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Old 08-26-2013, 02:25 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by john4200 View Post
Wrong question. Where is the "data and proof" that all of our money that the government has spent on the "war on drugs" has done more good than harm?
I'll note that you didn't answer my question.

Until someone convinces me legalizing drugs will actually do the fantastical things supporters purport, and not lead to a country full of addicts, I'll stick with the status quo.
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Old 08-26-2013, 02:42 AM   #62
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I'll note that you didn't answer my question.
That is because it is the wrong question. Why should the government spend our money and tell us (at gunpoint) what we can and can't put in our bodies without irrefutable evidence that our money is being well spent?
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Old 08-26-2013, 02:45 AM   #63
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Because this is a fictional TV show.
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Old 08-26-2013, 02:51 AM   #64
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I'll note that you didn't answer my question.

Until someone convinces me legalizing drugs will actually do the fantastical things supporters purport, and not lead to a country full of addicts, I'll stick with the status quo.
Because it's OK that the status quo costs billions of taxpayer dollars and tramples civil liberties?
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Old 08-26-2013, 02:57 AM   #65
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I agree with most of what you have said, although when Walt poisoned the kid with the flower, that was when I could no longer sympathize with him. Some people just hate anyone involved in creating, distributing, or selling drugs. I have no problem with such consensual transactions. But I have a big problem with deliberately dosing a child with poison.

What I have a hard time understanding is why people continue to think Jesse is a victim or an okay guy.
Jesse is guilty of many things but your last sentence is exactly why many of us see Jesse as the antithesis of WW. Jesse quit when they were willing to hang on to Todd - a child murderer. Jesse isn't comfortable with killing people unless there is a direct threat to his life -- not a loosely perceived threat.

WW will sacrifice anyone to achieve his goals -- let a drug addict die, poison kids, murder a competitive chemist, and buddy up with a guy who shot a kid down like a dog. I'm rooting to see WW removed from the earth ( or sent on "a trip to Belize" ).
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Old 08-26-2013, 03:32 AM   #66
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That is because it is the wrong question. Why should the government spend our money and tell us (at gunpoint) what we can and can't put in our bodies without irrefutable evidence that our money is being well spent?
Still didn't answer the question. And it's not a "wrong" question. It's no more "wrong" than yours. Prove to me that legalizing drugs would solve the problem.

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Because it's OK that the status quo costs billions of taxpayer dollars and tramples civil liberties?
Why would legalizing drugs be any different? Billions of dollars will still be spent trying to regulate the drugs, and there would STILL be illegal street drugs floating around. We'd have twice the problems.

Anyway, this isn't the thread to argue about this. I'm not going to continue with a pointless endeavor.
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Old 08-26-2013, 04:53 AM   #67
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I, too, am a little confused about the ricin. I came here to get answers and the summary that was posted helped but I still am not clear on why or how Jesse made the leap from the ricin being lifted from his pocket to Brock's poisoning since the kid wasn't poisoned with ricin (which is what got him off the hook with the police at the time).
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Old 08-26-2013, 05:32 AM   #68
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Didn't like this episode. The confession thing was simply a vehicle that we've seen coming from a mile away. Make Hank realize that his rehab was paid for with meth money therefore he can't go to the DEA with what he knows.

And the Jesse leap with the ricin? He's not that bright and certainly not in a state of mind to be putting together the pieces of that puzzle.
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Old 08-26-2013, 06:16 AM   #69
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I, too, am a little confused about the ricin. I came here to get answers and the summary that was posted helped but I still am not clear on why or how Jesse made the leap from the ricin being lifted from his pocket to Brock's poisoning since the kid wasn't poisoned with ricin (which is what got him off the hook with the police at the time).
After the kid got poisoned, Jessie met up with Walt and it was Walt who suggested that Jessie had the doctors check for the ricin since it would not easliy be seen in the tox screens. Jessie later pulls a gun on Walt - blaming Walt for making the kid sick and even said Huey took it off him during his visit to Saul. Walt deflects this and blames Gus saying Gus had it taken from Jessie's locker at work. After the kid recovers from a NON ricin poison - Jessie is so messed in the head he thinks he lost the ricin and now someone else may find it and die. Walt tries to help his state of mind by making the 'salty' ricin tube and eventually plants it in the roomba during his search with Jessie at Jessie's house. One of them takes it to be flushed.... Whew......
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Old 08-26-2013, 06:22 AM   #70
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After the kid got poisoned, Jessie met up with Walt and it was Walt who suggested that Jessie had the doctors check for the ricin since it would not easliy be seen in the tox screens. Jessie later pulls a gun on Walt - blaming Walt for making the kid sick and even said Huey took it off him during his visit to Saul. Walt deflects this and blames Gus saying Gus had it taken from Jessie's locker at work. After the kid recovers from a NON ricin poison - Jessie is so messed in the head he thinks he lost the ricin and now someone else may find it and die. Walt tries to help his state of mind by making the 'salty' ricin tube and eventually plants it in the roomba during his search with Jessie at Jessie's house. Whew......
Yeah I got all that but still doesn't tell me why Jessie thinks Walt had anything to do with the poisoning since the ricin wasn't used.
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Old 08-26-2013, 06:43 AM   #71
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Yeah I got all that but still doesn't tell me why Jessie thinks Walt had anything to do with the poisoning since the ricin wasn't used.
One more try..The ricin was initially intended for Gus; Gus had taken Jessie under his wing, even though he didn't like him. Walt was not sure where that relationship was going and knew he had to drive a wedge between Gus and Jessie. (Soon Gus would have no use for Walt.) The wedge was to make Gus seemed like he had hurt yet another kid, (Jessie loves kids) thus the ricin/poison story. After the kid recovers Jessie thinks it was Walt all along and pulls a gun on him (Walt is in hiding at this point.) Walt even says something along the lines of, I should have know it was going to be you, but manages to convince Jessie it was Gus. (I may have the timeline screwed up a little here.)

This most recent scene where Jessie realizes that he once again had something lifted made him realized that it was Walt all along who poisoned Brock. It was Walt and he even knew it then.
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Old 08-26-2013, 06:57 AM   #72
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Old 08-26-2013, 08:28 AM   #73
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Yeah I got all that but still doesn't tell me why Jessie thinks Walt had anything to do with the poisoning since the ricin wasn't used.
I was very confused about this also. The only thing I could think of was that he found the pack of cigarettes that he and Walt hid the one ricin cigarette in and something clicked in his head and he decided to go back and kill Walt for all the lies.

I actually thought that maybe Walt had planted the cigarette pack on Jesse when he gave him that hug in the desert.

As for the hug, it was nice on Walt's part but very staged and Jesse didn't really hug back. I almost got the feel of Christ/Judas vibe. Walt knowing that Jesse will have to try and betray him.
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Old 08-26-2013, 08:36 AM   #74
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As for the hug, it was nice on Walt's part but very staged and Jesse didn't really hug back. I almost got the feel of Christ/Judas vibe. Walt knowing that Jesse will have to try and betray him.
Yeah, I didn't even think it was nice. Walt's not so far gone that he'd just have Jesse whacked, but I don't think he's too far from being that far gone. The hug was all about manipulation, and not at all about personal feelings (let's face it, even at his best Walt isn't a hugging kind of guy to begin with).
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Old 08-26-2013, 08:39 AM   #75
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I have no doubt Walt would have killed Jesse had he not agreed to leave town.
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Old 08-26-2013, 08:46 AM   #76
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Marie was, understandably, cold-hearted when she told Walt to just kill himself. And that was even before she saw Walt's "confession" video.

Makes you wonder if the kleptomania she exhibited in the first few episodes was meant to lay a foundation of an "emotion trumps reason" brand of lawlessness in her.

Hmm, what's the over/under on Marie being the one to kill Walt?
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Old 08-26-2013, 08:48 AM   #77
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Because this is a fictional TV show.
Right. (silly argument)

You root for Walt because the **** he does is the reason you watch the show.

I don't think the hug was disingenuous - at least not completely. As someone said earlier - a lot of the bad stuff that Walt has done, was done to save or protect Jesse.

I also don't understand the Ricin thing. Jesse knows that it was not Ricin that poisoned Brock - so what is there to piece together....though, as we saw this week, they do a pretty good job of answering questions that stymie us from the week before.
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Old 08-26-2013, 08:50 AM   #78
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I actually thought that maybe Walt had planted the cigarette pack on Jesse when he gave him that hug in the desert.
It's just the brand Jesse smokes (i.e. not planted), but in combination with *just* having the pot lifted from him by Huel, and the extreme perseverating in the previous season about *where* the missing ricin cigarette went, he finally figured out that it was Saul/Huel who lifted it, and the only person who could have told them to do it was Walt.
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Old 08-26-2013, 08:55 AM   #79
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It's just the brand Jesse smokes (i.e. not planted), but in combination with *just* having the pot lifted from him by Huel, and the extreme perseverating in the previous season about *where* the missing ricin cigarette went, he finally figured out that it was Saul/Huel who lifted it, and the only person who could have told them to do it was Walt.
but they "found" the Ricin in the Roomba and Ricin did not poison Brock - so....???
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Old 08-26-2013, 08:59 AM   #80
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Until someone convinces me legalizing drugs will actually do the fantastical things supporters purport, and not lead to a country full of addicts, I'll stick with the status quo.
Not sure I believe the "fantastical" claims either.

But -- did the repeal of Prohibition lead to a country full of alcoholics?

(Did Prohibition actually reduce alcohol abuse?)
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Old 08-26-2013, 09:00 AM   #81
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but they "found" the Ricin in the Roomba and Ricin did not poison Brock - so....???
So Jesse realized that Walt manipulated the whole situation and was the one who poisoned Brock.
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Old 08-26-2013, 09:01 AM   #82
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but they "found" the Ricin in the Roomba and Ricin did not poison Brock - so....???
It's really convoluted (and explained above), but Walt used the missing ricin to help convince Jesse that it was Gus who poisoned the kid and not Walt.
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Old 08-26-2013, 09:10 AM   #83
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No it doesn't explain anything (well)...because if the Dr. said that it wasn't Ricin that poisoned Brock, then there is no reason for Jesse to connect the missing Ricin to anything...especially since he later "finds" it.

If we were hanging out and you had a one dollar bill...and the next day I bought a candy bar, then you noticed you were missing your dollar bill - you might suspect I took your dollar bill. Yes?

If you then spoke with the cashier who sold me the candy bar and they told you that I paid with a five dollar bill - and you later FOUND your one dollar bill under your bed...you would then have absolutely no reason to connect me to the missing one dollar bill.
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Old 08-26-2013, 09:12 AM   #84
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I agree, the whole "Jesse figures it all out" stuff was over the top. He went from Zombie to rational way too quick. But the rest of the episode was spot on. And I like how they went a long time without a break during the crucial mid episode scenes. (I watch on a delay so I can FF but still nice to not break it up)
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Old 08-26-2013, 09:25 AM   #85
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I agree, the whole "Jesse figures it all out" stuff was over the top. He went from Zombie to rational way too quick. But the rest of the episode was spot on. And I like how they went a long time without a break during the crucial mid episode scenes. (I watch on a delay so I can FF but still nice to not break it up)
It's still bugging me because of the way he searched for it. He was DESPERATE to find it. To actually FIND it. It's like he was EXPECTING to find it. Like he STILL had one on him all this time. We had seen him do this frantic search before. But now I was reminded that once Walt planted one in the Roomba, Jesse stopped carrying on him. And yet, he sure as acted like it still should have ben there.

I'm OK with him figuring it out. But now I am thinking just maybe there could have been a better way to do it. Maybe not such a frantic search for. Look for weed. Realize it's gone. <Sigh>. Grab the cigarettes. Open box. Then realize it then.
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Old 08-26-2013, 09:27 AM   #86
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No it doesn't explain anything (well)...because if the Dr. said that it wasn't Ricin that poisoned Brock, then there is no reason for Jesse to connect the missing Ricin to anything...especially since he later "finds" it.

If we were hanging out and you had a one dollar bill...and the next day I bought a candy bar, then you noticed you were missing your dollar bill - you might suspect I took your dollar bill. Yes?

If you then spoke with the cashier who sold me the candy bar and they told you that I paid with a five dollar bill - and you later FOUND your one dollar bill under your bed...you would then have absolutely no reason to connect me to the missing one dollar bill.
Unless you were a known thief. Then I might I still have suspicions.


I think that is the point here. Jesse has seen some pretty elaborate plans by Walt to make people think he didn't do something. I think in Jessie's mind, putting the pieces together that he stole the ricin cigarette was enough for him to think Walt was going to poison Brock with the ricin, realized Jessie would find out, poisoned him with something else and used it all as a cover up.
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Old 08-26-2013, 09:28 AM   #87
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No it doesn't explain anything (well)...because if the Dr. said that it wasn't Ricin that poisoned Brock, then there is no reason for Jesse to connect the missing Ricin to anything...
It's not about the Ricin, it's confirmation of one of Walt's lies . Jessie now has incontrovertible proof that Walt is able to lie convincingly about anything. Walt at first tried to blame Gus for the missing ricin, which Jesse now knows was a complete lie, confirmed by Saul. Walt told that lie while under the duress of Jesse's gun pointing straight between his eyes, so he's exceptionally good at it.

Now, Jesse is free to assume that everything else Walt has every told him is also a lie, so he's raging.
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Old 08-26-2013, 09:32 AM   #88
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^^^^ yes, that ^^^^^

And it also confirms (in Jesse's mind) that Walt lied about Mike.

Just imagine if Jesse finds out about Jane (not that he needs any more proof about Mr. White).
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Old 08-26-2013, 09:43 AM   #89
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It's not about the Ricin, it's confirmation of one of Walt's lies . Jessie now has incontrovertible proof that Walt is able to lie convincingly about anything. Walt at first tried to blame Gus for the missing ricin, which Jesse now knows was a complete lie, confirmed by Saul. Walt told that lie while under the duress of Jesse's gun pointing straight between his eyes, so he's exceptionally good at it.

Now, Jesse is free to assume that everything else Walt has every told him is also a lie, so he's raging.
This. He always suspected WW was behind his troubles and put it all together. That is how the mind works sometimes. It ties into his entire day including the manipulation in the desert.

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The hug was all about manipulation, and not at all about personal feelings (let's face it, even at his best Walt isn't a hugging kind of guy to begin with).
That hug reminded me of some Godfather scene. I fully expected WW to kill him during that hug but them realized it would not have been a smart move. WW is vile but not stupid.
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Old 08-26-2013, 09:53 AM   #90
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I'll note that you didn't answer my question.

Until someone convinces me legalizing drugs will actually do the fantastical things supporters purport, and not lead to a country full of addicts, I'll stick with the status quo.
Umm, the country is full of addicts now. Haven't you noticed? "Addicts" may be too strong. "Users" is probably better.
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