff like the Verizon server coming out with 1TB.

One thing that could drive the prices lower though is if they choose to drop the 2 tuner model so all models support the Mini. I can't see them wanting their cheapest model to cost $299. I suppose they could offer a new 2 tuner if the cable companies still want one which would return at the $149 price with 500gb unless they shift up to the 1TB drive. I don't see an XL model for the 2 tuner.

One other scenario is they offer the Premiere 4 without OTA for $199. This would probably make more sense since they don't need OTA for the cable company models so they would already be manufacturing this model.
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:10 PM   #7
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Exclamation

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Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
I replied before there was a poll.

Just FYI 7 or more tuners is not currently possible. The CableCARD spec currently only allows for 6 tuners max. There is a Cisco CableCARD out there that can do 8 channels, but they're not actually being used anywhere in the field.
Yea, I am sort of aware of this, but was thinking that by the time a new line hits the market (probably at least the fall....if not later), there might then be some new developments on the cable card industry that could be adopted into a new TiVo. Just a thought.


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Also we know from their FCC filing that they are planning a 4 tuner OTA/Cable unit. We also have it on pretty good inside info that there is a 6 tuner cable only unit coming as well. A 6 tuner OTA/cable unit is unlikely.
I'd LOVE to see some sort of OTA support, but I'm still skeptical on that no matter what kind of "filing" they have done.
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:23 PM   #8
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Just wondering what you think TiVo's next line of DVRs will be like
My guess is whatever Dish and DirecTV have had for the last 2 years.
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:42 PM   #9
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I'd LOVE to see some sort of OTA support, but I'm still skeptical on that no matter what kind of "filing" they have done.
If you read the filing you wouldn't be so skeptical. They specifically state that at least one of these new devices will have OTA support. There was no mention of the number of tuners but they also had a survey recently which asked users about whether they would be interested in a 4 tuner unit with OTA. That coupled with the fact that the Mini specifically states that it only works with units with 4 or more tuners seems to indicate that the next generation TiVo will include a 4 tuner box with OTA support.

Now I guess it's possible they could scrap the OTA support if they don't like the cost/benefit analysis, but all current indications point to them releasing a new box with OTA support.
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Old 04-24-2013, 04:17 PM   #10
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While probably HIGHLY unlikely, I would love to see the next TiVo have both a 6 tuner digital cable mode AND a dual tuner OTA option all in one box. Hence the reason I voted for 7 (or more). I know, a fat chance of this, but one can simply dream can't they :-)
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Old 04-24-2013, 05:35 PM   #11
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If you read the filing you wouldn't be so skeptical. They specifically state that at least one of these new devices will have OTA support. There was no mention of the number of tuners but they also had a survey recently which asked users about whether they would be interested in a 4 tuner unit with OTA. That coupled with the fact that the Mini specifically states that it only works with units with 4 or more tuners seems to indicate that the next generation TiVo will include a 4 tuner box with OTA support.

Now I guess it's possible they could scrap the OTA support if they don't like the cost/benefit analysis, but all current indications point to them releasing a new box with OTA support.
Yup. Probably a 4-tuner box with 2 2-tuner chips in it. It's a much smaller market, but one that no one else serves, so it would be stupid to abandon.
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Old 04-25-2013, 08:56 AM   #12
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Cool

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While probably HIGHLY unlikely, I would love to see the next TiVo have both a 6 tuner digital cable mode AND a dual tuner OTA option all in one box. Hence the reason I voted for 7 (or more). I know, a fat chance of this, but one can simply dream can't they :-)
When I originally made the poll, I wasn't really thinking this angle (& more a straight 7+ digital tuner), but I guess this could be another way to look at it. Probably still very unlikely to have a 6-tuner digital cable AND 2-tuner OTA in one box, but I would agree that this would be a nice one if they did come out with it. I personally would buy a box like this for not only the OTA option, but also to have more cable tuners available for one or more TiVO minis in a system.

I am also REALLY hoping that by the time they come out with their next line of boxes, they have worked out the dynamic tuning option of the TiVo mini. The total hijack of a tuner from a Premiere is really the thing that is preventing me personally from getting one.
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Old 04-25-2013, 11:05 AM   #13
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When I originally made the poll, I wasn't really thinking this angle (& more a straight 7+ digital tuner), but I guess this could be another way to look at it. Probably still very unlikely to have a 6-tuner digital cable AND 2-tuner OTA in one box, but I would agree that this would be a nice one if they did come out with it. I personally would buy a box like this for not only the OTA option, but also to have more cable tuners available for one or more TiVO minis in a system.

I am also REALLY hoping that by the time they come out with their next line of boxes, they have worked out the dynamic tuning option of the TiVo mini. The total hijack of a tuner from a Premiere is really the thing that is preventing me personally from getting one.
If you put a Mini on a TV that you do not need to watch live TV much you do not have to give up a tuner, you can still watch live TV by starting a recording of the channel you want to watch live.
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:09 PM   #14
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No idea. What I want though...

- faster
- built in stream feature
- Bluetooth remote the works
- big hard drives
- built in MOCA
- at least 4 tuners
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:25 PM   #15
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A hybrid model would be nice

I recently went OTA, but if that doesn't work out I may subscribe to cable again in the future. I would like a 4-tuner model Tivo that supports both OTA and cable that will allow me the flexibility to change my mind in the future.

Also looking forward to a model that loads Netflix faster than the 30+ seconds it seems to take now.
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:30 PM   #16
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Let us all remember that the Mini was a Unicorn, and the next DVR box is Bigfoot.

With that being said, if they say the box is coming at the the end of the 4th quarter 2013, I would realistically expect it absolutely no sooner than 2nd quarter 2014, after a minimum of 2 pushbacks.

So let's all stop hoping and specualting about the next box, and just face the fact that what we all use now is going to be exactly what will be using for the next year. Just enjoy your Minis and Streams and quad-tuner boxes and dual-tuner boxes.

Get over it, and get used to it.

All of us were hopped up and hopeful with the Mini for a veeeeeery long time.

All we know for sure is that TiVo filed a "waiver" a few weeks ago. Let's all be realistic, and remember who we are talking about here. It's going to be a while. We have gotten no clues or rumors from them for sure. So let's all hold off on getting everyone excited and having even more threads than we already do about the "next-gen" box.

/end rant

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Old 04-25-2013, 01:32 PM   #17
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I picked the dual 4 tuner OTA/Cable option but I also think there will be a new 6 tuner cable only model.
This...
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Old 04-25-2013, 01:46 PM   #18
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You people here, drinking in all your cable companies Kool-Aid at whatever price they want to charge for channels no one watches, crack me up. The OTA vote as you can see is split. Put the numbers together. Clearly, OTA is no small market and may even pass the all digital cable box preference.
Only TiVo knows what percentage of their users are cable vs OTA, but nationally almost 80% of the population subscribes to pay TV service of some kind. And the vast majority of the other 20% are poor families that simply can not afford pay TV and likely wouldn't be able to afford TiVo either. So the potential market for an OTA only TiVo would be very small compared to the potential cable market.

The only way the next gen TiVo is going to have OTA is if they can create a box that can do both cable and OTA symetrically. I believe there is enough of a market for them to include the hardware necessary to do both cable and OTA in a 4 tuner box, but it's likely we'll also see a 6 tuner box that is cable only like the current 4 tuner units, because the market for cable is so much bigger.
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Old 04-25-2013, 02:15 PM   #19
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Get over it, and get used to it.
Good advice, maybe you should take it yourself...
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Old 04-25-2013, 02:53 PM   #20
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Good advice, maybe you should take it yourself...
How is that?
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Old 04-25-2013, 02:56 PM   #21
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Let us all remember that the Mini was a Unicorn, and the next DVR box is Bigfoot.

With that being said, if they say the box is coming at the the end of the 4th quarter 2013, I would realistically expect it absolutely no sooner than 2nd quarter 2014, after a minimum of 2 pushbacks.

So let's all stop hoping and specualting about the next box, and just face the fact that what we all use now is going to be exactly what will be using for the next year. Just enjoy your Minis and Streams and quad-tuner boxes and dual-tuner boxes.

Get over it, and get used to it.

All of us were hopped up and hopeful with the Mini for a veeeeeery long time.

All we know for sure is that TiVo filed a "waiver" a few weeks ago. Let's all be realistic, and remember who we are talking about here. It's going to be a while. We have gotten no clues or rumors from them for sure. So let's all hold off on getting everyone excited and having even more threads than we already do about the "next-gen" box.

/end rant

::steps off of soapbox::
I know the Mini got pushed and that upset you, but historically TiVo doesn't have that bad a reputation for slipping. The Stream was released on time. The current Premiere was released without anyone even knowing it was coming. The TiVo HD too. The S3 unit was released on time as well. While they have slipped on a few software releases, and the Mini, it's hardly enough to judge it as a given.

Also we have in fact gotten clues and rumors "for sure". The FCC filing specifically mentions that they want to have these new units to market by the holiday season this year. We also got information from someone with an inside source, who was right about the Mini, that there would be a 6 tuner unit coming this fall before the FCC filing was public. So there are some pretty strong clues and rumors that a new unit will be coming this fall. Could it slip? Sure. Is it guaranteed to? No. If it's based on the same platform as the Pace 6 tuner box, which is highly likely, then that means it's been in development for over a year already so the hardware is likely ready to go. They just have to wait for the FCC to approve their request so they can start producing them for retail. The 4 tuner OTA box is still pretty much all conjecture at this point, but I still think it's likely given the hard stance TiVo has taken on the Mini requiring a box with at least 4 tuners.
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Old 04-25-2013, 03:02 PM   #22
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Eh, it wasn't so much that it upset me, as that I couldn't believe what took so long. It was laughable that they announced it and showed it at CES, and then took that much longer to go on sale.

When the Premiere launched it had an unreal amount of HDUI issues, I see the Mini has alot of various issues in the Mini forum, the Stream still can only work with Apple, so looking at their last 3 efforts on products, I can't help but NOT believe that anything will be on sale by the end of the year, and will be done in traditional "Tivo fashion". Late and incomplete. While we all rampantly discuss it here.

That's just my opinion.
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Old 04-25-2013, 04:11 PM   #23
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The Premiere was a completely new platform with a completely new UI which turned out to be way more ambitious then they expected. I agree it was a bit of a disaster, but I think they learned that it's better to release late then broken, which may be what happened with the Mini.

The Stream came out when expected with exactly the features that were expected. Android support was never promised or demonstrated and wasn't even announced until well after the Stream was released. Also, I've explained this in the Stream forum, but there were technical limitations to the Android platform that made it impossible to support Android at launch. So counting that as some sort of TiVo failure is not really fair.

I'm not sure what happened with the Mini. I have it on pretty good authority that it was actually ready for launch in the Fall of 2012. So either they had some sort of production delay or they found a last minute flaw that had to be addressed before it was released. I'm not sure if we'll ever know exactly what happened there. But given the debacle of the Premiere I think they were probably wise to hold it back until it was actually ready.

That being said I don't think the software on these new units will be any different then what we have now. It's not like they are building a new platform, this is just a hardware refresh akin to the TiVo HD vs the S3. They'll need to do some work on the back end to make it work with the new hardware, but the front end will run the same HDUI we're using now. So it's unlikely it will be "incomplete" because there is really nothing to complete. The only thing I could see possibly getting delayed is the built in Stream capabilities, and we don't even know for sure that those will exist. Other then that it's probably going to run the same exact software we're running on our Premiere units right now.
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Old 04-25-2013, 05:10 PM   #24
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All the screens are still not using the HDUI so the HDUI is still incomplete.
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Old 04-25-2013, 05:58 PM   #25
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All the screens are still not using the HDUI so the HDUI is still incomplete.
True, but most screens that people use all the time are now in HD, adjustment that are made very few times like the cable card menu don't have to be in HD, (Kids control may be the only exception, if that even included in the next model) the next TiVo IMHO will not have a SDUI available just like the Mini.
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Old 04-25-2013, 06:57 PM   #26
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You people here, drinking in all your cable companies Kool-Aid at whatever price they want to charge for channels no one watches, crack me up. The OTA vote as you can see is split. Put the numbers together. Clearly, OTA is no small market and may even pass the all digital cable box preference.
Probably 70+% of the content I watch isn't available on OTA. So OTA wouldn't do me much good. I'd be left basically with PBS. Oh, and no basketball either, since SNY owns the contracts for my team, and a few games go to ESPN. No news talk shows on MSNBC. No John Stewart and Steven Colbert. No HBO. It would suck.

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Only TiVo knows what percentage of their users are cable vs OTA, but nationally almost 80% of the population subscribes to pay TV service of some kind. And the vast majority of the other 20% are poor families that simply can not afford pay TV and likely wouldn't be able to afford TiVo either. So the potential market for an OTA only TiVo would be very small compared to the potential cable market.

The only way the next gen TiVo is going to have OTA is if they can create a box that can do both cable and OTA symetrically. I believe there is enough of a market for them to include the hardware necessary to do both cable and OTA in a 4 tuner box, but it's likely we'll also see a 6 tuner box that is cable only like the current 4 tuner units, because the market for cable is so much bigger.
Correct. OTA DVRs are a tiny market, at least at $500. If they were selling for $100, then it would be a different story.

That's actually a good prediction.

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True, but most screens that people use all the time are now in HD, adjustment that are made very few times like the cable card menu don't have to be in HD, (Kids control may be the only exception, if that even included in the next model) the next TiVo IMHO will not have a SDUI available just like the Mini.
There are a number of them. Can't think off the top of my head, but I get kicked back fairly often. No excuse for that.
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:21 PM   #27
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You people here, drinking in all your cable companies Kool-Aid at whatever price they want to charge for channels no one watches, crack me up. The OTA vote as you can see is split. Put the numbers together. Clearly, OTA is no small market and may even pass the all digital cable box preference.
(BTW, your allusion is incorrect.. It was Flavor Aid..)

Plus, *you* are the one who is in denial. The proportion of people using OTA only is VERY small. Most people ARE willing to pay for cable/satellite.

Would I have preferred my Premiere 4 support OTA? Yes, and I probably would have paid a bit more for it had it done so.. But I still bought it even though I realized I would be “stuck” with cable.
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Old 04-25-2013, 11:29 PM   #28
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There are a number of them. Can't think off the top of my head, but I get kicked back fairly often. No excuse for that.
People on this forum (like you and me) may go more often to SD screens but most users don't ever see the SD screen after the full setup of their Premiere.
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Old 04-26-2013, 01:45 AM   #29
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Something with high-def analog inputs would be killer - so I can feed the output of the HD cable box or U-verse or whatever into it and live with TiVo UI, control and scheduling of the video.

That's what I'd really want and what I have Windows Media Center currently doing. I prefer TiVo though.
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Old 04-26-2013, 07:06 AM   #30
slowbiscuit
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Join Date: Sep 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lessd View Post
People on this forum (like you and me) may go more often to SD screens but most users don't ever see the SD screen after the full setup of their Premiere.
Wishlists are still SD, and I'd bet those are used all the time. But maybe Tivo has metrics that say otherwise so they didn't bother with doing it last fall when they did most of what is used. I find it odd that SPs were done but not WLs however.

The real shame of the Premiere launch is the complete disconnect between the hardware and software sides of the house at Tivo, because they had to know the HDUI would be a dog on that platform. It's sad that we'll end up waiting almost 4 years to get a box that can decently run something that should have been taken for granted.

Last edited by slowbiscuit : 04-26-2013 at 07:11 AM.
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