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Old 07-26-2014, 06:04 PM   #1891
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After reading a bunch of these posts and threads i have come to the conclusion that the best method to upgrade the storage on my roamio plus is swapping out the internal storage for a 3tb drive. Iv read that any hd will work but does any body know which works best? WD has a a color system to differentiate between hd types; green, blue, black, red, red pro, etc. Does anybody know which is best?

thanks a bunch!
Mostly we would say Green, but there is a specific kind that will work in DVRs, Green and AV, they were designed to run 24/7. For WD drives, 10EURS/X, 20EURS/X, 30EURS/X. For anything larger then 3TB, it may not work or there is a workaround.
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Old 07-27-2014, 12:09 AM   #1892
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Originally Posted by clouduser1 View Post
After reading a bunch of these posts and threads i have come to the conclusion that the best method to upgrade the storage on my roamio plus is swapping out the internal storage for a 3tb drive. Iv read that any hd will work but does any body know which works best? WD has a a color system to differentiate between hd types; green, blue, black, red, red pro, etc. Does anybody know which is best?

thanks a bunch!
I don't think there is a hands down best, TiVo does not make use of the special commands in the WD AV drives, I have used different green drives or red drives and never had a problem, or saw any difference. People do have options as to the best drive, but nobody has any real proof of the best drive, low power is your best bet so stay away from fast PC drives with fast RPM and fast data retrieval times.
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Old 07-27-2014, 02:03 AM   #1893
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I don't think there is a hands down best, TiVo does not make use of the special commands in the WD AV drives, I have used different green drives or red drives and never had a problem, or saw any difference. People do have options as to the best drive, but nobody has any real proof of the best drive, low power is your best bet so stay away from fast PC drives with fast RPM and fast data retrieval times.
Just some added points:

While TiVo does not use the ATA/AV streaming feature, WD Red NAS also has the that feature included. The new NASware 3.0 versions support it, but it is disabled by default, and must be turned on to be available (which isn't necessary for TiVo use anyway).

The other new Red NAS Pro line of drives are 7200RPM, and not recommended for TiVo use, due to this (going by the low-power, low RPM, and low heat profiles the majority here recommend).

The WD AV-GP, Red NAS, and Purple Surveillance drives meet all the profiles the majority recommend, and have a 3 year warranty, instead of 2 year for lesser drives. The price difference is often worth paying to get the extra year of warranty.

It's my opinion, that the WD Purple's rated workload of 60TB/yr, is inadequate for longevity in TiVo use. On the other hand, the AV-GP drives don't have a published rated workload, so there's no way to know if it is any different in rated yearly workload.

See my prior recent posts for the long versions on ratings, some helpful comparison charts, and links to back up what I say in those posts.

If you don't care about longevity (lifespan), warranty, or anything else beyond price, capacity, and staying within acceptable power load, then grab any 5400-5900 RPM or "intellipower" (high energy efficiency/green) drive, up to 3TB, and slap it in. 4TB is possible with free tools/images, requiring a PC to "prepare" the drive (Since a Roamio can currently only prepare up to 3TB drives, on it's own).

Be aware that there are a lot of WD Red NAS drives in reseller inventory that are NASware 2.0, and the new ones are NASware 3.0. The 2.0 can't be updated to 3.0, due to the whole drive being updated, not just a firmware difference.
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Old 07-27-2014, 01:56 PM   #1894
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Just some added points:

While TiVo does not use the ATA/AV streaming feature, WD Red NAS also has the that feature included. The new NASware 3.0 versions support it, but it is disabled by default, and must be turned on to be available (which isn't necessary for TiVo use anyway).

The other new Red NAS Pro line of drives are 7200RPM, and not recommended for TiVo use, due to this (going by the low-power, low RPM, and low heat profiles the majority here recommend).

The WD AV-GP, Red NAS, and Purple Surveillance drives meet all the profiles the majority recommend, and have a 3 year warranty, instead of 2 year for lesser drives. The price difference is often worth paying to get the extra year of warranty.

It's my opinion, that the WD Purple's rated workload of 60TB/yr, is inadequate for longevity in TiVo use. On the other hand, the AV-GP drives don't have a published rated workload, so there's no way to know if it is any different in rated yearly workload.

See my prior recent posts for the long versions on ratings, some helpful comparison charts, and links to back up what I say in those posts.

If you don't care about longevity (lifespan), warranty, or anything else beyond price, capacity, and staying within acceptable power load, then grab any 5400-5900 RPM or "intellipower" (high energy efficiency/green) drive, up to 3TB, and slap it in. 4TB is possible with free tools/images, requiring a PC to "prepare" the drive (Since a Roamio can currently only prepare up to 3TB drives, on it's own).

Be aware that there are a lot of WD Red NAS drives in reseller inventory that are NASware 2.0, and the new ones are NASware 3.0. The 2.0 can't be updated to 3.0, due to the whole drive being updated, not just a firmware difference.
Thank you all so much for the recommendations! I see that amazon has a green WD for 100 bucks and purple for 129 (http://www.amazon.com/Intellipower-s...tal+purple+3tb) i think ill get the purple for longevity purposes.
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Old 07-27-2014, 02:55 PM   #1895
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Thank you all so much for the recommendations! I see that amazon has a green WD for 100 bucks and purple for 129 (http://www.amazon.com/Intellipower-s...tal+purple+3tb) i think ill get the purple for longevity purposes.
So you're going to buy the unit that costs more than a recommended drive? that makes no sense..
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Old 07-27-2014, 03:53 PM   #1896
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So you're going to buy the unit that costs more than a recommended drive? that makes no sense..
i thought that the purple meet all the requirements for tivo use
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Old 07-27-2014, 04:11 PM   #1897
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i thought that the purple meet all the requirements for tivo use
The post you quoted had a section on why the poster thought the Purple line was potentially not as good a choice, but there's certainly no reason to NOT choose the Green which has a great track record in Tivo's and is $30 less in your post.
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Old 07-27-2014, 04:17 PM   #1898
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The post you quoted had a section on why the poster thought the Purple line was potentially not as good a choice, but there's certainly no reason to NOT choose the Green which has a great track record in Tivo's and is $30 less in your post.
reason why i went for the purple over the green is because of the concerns over longevity; purple seems to be designed for constant rewriting of data 24/7 (surveillance camera use). I thought that they both would work well. But if the green is the best then i wouldn't mind saving some cash.
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Old 07-27-2014, 04:20 PM   #1899
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I think there's green and green AV-GP and the latter is intended for 24/7 DVR use.
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Old 07-27-2014, 04:36 PM   #1900
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I think there's green and green AV-GP and the latter is intended for 24/7 DVR use.

like this one?

http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digita...words=WD30EURS
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Old 07-27-2014, 04:39 PM   #1901
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Yep.
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Old 07-27-2014, 09:38 PM   #1902
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Multi-reply:

The WD AV-GP is what most go with. It's what TiVo uses, in the models they use WD drives in. They started using Seagate AV low-power drives in Roamio basics, which are just another brand AV 24/7 "green" drive.

The WD Purple has no track record yet. It's a new product. I know of one person who has used one in a TiVo, but only to develop a free 4TB upgrade path.

The first incarnation of the WD Red NAS, was terrible, and highly incompatible with a great many things. They fixed that with the second generation, and just released a third generation of it.

If you want the combination of: best price, best warranty, 24/7 "rating", and best track record for use in TiVos, just get the WD AV-GP (AV-GreenPower).

Let somebody else run a WD Purple for long enough to see how it holds up. Better yet, wait until many people have used it and reported good results, after a substantial length of time.

EDIT/ADD: Here's the drive (WD30EURX 3TB AV-GP), from the place I always buy from (NewEgg), where it goes on sale for as low as $119.99, about once a month. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822236602
Ignore any links to "newer version available", and if you want different sizes, select the size from the right side of the screen.
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Old 07-28-2014, 02:35 AM   #1903
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Multi-reply:

The WD AV-GP is what most go with. It's what TiVo uses, in the models they use WD drives in. They started using Seagate AV low-power drives in Roamio basics, which are just another brand AV 24/7 "green" drive.

The WD Purple has no track record yet. It's a new product. I know of one person who has used one in a TiVo, but only to develop a free 4TB upgrade path.

The first incarnation of the WD Red NAS, was terrible, and highly incompatible with a great many things. They fixed that with the second generation, and just released a third generation of it.

If you want the combination of: best price, best warranty, 24/7 "rating", and best track record for use in TiVos, just get the WD AV-GP (AV-GreenPower).

Let somebody else run a WD Purple for long enough to see how it holds up. Better yet, wait until many people have used it and reported good results, after a substantial length of time.

EDIT/ADD: Here's the drive (WD30EURX 3TB AV-GP), from the place I always buy from (NewEgg), where it goes on sale for as low as $119.99, about once a month. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822236602
Ignore any links to "newer version available", and if you want different sizes, select the size from the right side of the screen.

thanks a bunch for your reply, ill checkout newegg periodically. The world cup killed my storage
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Old 07-28-2014, 02:50 AM   #1904
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thanks a bunch for your reply, ill checkout newegg periodically. The world cup killed my storage
Make sure to subscribe to their email promos. Without them, you often can't get the super-low prices, because some promo codes only work if subscribed for emails, and the best deals often are codes that are unique to the subscriber's email address. If you don't feel like setting up filtering to keep the clutter out of your inbox, use something other than your main email address.

If you like NewEgg, check into the yearly subscription for Premier Benefits. It's like Amazon Prime, but much cheaper, plus getting you faster shipping than the standard free shipping, no restocking fees, and no-cost return shipping. My membership paid for itself with my first order (seriously). I also get member only codes, and deals, plus an exclusive no-wait toll-free number to customer service, which will sometimes result in being able to get things done, outside policy, as a courtesy. Too many great things to list!
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Old 07-28-2014, 05:49 AM   #1905
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............ EDIT/ADD: Here's the drive (WD30EURX 3TB AV-GP), from the place I always buy from (NewEgg), where it goes on sale for as low as $119.99, about once a month. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822236602 Ignore any links to "newer version available", and if you want different sizes, select the size from the right side of the screen.
I bought my WD30EURX 3TB at Best Buy for about $117, so you may want to check there as well.
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Old 07-28-2014, 06:30 AM   #1906
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I bought my WD30EURX 3TB at Best Buy for about $117, so you may want to check there as well.
That's impressive, considering the lowest Newegg price to date has been $114.99, as a shell-shocker deal.

Buying locally, and paying sales tax (or calculating it before committing), should be a factor. Sales tax here is ~7.75%, which would be $9.07 in tax, making that price $126.07. Might as well buy from a reseller that doesn't add tax, and has free shipping, unless "you just gotta have that drive right now".

The other thing that stands-out is I have yet to see any 3TB EURX or EURS drives at my local stores. But, they have the non-AV 2yr warranty 3TB EZRX for that price, when they bother to stock the shelves. The online inventory never matches with what's in the stores here, either...

I'm kind of spoiled in snagging the deals, and getting the drive delivered the next business day, with Premier membership shipping. OTOH, before they started that program, the standard free shipping still got here that fast , most of the time.
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Old 07-28-2014, 11:25 AM   #1907
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That's impressive, considering the lowest Newegg price to date has been $114.99, as a shell-shocker deal.

Buying locally, and paying sales tax (or calculating it before committing), should be a factor. Sales tax here is ~7.75%, which would be $9.07 in tax, making that price $126.07. Might as well buy from a reseller that doesn't add tax, and has free shipping, unless "you just gotta have that drive right now".

The other thing that stands-out is I have yet to see any 3TB EURX or EURS drives at my local stores. But, they have the non-AV 2yr warranty 3TB EZRX for that price, when they bother to stock the shelves. The online inventory never matches with what's in the stores here, either...

I'm kind of spoiled in snagging the deals, and getting the drive delivered the next business day, with Premier membership shipping. OTOH, before they started that program, the standard free shipping still got here that fast , most of the time.
I don't trust NewEgg with hard drives as I've had several shipped in just a plastic "clam-shell" case, rattling around in a huge box half-filled with peanuts. Sure, they worked, but it's hard to tell if they're going to manifest latent problems. Granted, it's been a few months since I asked their customer service, but the last time I asked they would NOT guarantee that they'll be shipped in "appropriate" packaging. (I do use NewEgg often for other equipment.)

Finally, I'll pay a few dollars more for a local store because DOA drives can be easily and quickly returned. (I've heard that the latest WD Reds have a high "infant mortality" rate with many either DOA or dead in a week.) Not that I'm recommending Red drives for Tivo use.
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Old 07-28-2014, 12:13 PM   #1908
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I don't trust NewEgg with hard drives as I've had several shipped in just a plastic "clam-shell" case, rattling around in a huge box half-filled with peanuts. Sure, they worked, but it's hard to tell if they're going to manifest latent problems. Granted, it's been a few months since I asked their customer service, but the last time I asked they would NOT guarantee that they'll be shipped in "appropriate" packaging. (I do use NewEgg often for other equipment.)

Finally, I'll pay a few dollars more for a local store because DOA drives can be easily and quickly returned. (I've heard that the latest WD Reds have a high "infant mortality" rate with many either DOA or dead in a week.) Not that I'm recommending Red drives for Tivo use.
Newegg stopped shipping like that, quite a while back. Their current packaging is better than WD's, IMO, and I have not seen a packing peanut in any box from Newegg, in something like what seems a year.

Both desktop and laptop drives are shipped in a special air-mattress packaging, designed for drives, there is no moving around. Each is snugly enclosed in a small box, multiple drives are shipped in multiple boxes, inside a larger box, and any room inside the box is filled with air-filled pillow-pak packaging. They went from being the worst reseller, when it came to shipping drives, to the best I am aware of. Their customer service was good before I became a Premiere member. Now, I don't have to hold, and have not had anything but the best interactions with them.

If everybody insists on posting about some past bad experience(s), I can't stop it, and it's pointless for me to say more than I already have.
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Old 07-28-2014, 12:43 PM   #1909
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this guy on eBay is selling them for about 100 bucks;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Western-...item1c4352cea8

He has no reviews tho...idk if i should gamble haha
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Old 07-28-2014, 05:51 PM   #1910
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this guy on eBay is selling them for about 100 bucks;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Western-...item1c4352cea8

He has no reviews tho...idk if i should gamble haha
I just got (for a friend) a WD 3Tb drive from Amazon and the green label did not look like the one this E-Bay seller is using. $107 prime shipping

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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Old 07-28-2014, 06:18 PM   #1911
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I just got (for a friend) a WD 3Tb drive from Amazon and the green label did not look like the one this E-Bay seller is using. $107 prime shipping

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
This is a WD30EZRX, even though its a green drive, its not an AV drive. The Ebay one is a WD30EURX, which is an AV drive.
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Old 07-28-2014, 10:07 PM   #1912
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This is a WD30EZRX, even though its a green drive, its not an AV drive. The Ebay one is a WD30EURX, which is an AV drive.
For TiVo use it makes no difference, but each to their own opinion.
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Old 07-28-2014, 10:46 PM   #1913
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This is a WD30EZRX, even though its a green drive, its not an AV drive. The Ebay one is a WD30EURX, which is an AV drive.
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For TiVo use it makes no difference, but each to their own opinion.
Exactly, the AV drive has some command extensions Tivo doesn't use, a ton of folks here use the straight Green and have no issues other than the old WDIDLE reset a few years ago.
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Old 07-29-2014, 01:18 AM   #1914
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That's impressive, considering the lowest Newegg price to date has been $114.99, as a shell-shocker deal. Buying locally, and paying sales tax (or calculating it before committing), should be a factor. Sales tax here is ~7.75%, which would be $9.07 in tax, making that price $126.07. Might as well buy from a reseller that doesn't add tax, and has free shipping, unless "you just gotta have that drive right now". The other thing that stands-out is I have yet to see any 3TB EURX or EURS drives at my local stores. But, they have the non-AV 2yr warranty 3TB EZRX for that price, when they bother to stock the shelves. The online inventory never matches with what's in the stores here, either... I'm kind of spoiled in snagging the deals, and getting the drive delivered the next business day, with Premier membership shipping. OTOH, before they started that program, the standard free shipping still got here that fast , most of the time.
Actually now that everyone's talking about it, I think that the one I got from BB was an EZRX. That may explain the price.
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Old 07-29-2014, 01:52 PM   #1915
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Function a TiVo drive should have, found in AV drives: PWL (Preemptive Wear Leveling)

By using an AV drive, you get PWL (preemptive wear leveling). This involves the drive firmware sweeping the heads across the entire surface of the platters, beyond just the surface area the data tracks are on, at timed intervals.

This helps to eliminate issues when an event causes the drive to move the heads to an area that has not been accessed during use, or not accessed for a long time. It's especially helpful when one pulls power from the TiVo, after the drive has been running for a long time, and it will attempt to park the heads onto the loading ramp. Without PWL, the chances of a drive that has been operating perfectly, never operating again after certain events, is increased.

What some get confused about, when it comes to PWL, is that it's not about wear leveling the platters, heads, or sectors. It wear levels the pivot point of the head actuator, and keeps the lubricant evenly distributed, as well as the wear.

If one never unplugs the TiVo, keeps it on battery backup (UPS), which keeps the heads limited to the data tracks, limiting the movement of the head actuator, the odds of the drive not spinning up again, after being losing power (for any reason), is greatly increased.

To keep bickering to a minimum, I'll stick to this as the greatest benefit of AV drives, over other drives. PWL is operational, regardless of whether or not the streaming feature of an AV drive is being used.
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Old 07-29-2014, 02:19 PM   #1916
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I previously had a 2TB drive in a Tivo Series 3 HDTV DVR. The Series 3 is retired and I removed the 2TB drive from it. I now have a base Roamio. Can I put the 2TB drive in the Roamio as is, or would I need to do some kind of reformatting before installing it in the Roamio? If so, what steps would I need to take to prep the drive for the Roamio?

Thanks.

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Old 07-29-2014, 02:58 PM   #1917
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I previously had a 2TB drive in a Tivo Series 3 HDTV DVR. The Series 3 is retired and I removed the 2TB drive from it. I now have a base Roamio. Can I put the 2TB drive in the Roamio as is, or would I need to do some kind of reformatting before installing it in the Roamio? If so, what steps would I need to take to prep the drive for the Roamio?

Thanks.
Use the WD diag (or any other program) to do a quick erase of the drive, then just put the drive into the Roamio and set the system up.
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Old 07-29-2014, 09:03 PM   #1918
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what steps would I need to take to prep the drive for the Roamio?
The only things that require special attention are drives that came out of a Roamio which need to blanked or drives that are greater than 3TB which need to be preformatted / imaged.

While you have the drive accessible, take the time to test it (manufacturers util or at minimum SMART) and set any parameters. (what model is it?)

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Old 07-29-2014, 10:54 PM   #1919
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(what model is it?)
Telemark, the drive is a 2TB WD20EURS. I had it my Series3 for about 10 months of service time.
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Old 07-30-2014, 08:55 AM   #1920
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Originally Posted by rnopelo View Post
Telemark, the drive is a 2TB WD20EURS. I had it my Series3 for about 10 months of service time.
Use the WD diag program (free) to do a quick erase and the drive will now work in your Roamio.
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Les Daniels

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3 Roamio Plus upgraded to 2Tb & 3Tb, and 2 Minis,
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