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Old 07-11-2014, 07:44 PM   #1
JasonFin
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Issues with live TV recording buffer since summer update

We have a TiVo Roamio Pro and have been having some issues since the update.

If we are watching a show on live TV on the active tuner, that is not currently being recorded, then if we go to the TiVo main screen, either by hitting the TiVo button or the “left” button, then the screen will go black for a moment, which seems to indicate that the TiVo is retuning to the current channel. At that time everything in the recording buffer on that tuner is immediately cleared. Going back to live TV clears the buffer again. This means we are likely to lose some of what we were watching.

If we are watching a show on live TV, and start recording it, then going to the TiVo main screen while that show is on the active tuner will immediately halt the recording, without any notice that this has happened. The buffer will also be cleared both when entering and leaving the screen, as above. This is extremely undesirable behavior.

These issues do not seem to occur if the buffer extends all the way back to the beginning of the show at the time we start recording; in that case everything is saved and the recording will continue as it should.

These are serious problems that have already caused us to lose several shows we were watching. Are other people experiencing this problem, and is it a known issue?
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Old 07-11-2014, 11:28 PM   #2
CoxInPHX
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If these issues are only happening on a SDV channel, then yes I have experienced this before and the Summer Update 20.4.2 seems to have brought the bug back.
Here is where I posted on this last December:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...01#post9914701

Here is what I am seeing:

Pressing the TiVo button results in a loss of the LiveTV Buffer on a SDV channel

Each time the TiVo button is pressed the program does not continue playing in the Video window, it flashes to Black and back to LiveTV, and the buffer is lost when pressing the LiveTV button or Zoom.

This issue only seems to happen on a SDV channel after the DVR has displayed the following message:
"This channel is temporarily unavailable.
Press SELECT to try tuning to this channel again."
Tuning away from the channel and back, using Ch Up / Ch Down, if the message is not displayed the issue does happen again.

It almost seems that possibly the Fix in 20.3.8 that "retry tuning requests after a Tuning Adapter fails to respond" may have been lost in this update.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=512353
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Last edited by CoxInPHX : 07-11-2014 at 11:36 PM.
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Old 07-11-2014, 11:54 PM   #3
nooneuknow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoxInPHX View Post
If these issues are only happening on a SDV channel, then yes I have experienced this before and the Summer Update 20.4.2 seems to have brought the bug back.
Here is where I posted on this last December:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...01#post9914701

Here is what I am seeing:

Pressing the TiVo button results in a loss of the LiveTV Buffer on a SDV channel

Each time the TiVo button is pressed the program does not continue playing in the Video window, it flashes to Black and back to LiveTV, and the buffer is lost when pressing the LiveTV button or Zoom.

This issue only seems to happen on a SDV channel after the DVR has displayed the following message:
"This channel is temporarily unavailable.
Press SELECT to try tuning to this channel again."
Tuning away from the channel and back, using Ch Up / Ch Down, if the message is not displayed the issue does happen again.

It almost seems that possibly the Fix in 20.3.8 that "retry tuning requests after a Tuning Adapter fails to respond" may have been lost in this update.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=512353
I'm seeing this on SDV as well. It sure puts as major dent in the usefulness of "What to Watch Now", along with what has already been mentioned.

The fix was either left out of this build, or TiVo innovated a new way to break it. I'm sure they are busy patenting the method in which they broke it, so they can also patent the fix for it.

I can not recall TiVo ever rolling an update that didn't break something.
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Cisco tuning adapters should never be used inline (using the TA coax OUT port) to connect a TiVo, if MoCA is in use. Use a splitter w/PoE filter on leg to TA, use other leg for the TiVo. Enjoy!

Last edited by nooneuknow : 07-12-2014 at 03:54 AM. Reason: correction
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Old 07-12-2014, 12:35 AM   #4
JasonFin
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Now that you mention it, I see that this glitch is only occurring for me on SDV channels. I did happen to get a "This channel is temporarily unavailable. Press SELECT to try tuning to this channel again." message a few days ago, but managed to resolve it by changing channels; the system has remained powered on since then. It didn't occur to me that this problem could be related.

I'll try resetting the TiVo and digital tuner box later (when not recording anything) and see if that fixes the problem.
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Old 07-12-2014, 03:06 AM   #5
CoxInPHX
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Jason,

Do you have a Cisco Tuning Adapter?
If Yes, What is the Tuning Adapter "FLASH: Version"

Supposedly FLASH: STA1.0.0_1520_LR_F.1901 fixes this issue, but my provider, Cox, has chosen not to deploy this update, so I cannot confirm or dispute that is the real issue.
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Last edited by CoxInPHX : 07-12-2014 at 03:20 AM.
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Old 07-12-2014, 08:11 AM   #6
CoxInPHX
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I am also having a No Audio issue on some SDV channels when I first tune to them, I must either Ch Up / Ch Down to retune the channel or wait ~30 seconds and skip-back, skip-forward to get the Audio to come in.

Are either of you seeing this issue?
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Old 07-12-2014, 08:44 AM   #7
nooneuknow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoxInPHX View Post
I am also having a No Audio issue on some SDV channels when I first tune to them, I must either Ch Up / Ch Down to retune the channel or wait ~30 seconds and skip-back, skip-forward to get the Audio to come in.

Are either of you seeing this issue?
Same here, just as you described it. This reeks of TiVo taking one step forward, and three steps back (don't they always?) with SDV. It's like as if all the fixes they implemented for SDV/TAs got left out of this build. Don't ask me how I know that things like that happen with releases. They do. But, in the past, TiVo would roll a quick-fix update, rather than having a seasonal schedule. Now they just make us wait for the whole update...

They build-in a new internal SDV system for MSO partner leased boxes only, and give the retail channel back SDV bugs that seemed to be history. Gee, thanks TiVo...
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Cisco tuning adapters should never be used inline (using the TA coax OUT port) to connect a TiVo, if MoCA is in use. Use a splitter w/PoE filter on leg to TA, use other leg for the TiVo. Enjoy!
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Old 07-12-2014, 01:45 PM   #8
JasonFin
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I do have a Cisco tuning adapter, also from Cox. Version seems to be "FLASH: STA1.0.0_1520_LR_F.1601" so that may be the problem.

In any case, resetting the TiVo and the tuning adapter has (at least temporarily) resolved the issue for me.
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Old 07-13-2014, 05:42 PM   #9
dcline414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoxInPHX View Post
I am also having a No Audio issue on some SDV channels when I first tune to them, I must either Ch Up / Ch Down to retune the channel or wait ~30 seconds and skip-back, skip-forward to get the Audio to come in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
Same here, just as you described it.
I just experienced the same symptom on our Premiere viewing an HD OTA channel.

We were in the guide, with live TV showing in the corner, and upon returning to full screen (by pressing guide) the video was fine but the audio dropped out. This has only happened once and I have not yet been able to replicate it.

But if mine was caused by the same issue, that would indicate this is a global issue with the new software, not a Roamio or cable hardware problem.
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Old 07-21-2014, 12:34 PM   #10
TiVoMargret
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If you are experiencing this issue, please email me the following info:

1. Your TSN
2. A date/time and description of when your buffer disappears. Please also type in 777-CLEAR and 911-CLEAR when you are in live TV at the buffer is gone.
3. A description of your setup: CableCARD? Tuning Adapter? WiFi, Ethernet, or MoCA?

Email to: margret@tivo.com
Subject: 20.4.2 Live Buffer Issues
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Old 07-21-2014, 12:36 PM   #11
TiVoMargret
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoxInPHX View Post
I am also having a No Audio issue on some SDV channels when I first tune to them, I must either Ch Up / Ch Down to retune the channel or wait ~30 seconds and skip-back, skip-forward to get the Audio to come in.
Please also send me similar details on this one.
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Old 07-21-2014, 01:10 PM   #12
tatergator1
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I've seen this in the past, but stopped looking for it over the last several months as it usually was just a minor annoyance. I can say that this does not appear to be an issue with the TA. In many instances when I was tracking this bug, several of my tuners would be on the same SDV channel. If I hit the Tivo button on the problem tuner, I would lose the buffer every time, until I changed the channel to something else, and then back again. I could switch over to the other tuners that were on the same channel, and never lose the buffer.

Another issue that is perhaps related is that in the same scenario where multiple tuners are on the same SDV channel, one tuner would display the "Press Select to..." message and require you to re-tune the channel. Yet, the SDV channel is immediately visible if you switch to one of the other tuners, complete with 30 minute buffer.

Last time I was tracking this, I would normally see this when first turning on the TV in the morning. This issue was present under 20.3.8 with Cisco TA and .1501 firmware, 1.5.3.0601 CableCard. I have since been upgraded to .1901 on the TA and 1.5.3.1101 CableCard. The "Press Select to" is still happening with the updated firmware's. I'll need to watch more closely with the Live buffer issue.

Could this be related to EAS broadcasts. There was discussion a few weeks ago regarding Mini's taking tuners in the middle of the night for no apparent reason. It was suggested that the tuner grab was a function of EAS tests and the Mini responding to those and grabbing a tuner.

I'll keep an eye out for the Live Buffer issues.
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Old 07-21-2014, 01:17 PM   #13
nooneuknow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiVoMargret View Post
If you are experiencing this issue, please email me the following info:

1. Your TSN
2. A date/time and description of when your buffer disappears. Please also type in 777-CLEAR and 911-CLEAR when you are in live TV at the buffer is gone.
3. A description of your setup: CableCARD? Tuning Adapter? WiFi, Ethernet, or MoCA?

Email to: margret@tivo.com
Subject: 20.4.2 Live Buffer Issues
Nice to see you are around and trying to keep up (seriously).

I thought TiVo, Inc might have told you to disengage, and stop making the Support/Call Center look as bad as they truly are.

To the point/question: Is it still required to perform two back-to-back manual service connections after using these log markers and diags, or is that now a thing of the past (perhaps something changed)?

Notes for everybody:

The clear button must be pressed fast enough to stop the channel from changing (especially if changing to channel 777 or 911 would upset you).

Both only work when in Live TV viewing mode (video window in menus does not count), and are best when used when not viewing back in the buffer (Live TV truly live).

Both put a Date/TimeStamp in the TiVo logs, and can be used multiple times to mark multiple instances.

777-clear adds additional diagnostic information to the logs.

If you are trying to just mark/isolate a single event, the 777-clear, followed by a 911-clear, then connecting to the TiVo service before using the sequences again, will be better than multiple uses before a connection.

EDIT/ADD: It is a good idea to keep your own notes on when & why you use these sequences to mark events, should a conversation come up and the CSR viewing the log is unsure what they are looking for, or looking at, specifically.

If anything here is wrong, or has changed, I'm sure I'll be corrected.
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Cisco tuning adapters should never be used inline (using the TA coax OUT port) to connect a TiVo, if MoCA is in use. Use a splitter w/PoE filter on leg to TA, use other leg for the TiVo. Enjoy!

Last edited by nooneuknow : 07-21-2014 at 01:24 PM.
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Old 07-23-2014, 03:24 AM   #14
DCIFRTHS
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I am having a similar problem in my two premiere's.

I have Verizon FiOS, so no SDV involved. I am posting the problem anyway in case they are connected in some way.

My problem:
I've had the Summer Update for 5 days now. After receiving it, I have twice experienced the following problem when tuned to a premium channel HBO, Showtime etc.): A blank screen after doing the steps below.

I don't know if the problem is due to a premium channel, but if you could try twice using a premium, and non-premium, that would be awesome.

1) Go to: TiVo Central
2) Select: My Shows
3) Select a show.
4) Press Play
5) Go to: TiVo Central
6) Select: My Shows
7) Press Live TV

Result: A blank screen.
Fix: Change the channel, and the blank channel is now tuned to a show.
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Old 08-10-2014, 09:05 PM   #15
nooneuknow
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"PKEY1.5.3_F.p.1301" cablecard firmware update - losing ALL channels on all Roamios

I'm now on my third instance of losing ALL channels (no picture or sound), without ANY error message, and the only cure is rebooting all the Roamios (They all go down at the same time). Nothing exactly like this ever happened before the "PKEY1.5.3_F.p.1301" cablecard firmware update!

I tried multiple ways of trying to resolve it.

Disconnect & Reconnect:
USB to TA
Power to TA
Coax to TA
Coax to TiVo

HDUI reboot
Full TiVo reboot from menu - ONLY way to resolve it.

So, it has to be internal to the TiVo, or the cablecard within it (or some interaction between the two), right?

I don't find it to be coincidence that something this extreme starts after the firmware update, especially since this was the same state they were in after the update completed, until I rebooted them...

Others were right! Things could be worse, like missed recordings, without an error code, or self-resolving, or any certainty of what exactly is going wrong/going on, and why. My comments about the pre/post update 3 second skips ahead are trivial, in comparison to this.
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Cisco tuning adapters should never be used inline (using the TA coax OUT port) to connect a TiVo, if MoCA is in use. Use a splitter w/PoE filter on leg to TA, use other leg for the TiVo. Enjoy!
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