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Old 07-30-2014, 03:10 PM   #1921
ThAbtO
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Old 07-30-2014, 09:36 PM   #1922
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Just to make sure nobody who wants an AV drive with PWL, 24x7 AV usage profile, and a three year warranty, orders this by accident: This is an EZRX drive, having none of these things.

For "I want the cheapest drive that will work, don't care about longevity, and am fine with a 2 year warranty" people, this is your 3TB EZRX drive.

If used in anything except a Roamio, a direct internal connection to a PC SATA port will be required to disable the idle-3 timer, using the wdidle3.exe tool.

All testing, before installation (which is highly recommended) can be done with a USB 3.0 drive dock/adapter, or by other interfaces.
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Old 08-06-2014, 05:27 AM   #1923
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I see Newegg has the 3TB WD red drives (WD30EFRX) on sale for the next couple of days for $115. I got an email saying it is a mstery deal for the next 48 hours. But it also looks like the price is only $125 before the $10 promo code is used.
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Old 08-06-2014, 06:07 AM   #1924
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Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
For "I want the cheapest drive that will work, don't care about longevity, and am fine with a 2 year warranty" people For the "I know it really doesn't matter what drive I get, it's always just a roll of the dice" people, this is your 3TB drive.
FTFY.
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Old 08-06-2014, 08:36 AM   #1925
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Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post
FTFY.
For the record, that was an edited (by slowbiscuit) quote. I don't quote people and bold-type, or otherwise edit, a segment, without saying "I've placed this part in bold". Unless done this way, it is a false quote, easily taken out of context. Even just selectively quoting a part of a longer post can completely change the context.

What I actually said was:
Quote:
For "I want the cheapest drive that will work, don't care about longevity, and am fine with a 2 year warranty" people, this is your 3TB EZRX drive.
The post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
Just to make sure nobody who wants an AV drive with PWL, 24x7 AV usage profile, and a three year warranty, orders this by accident: This is an EZRX drive, having none of these things.

For "I want the cheapest drive that will work, don't care about longevity, and am fine with a 2 year warranty" people, this is your 3TB EZRX drive.

If used in anything except a Roamio, a direct internal connection to a PC SATA port will be required to disable the idle-3 timer, using the wdidle3.exe tool.

All testing, before installation (which is highly recommended) can be done with a USB 3.0 drive dock/adapter, or by other interfaces.

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Old 08-06-2014, 08:47 AM   #1926
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I see Newegg has the 3TB WD red drives (WD30EFRX) on sale for the next couple of days for $115. I got an email saying it is a mstery deal for the next 48 hours. But it also looks like the price is only $125 before the $10 promo code is used.
I've been meaning to ask a question here...

Should I turn off the 7 second TLER (Time Limited Error Recovery) function these drives have, when using them in a TiVo?

The AV-GP drives don't have this function. I can't find anything that helps me weigh any VALID pros and cons, when used in a TiVo (or in a context that would definitively/definitely apply). Since I know that TiVo code is written for drives without this function, I wonder if it has a downside, if left enabled, or if there are potential issues I'm leaving myself open to, by leaving it as-is.
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Old 08-06-2014, 10:10 AM   #1927
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
I see Newegg has the 3TB WD red drives (WD30EFRX) on sale for the next couple of days for $115. I got an email saying it is a mstery deal for the next 48 hours. But it also looks like the price is only $125 before the $10 promo code is used.
Unless actually in need of a drive, right now, I'd pass on what seem like a great deal.

WD has refreshed their product line. The new Red NAS with NASware 3.0 is driving down prices on the NASware 2.0 inventory.

If I wasn't aware aware of this, I'd snatch up the maximum allowed. Even then, I'd be concerned about the reviews on nearly all of WDs drives, before the refresh. I'll wait it out, since I don't need any more drives (even though I want more).

This refresh cycle has changed much more than the label. The newer drives are built on better foundations, use newer technology, and one can even spot how the drive cases are different, just by looking at the screw placement.

It's not the usual refresh, where the drive remains the same, but the firmware has been changed (although firmware is part of this cycle). Older models can't be updated to the newer firmware. So, buyer beware...

Thanks for the heads-up, though. I'm sure some are in need of a drive, and this is getting a Red NAS for the lowest known price (from Newegg) of an AV-GP drive. Red NAS has more applications it will work well for, than AV-GP.
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Old 08-06-2014, 11:10 AM   #1928
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Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
For the record, that was an edited (by slowbiscuit) quote. I don't quote people and bold-type, or otherwise edit, a segment, without saying "I've placed this part in bold". Unless done this way, it is a false quote, easily taken out of context. Even just selectively quoting a part of a longer post can completely change the context.
WTH do you think FTFY means in a forum? Do some more research.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...&defid=7096722
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Old 08-06-2014, 12:17 PM   #1929
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Should I turn off the 7 second TLER (Time Limited Error Recovery) function these drives have, when using them in a TiVo?
I forsee this being a contentious topic. The proper answer is DVR's ideally should use the Streaming command set. The command set would allow the software to selectively request error recovery vs error out depending on what kind of data is being retrieved.

It was reported Tivo's don't utilize that. Your question becomes, when a DVR doesn't have proper error control, is it better to tweak the whole drive's error recovery down, utilizing the firmware feature meant for RAID (REDUNDANT) data sets.

It's going to be hard to back this up, but I lean toward leaving it on, but ideally calculating the correct value. The reason selectivity is important before is because reading off videos can have harmless errors, vs having the drive stall could cause actual video data loss (from lost write buffers). However, many types of databases and software are also on this same drive. Read failures there are going to be problematic.

When using the RED's TLER as the only error control, the proper way is to have 2 drives segregating the data. A video only drive with a low TLER and a metadata/executable drive with high error retry.

When there's never a read error, the setting should not matter. The difference is what happens when (perhaps inevitably) they start to appear. Now I suggest, it's more likely the first errors will be in insignificant video areas than in critical data areas (3TB vs 3GB), so if there's any advantage from triggering the behavior*, we should use the policy for the video sections for the whole drive (rather than the critical data policy for the whole drive).

*= it's possible that there's no advantage seen even if intended for example if someone's software crashes on any bit errors including within video, the goal would then be to minimize any read errors no matter if it'll cascade into data loss because that data would be lost no matter what, and more data will be lost as the result of a reboot.

Idk if you remember, but I suggested before TLER might be related to your drives that have remapped good sectors. You might want to turn it off and run them in the Tivo's just to see if that behavior goes away.

Last edited by telemark : 08-06-2014 at 05:28 PM.
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Old 08-06-2014, 03:36 PM   #1930
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WTH do you think FTFY means in a forum? Do some more research.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...&defid=7096722
This is the first time I've ever seen it used, in any forum, in any context, at all.

Do you expect everybody who reads anything you post to know what FTFY means, including new members? That's absurd. Your link to it's use also does not, IMO, make the way you used it in correct form. You made it appear as if I said all of it. There are other ways to do what you claim you intended to, without "putting words in my mouth", as it would appear to many. Bad form, IMNSHO.

Many that visit this thread wouldn't know what it means, and wouldn't go look it up. They'd just assume it was a quote of MY OWN WORDS, which it was not. That aside, I strongly disagree with your snarky "correction". If that's how you see it, keep me out of it, and don't make false quotes with my name attached. Nice snarky response, as well... Somebody pee in your cereal this morning? Sorry to hear that. But, don't take it out on me.
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Old 08-06-2014, 04:10 PM   #1931
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Do you expect everybody who reads anything you post to know what FTFY means, including new members? That's absurd.
While it is indeed unrealistic to expect everybody to understand it, it is a very common forum idiom. I've seen it literally hundreds of times on dozens of forums.

And since this has become rather off topic, I now zip my mouth on the matter.
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Old 08-06-2014, 04:33 PM   #1932
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I forsee this being a contentious topic.
<snip>
Idk if you remember, but I suggested before TLER might be related to your drives that have remapped good sectors. You might want to turn it off and run them in the Tivo's just to see if that behavior goes away.
That's why I hadn't brought it up yet. I doubt there will ever be a consensus, when it comes to that setting, in TiVo use. I was hoping you would be the first to chime in. I agree with your take on all of it.

As far as those sectors, they were never remapped, only marked as pending. The TiVo simply couldn't read them, but failed to do anything about it. The WD WinDLG Extended (read) test aborted with "too many bad sectors". I used HDDScan to do a read pass, and the drive marked them as "pending". Then I used WinDLG's Write Zeroes, which successfully wrote to them. Upon the next run of the extended test, the sectors were reclaimed, rather than remapped/reallocated.

I had finally installed smartmontools for Windows, the GSmartControl GUI, and spent a while learning how to use both the GUI and command line functions. The drive error logs (which I needed smartctl to view), combined with my notes, verifies the events as I just laid them out.

It would appear that it might be better to just disabler ERC/TLER, since the problem sectors were in the non-AV system areas, and the TiVo might have done something about them, if TLER was off, allowing whatever threshold the TiVo filesystem and programming has (if any) to trigger, and let the TiVo do what TiVo does with the drives usually used in them, that don't have the function.

I suspect the WD Purple drive you have (or had) also has TLER, since it's also a drive designed to work with RAID.

I've been running repeated tests using different programs for this whole time, using a new drive, one that had been in a TiVo for a few months, and the drive with the problem sectors. I've been running alternating tests, in parallel, between the three.

Even though the drive that had the issue refuses to trip-up again, the normally hidden logs show it did before. When I graph the three drives running in parallel, the other two have consistent ebb/flow, while the "issue" drive cycles high/low rapidly, with an average that brings it pretty close to the others. But, looking at the three in parallel, the "issue" drive stands out with the rapid-cycling. It passes all the internal SMART tests as well, which I just realized that WinDLG doesn't actually use (it uses the program, rather than the drive's internal tests).

The "issue" drive has considerably longer completion times for any and all tests, yet it won't fail any of them, since the sectors were reclaimed.

I researched the errors in the SMART logs, which only smartctl gave me access to, and the meanings of what was logged. It turns out that all the sector issues may have been as simple as that the ECC data didn't match the data read, and it all could just be that the data was written corrupted, and there was never any issue with the sectors themselves, at all.

I have suspicions that the "issue" drive might have a manufacturing defect, or was damaged in shipping. I think that WD is intentionally allowing a "wide berth" when it comes to just how far off something is, or how extreme value cycling has to be, before the drive will show any normally-visible smart attribute change. With the one drive, the only typically viewable SMART attribute that has changed is Raw Read Error Rate. It had dropped to 199, then returned to 200 after the sectors were reclaimed. It still lists 199 as the "worst" logged value. The hidden SMART logs show that nearly 9000 errors were logged for about a dozen LBAs. "UNC" errors led up to "IDNF" errors. Unfortunately, the logs only retain so many error instances, so ~9000 error instances is just what the logs could tell me, not the whole picture going all the way back.

As far as WD is concerned, this drive is NOT defective. I plan to attempt to return it as "being too slow to keep up with the other drives of the same model".

WD has cracked down on returns, and the support portal that must be used is no longer friendly. So, I don't know if they will let me RMA the drive, as it is now. If I had just printed-out the original failure result from WinDLG, and used it for an RMA, I'd have been fine. Now, it's not black and white anymore. I can't get the drive to fail the test again, and anything I do to "make it fail", is likely to be detectable as something forced to happen...

The only bright-side of the weeks I've spent on all this, is I now know a lot more than I did before, about drives and SMART. I can choose to put it to good use helping out here, if the snarky people don't make me decide it's not worth it.
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Old 08-06-2014, 05:25 PM   #1933
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Just remember SMART does not catch all drive problems.

This is not something people will want to hear, but I was about to bring up the suggestion of insufficient power in another thread. We have a handful of unexplained symptoms that might be explained by that. But it's not a simple scapegoat. If there's indeed not enough power, it'll be measurable and noticeable.

Your symptoms, if not TLER related, it also sounds like weak writes.
http://www.hdsentinel.com/hard_disk_...ak_sectors.php

Do you remember what kind of Tivo / power supply it was "written" with?
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Old 08-06-2014, 05:51 PM   #1934
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Just remember SMART does not catch all drive problems.

This is not something people will want to hear, but I was about to bring up the suggestion of insufficient power in another thread. We have a handful of unexplained symptoms that might be explained by that. But it's not a simple scapegoat. If there's indeed not enough power, it'll be measurable and noticeable.

Your symptoms, if not TLER related, it also sounds like weak writes.
http://www.hdsentinel.com/hard_disk_...ak_sectors.php

Do you remember what kind of Tivo / power supply it was "written" with?
Yes, I'm aware of that. I tend to post that fact quite often. It's also why I've been doing tests on three drives, in parallel, using differing software, alternating the tests, and often running the SMART tests in-between the tests that don't use SMART, while also checking the drives' internal logs. I did notice that automatic offline surface testing was factory-disabled on the Reds. I also found that querying the them during a test will abort the test, which might explain the never-ending test runs with TiVo KS54. Polling the status interrupts the test. Since it's really a "suspend", as opposed to an "abort", the polling will keep suspending the test, without reporting failure to complete.

The linked article you provided reads like it was written, exactly for what I encountered.

Great minds think alike. I do worry about the wall-wart power supplies that my three Roamio base-models use. They require air-space around them, and are just short of what I'd call "hot to the touch". I've seen reports of some using 7200RPM drives with them, without issues, as well of reports of 7200RPM drives failing to even spin-up with them. Every time I have brought up my concerns, I would get heaps of replies that say my concerns are invalid.

I may have to rig up a fixture to insert inline, and run a history with my handy Fluke combo meter/scope. Unfortunately, the software for doing a running history was written for DOS. I can feel the power supplies get hotter, when the TiVos are very busy, and thrashing the disks during processing of guide data, and whatnot. I really need to find my IR temperature gun, and get some real temp values, rather than using my fingers...
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Old 08-06-2014, 05:57 PM   #1935
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This is not something people will want to hear, but I was about to bring up the suggestion of insufficient power in another thread. We have a handful of unexplained symptoms that might be explained by that. But it's not a simple scapegoat. If there's indeed not enough power, it'll be measurable and noticeable.
Can you please provide links to these threads? I try to subscribe to all the threads you are active in. But, many of them don't have a lot of activity, and get pushed off the new posts threads quickly, at the rate people are joining and starting a new thread for their each and every problem...

Your input, help, and other participation is greatly appreciated. I always wish there was more I could do to participate in your endeavors.
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Old 08-06-2014, 06:41 PM   #1936
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@telemark

I'll state that all my TiVos are on verified operational battery backup UPS.

I'll also float the fact that WD Red NAS drives are marketed as having the capability to complete queued operations in the event of a power failure. I was a bit put-off by the new incarnation with NASware 3.0 fixing some issue with that function. I wonder if that feature has a defect in previous drives, that makes the drive more vulnerable to weak writes if the power fluctuates, or gets weak, as opposed to a power loss, or as opposed to drives without that feature...

Queue-up everything you feel I should test, and I'll get to it. I'm getting tired of repeating all the other parallel tests I've been doing.

While I know it's likely related to the panel itself, the TiVo that had this problem, has almost twice as bright lights on the front panel, than the most stable one, and still brighter than the third one in another room, which seems fairly stable.
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Old 08-06-2014, 06:42 PM   #1937
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Can you please provide links to these threads? I try to subscribe to all the threads you are active in. But, many of them don't have a lot of activity, and get pushed off the new posts threads quickly, at the rate people are joining and starting a new thread for their each and every problem...

Your input, help, and other participation is greatly appreciated. I always wish there was more I could do to participate in your endeavors.
Click on the name and there would be a "Find more post by....."
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Old 08-06-2014, 06:58 PM   #1938
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Click on the name and there would be a "Find more post by....."
Thanks...

I had thought about it, after posting, and realized I could do that. I've done it before, when trying to keep up with the most beneficial members' activities...

I think too much analytics of my drive tests, and all the extra learning involved with using smartmontools and interpreting the volume of data it unleashes may have fried the "simple answers" section of my brain...

I currently have 242 browser tabs open, and none of them go unused for long...
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Old 08-06-2014, 07:16 PM   #1939
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I currently have 242 browser tabs open, and none of them go unused for long...
For me, 2 browser windows with 2 tabs each is about the max I could handle.
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Old 08-06-2014, 07:33 PM   #1940
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For me, 2 browser windows with 2 tabs each is about the max I could handle.
Is that a sanity limit, or hardware/OS/browser limit?

Chrome on Win7x64 is responsible for my insanity. When I was using IE, more than 10 tabs total would take all my memory and crash the whole thing, sooner than later. Chrome stays up for days, and remembers what was open when I get a lock-up, requiring hard-cycle. 20 windows with ~20 tabs each is my limit, if I want to keep my remote desktops open to my drive testing machines...

Not bad for a $150 second-hand laptop, with a $30 used-memory upgrade. I've worn most of the letters off the keyboard...

The much-newer and powerful laptops I have are sitting in a pile, due to them being locked to Windows 8/8.1, and the BIOS/TPM preventing putting Windows 7 on them... I hate that BS. I sent one back because it was so locked-down, not even the battery could be removed (and forget getting to the hard drive, memory, etc).

Since I'm neck-deep in drive testing insanity, I'm open to any tests anybody would like me to run. Much of the excesses I go to are so I can post what I've seen and done, myself, rather than parrot what others report and say.
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Old 08-06-2014, 07:38 PM   #1941
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Is that a sanity limit, or hardware/OS/browser limit?

Since I'm neck-deep in drive testing insanity, I'm open to any tests anybody would like me to run. Much of the excesses I go to are so I can post what I've seen and done, myself, rather than parrot what others report and say.
Grey matter limit Firefox browser, hardly never use IE. I have heard recently over news to never use IE (security issues) and I haven't used it in decades.
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Old 08-07-2014, 07:37 AM   #1942
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This is the first time I've ever seen it used, in any forum, in any context, at all.

Do you expect everybody who reads anything you post to know what FTFY means, including new members? That's absurd. Your link to it's use also does not, IMO, make the way you used it in correct form. You made it appear as if I said all of it. There are other ways to do what you claim you intended to, without "putting words in my mouth", as it would appear to many. Bad form, IMNSHO.
The way I used it (strike-through with my own response instead) is exactly how everyone uses it on every forum I've been on, and it's obvious to regulars that FTFY means that I changed your quote to sub my own. I don't really care what noobs think, they'll figure it out if they have a clue.

You've now learned something new on the intarwebs, have a nice day.
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Old 08-07-2014, 09:16 AM   #1943
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Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
By using an AV drive, you get PWL (preemptive wear leveling). This involves the drive firmware sweeping the heads across the entire surface of the platters, beyond just the surface area the data tracks are on, at timed intervals.

This helps to eliminate issues when an event causes the drive to move the heads to an area that has not been accessed during use, or not accessed for a long time. It's especially helpful when one pulls power from the TiVo, after the drive has been running for a long time, and it will attempt to park the heads onto the loading ramp. Without PWL, the chances of a drive that has been operating perfectly, never operating again after certain events, is increased.

What some get confused about, when it comes to PWL, is that it's not about wear leveling the platters, heads, or sectors. It wear levels the pivot point of the head actuator, and keeps the lubricant evenly distributed, as well as the wear.

If one never unplugs the TiVo, keeps it on battery backup (UPS), which keeps the heads limited to the data tracks, limiting the movement of the head actuator, the odds of the drive not spinning up again, after being losing power (for any reason), is greatly increased.

To keep bickering to a minimum, I'll stick to this as the greatest benefit of AV drives, over other drives. PWL is operational, regardless of whether or not the streaming feature of an AV drive is being used.
Most WD hard drives use "PWL" (not just AV drives), but it can only be activated when the hard drive is idle. A DVR is never idle, so the PWL is never activated. I know what you're thinking. "Then why would they put that feature in an AV drive?" They didn't, they left it in there just for marketing hype so they can use the same buzzwords as flash drives.

For those who don't know about PWL, all it does is to try to keep the lubricant in the pivot head a little more evenly distributed. The pivot head is a bearing. Bearings work best when they rotate 360 degrees. A pivot head only rotates ~60 degrees for its entire life. There's concern/marketing hype that some lubricant (goop) may accumulate on the edges of travel. When you park the head, the head moves near one of these edges. The head might get stuck in the goop and you have a dead hard drive. Except that in the four years I worked there, there wasn't a single failure due to this so-called problem. That's because no goop actually accumulates, as the inside of a hard drive is dust free. Worse, when the PWL feature activates it sounds just like a failing hard drive. It's loud and grinding. People on the Internet complain about it. You wouldn't want it in a DVR that's supposed to be quiet.

I used to work for one of these companies. If you read the data sheets you will slowly go insane, because it is filled with half-truths, features which don't do anything, and other useless information. Get out now while you still have your sanity!

Last edited by BobCamp1 : 08-07-2014 at 09:29 AM.
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Old 08-07-2014, 09:59 AM   #1944
BobCamp1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
I've been meaning to ask a question here...

Should I turn off the 7 second TLER (Time Limited Error Recovery) function these drives have, when using them in a TiVo?
TLER is only useful for RAID installations. In theory it would hurt in a single drive application, but it only gets invoked once the hard drive is dying. Leaving it on for normal use shouldn't matter. I might turn it off only if I'm trying to copy the data off a failing hard drive. Otherwise there's no harm in leaving it on.

I also remember that WD had a problem with one of their tools, and that running it to turn off that feature would accidentally brick the hard drive. I assumed they fixed that by now. I also remember that you couldn't turn it off for some models.

That hard drive you were having problems with did sound like a weak write. I wouldn't trust that hard drive. Weak writes should never happen.

Last edited by BobCamp1 : 08-07-2014 at 10:35 AM.
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Old 08-07-2014, 12:43 PM   #1945
clouduser1
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green AV bought! thanks for the guidance. ill let you peeps know when i get it. ill be posting on the installing thread (if there is one)
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Old 08-07-2014, 02:51 PM   #1946
nooneuknow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobCamp1 View Post
Most WD hard drives use "PWL" (not just AV drives), but it can only be activated when the hard drive is idle. A DVR is never idle, so the PWL is never activated.<snip>
I respectfully disagree with nearly everything you posted, but only quoted this part.

How long ago did you work in the industry, as you claim you did?

Most of what you posted sounds outdated, like as if (happens with the best of us) you left a job in an industry, lost your ability to have access to inside information you say you had, and what you know from then, no longer applies now. No offense intended. We can't verify your employment. Technology also doesn't stay the same as what it was, when leaving a job in such technology.
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Cisco tuning adapters should never be used inline (using the TA coax OUT port) to connect a TiVo, if MoCA is in use. Use a splitter w/PoE filter on leg to TA, use other leg for the TiVo. Enjoy!
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Old 08-08-2014, 10:58 AM   #1947
telemark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
Can you please provide links to these threads?
I created a new thread for power analysis and included them there:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=519901
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Old 08-08-2014, 01:15 PM   #1948
nooneuknow
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Originally Posted by telemark View Post
I created a new thread for power analysis and included them there:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=519901
Thank You!
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Old 08-08-2014, 07:25 PM   #1949
nooneuknow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by telemark View Post
I created a new thread for power analysis and included them there:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=519901
For those who have Cisco tuning adapters, and base Roamios, you might want to take a look at what might be a possible solution, if the 12V, 2.0A wall-wart is stressing with drive upgrades.

Heck, I'll just copy it over:

Quote:
Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
The wall-warts for my base Roamios are 12V 2.0A.
The BRICKS for my tuning adapters are 12V 2.5A.

I verified the plugs make proper contact when swapped, and the polarity is the same. I have not tried swapping the two around, live (yet).

Any comments or questions? It would seem like a TA should require less than a whole TiVo.

They are the Cisco STA1520 TAs. Could it be a solution is right there for those with these TAs (possibly even other TAs)?

If I wasn't such an honest guy, I'd have three extra of those Cisco bricks (made by LiteOn). When I went to return three of them, the rep told me all they needed was the TA, and not the rest. I explained that they were wrong, and gave them the bricks, power cord, and coax that each came with. But, I kept the self-install kit(s) contents: splitter, high-end coax, MoCA PoE filter, etc.

If I'd just gave them the TA's alone, I'd have three 2.5A bricks to use, without using the 2.0A TiVo wall-warts for the TAs.

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Cisco tuning adapters should never be used inline (using the TA coax OUT port) to connect a TiVo, if MoCA is in use. Use a splitter w/PoE filter on leg to TA, use other leg for the TiVo. Enjoy!
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Old 08-10-2014, 02:48 PM   #1950
ShoutingMan
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Forgive me for wanting a quick summary of a 65 page thread I've read the first several pages and last couple, but not the middle 50 pages...

Is it still the case that a Tivo Roamio Plus can be upgraded simply by removing the original drive, plug in a new drive, and power up? Nothing else?

And this is the right type of hard drive: http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digita...QGI_B00DXOJJQQ

I assume I'd lose all recordings on the original drive. What about season passes, settings, etc; are those lost too?
Are there any downsides,
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