TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Roamio DVRs
TiVo Community
Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 15 votes, 4.67 average.
Old 11-17-2013, 11:27 PM   #1351
nooneuknow
TiVo User Since 2007
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cox Cable Market, NV
Posts: 1,512
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePA1 View Post
I feel people are smart enough to know when they upgrade the HD they are voiding the warranty.
That is merely an assumption, on your part. There's an ages-old saying about assuming things.

You just joined this month, and have 3 posts, at the time of this post. How could you possibly know the makeup/breakdown of the members here, and what their levels of knowledge and expertise are? (That's a rhetorical question). I just assumed something, about you, and would guess you don't like that I did... Just making a point.
__________________
For Sale: 2TB WD20EURS AV-GP drives. 6 available, 4 new factory sealed w/warranty. Pre-imaged 2TB for Premiere 746320 & HD 652160 available, 2 lightly used w/warranty. Must sell! PM offers/questions.

Last edited by nooneuknow : 11-17-2013 at 11:36 PM.
nooneuknow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2013, 06:10 PM   #1352
MikePA1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
That is merely an assumption, on your part. There's an ages-old saying about assuming things.

You just joined this month, and have 3 posts, at the time of this post. How could you possibly know the makeup/breakdown of the members here, and what their levels of knowledge and expertise are? (That's a rhetorical question). I just assumed something, about you, and would guess you don't like that I did... Just making a point.
Simple, I have a better opinion of people's intelligence than you apparently do. Most people would know if they take a piece of electronic equipment apart, they void the warranty.
MikePA1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2013, 07:11 PM   #1353
nooneuknow
TiVo User Since 2007
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cox Cable Market, NV
Posts: 1,512
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePA1 View Post
Simple, I have a better opinion of people's intelligence than you apparently do. Most people would know if they take a piece of electronic equipment apart, they void the warranty.
Whatever...

I'm not commenting any further, which is not an acknowledgement that I agree with anything, and/or that I couldn't find anything to disagree with.

You made your statement, I made mine. Anything further would just be "bickering", which is against the forum rules, as well as going Off-Topic, which is also frowned upon.
__________________
For Sale: 2TB WD20EURS AV-GP drives. 6 available, 4 new factory sealed w/warranty. Pre-imaged 2TB for Premiere 746320 & HD 652160 available, 2 lightly used w/warranty. Must sell! PM offers/questions.

Last edited by nooneuknow : 11-18-2013 at 07:23 PM.
nooneuknow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2013, 10:33 PM   #1354
drm31415
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 2
4TB Warning

Someone may want to post info about 4TB drives not working yet on page 1 or page 5(where atleast 1 site links) so some dummy doesn't assume that since WKs offers 4TB that it will work. Because that dummy could buy a 4TB Seagate Video drive because of that and then feel really dumb.
drm31415 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2013, 10:36 PM   #1355
drm31415
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 2
External Drive

How are WKs adding 4GB external drives, I thought only the 1TB WD DVR extender worked?
drm31415 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013, 03:05 AM   #1356
MikePA1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
Whatever...

I'm not commenting any further, which is not an acknowledgement that I agree with anything, and/or that I couldn't find anything to disagree with.

You made your statement, I made mine. Anything further would just be "bickering", which is against the forum rules, as well as going Off-Topic, which is also frowned upon.
I agree with everything in your last post.
MikePA1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013, 03:06 AM   #1357
MikePA1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by drm31415 View Post
How are WKs adding 4GB external drives, I thought only the 1TB WD DVR extender worked?
Only WKs knows.
MikePA1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013, 08:31 AM   #1358
BobCamp1
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 970
Quote:
Originally Posted by drm31415 View Post
How are WKs adding 4GB external drives, I thought only the 1TB WD DVR extender worked?
The Tivo can't prepare a blank 4 TB hard drive by itself. You have to connect the hard drive to a PC and use a special tool to prepare the drive for the Tivo. Once the drive has been prepared ahead of time, the Roamio can use it without major problems.

Weakness has developed such a tool, but no one else has developed a free version of this tool yet.
BobCamp1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013, 11:16 AM   #1359
lpwcomp
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: John's Creek, Georgia
Posts: 4,370
The fact that weaKnees can do it means that it can be done. Of course, they may have access to some secret sauce recipe from TiVo that may be difficult to decode.
__________________
James L. Sutherland
"You know TiVo users. Bunch of b****y little girls" TiVoAxe

"Jessica Fletcher visits Midsomer. Carnage ensues!"
lpwcomp is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013, 09:37 PM   #1360
headless chicken
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 206
Is WD the only brand compatible with Tivo (Roamio)?

What is the largest possible drive I can insert myself (I see weaknees does 8GB) and would you recommend the WD Black/Red/Green?
headless chicken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013, 09:54 PM   #1361
jmpage2
Registered User
 
jmpage2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,862
Quote:
Originally Posted by headless chicken View Post
Is WD the only brand compatible with Tivo (Roamio)?

What is the largest possible drive I can insert myself (I see weaknees does 8GB) and would you recommend the WD Black/Red/Green?
aV drives are recommended for reasons you can find by searching this thread or doing a google search. Other AV drives work and some TiVo Roamio boxes are shipping with Seagate AV drives.
jmpage2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013, 10:03 PM   #1362
Tivogre
Registered User
 
Tivogre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Springfield, VA
Posts: 1,203
So... If one were to buy a 4tb Weaknees drive, and a blank 4tb drive, what are the odds that a dd "clone" could result in two working 4tb drives?

It SHOULD work... Right?
__________________
FIOS, Baby!!!
2x Tivo Roamio Pro,
5 x Tivo Mini
Samsung 72", 56", 4 x 32" HDTV
Sony 40" HDTV
iRule + iTach Remotes
Tivogre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013, 10:20 PM   #1363
nooneuknow
TiVo User Since 2007
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cox Cable Market, NV
Posts: 1,512
Quote:
Originally Posted by headless chicken View Post
Is WD the only brand compatible with Tivo (Roamio)?

What is the largest possible drive I can insert myself (I see weaknees does 8GB) and would you recommend the WD Black/Red/Green?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
aV drives are recommended for reasons you can find by searching this thread or doing a google search. Other AV drives work and some TiVo Roamio boxes are shipping with Seagate AV drives.
I'm not even going to argue all the reasons why an AV-drive isn't a necessity, but merely recommended more, since TiVo uses them (although not using the actual AV-functions that make them AV-rated), they usually have a longer warranty than non-premium drives, and the price difference is not as large as it used to be.

What concerns me about your reply, was the poster's question of "WD Black/Red/Green?", largely not being addressed.

If speaking of WD:

"Black" drives will run too hot, and have performance a TiVo can not, and will not, use (so, not recommended, at all). No mainstream, high-performance, drives are recommended. To be complete, the "Blue" line from WD, is also likely to run too-hot, and exceed the performance required (which isn't hard to do). Anything not "green" and/or low-RPM, could also stress the power supply, especially during spin-up.

"Red NAS" drives are acceptable, and AV-Rated. Plenty of success stories with these models, which combine reliability, performance, green, long warranty, and AV-Rating, all together. (by "performance", I don't mean high-performance, just very good, and more than TiVo even needs).

"Green" is the most used, and comes in both Green (non-AV), which will work (plenty of success stories to back this up), and AV-GP (Green, with AV-rating), the latter being what TiVo uses, and most here would recommend, unless they are Seagate fans.

Then the size was also part of the poster's question (the max): Unless you buy it pre-prepared, 3TB.
__________________
For Sale: 2TB WD20EURS AV-GP drives. 6 available, 4 new factory sealed w/warranty. Pre-imaged 2TB for Premiere 746320 & HD 652160 available, 2 lightly used w/warranty. Must sell! PM offers/questions.

Last edited by nooneuknow : 11-19-2013 at 10:57 PM.
nooneuknow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013, 10:28 PM   #1364
lpwcomp
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: John's Creek, Georgia
Posts: 4,370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tivogre View Post
So... If one were to buy a 4tb Weaknees drive, and a blank 4tb drive, what are the odds that a dd "clone" could result in two working 4tb drives?

It SHOULD work... Right?
Not necessarily. I'm thinking there is a possibility that the drive s/n is buried somewhere in the data on a configured drive and that it must match the actual s/n. Has anyone cloned a setup stock drive and tried the copy in the source machine?
__________________
James L. Sutherland
"You know TiVo users. Bunch of b****y little girls" TiVoAxe

"Jessica Fletcher visits Midsomer. Carnage ensues!"
lpwcomp is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013, 10:33 PM   #1365
nooneuknow
TiVo User Since 2007
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cox Cable Market, NV
Posts: 1,512
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tivogre View Post
So... If one were to buy a 4tb Weaknees drive, and a blank 4tb drive, what are the odds that a dd "clone" could result in two working 4tb drives?

It SHOULD work... Right?
Yes, it "should work".

But, before the swarm of agree bees descends upon you, I'll make the point that what you describe would be considered, by many, to be "theft".

Although, say I buy one, make a successful copy, use the copy, then never use the original I paid for, is that theft?

Have any of the many TiVo upgrade drive vendors, throughout history, put break-seals on the box, binding you to any agreement, or ever made you agree to terms of what you will do, or not do, with the drive, once you have completed the transaction?

So, technically, one could try what you describe, report the results, and not commit theft, just so long as they only use what they paid to have.
__________________
For Sale: 2TB WD20EURS AV-GP drives. 6 available, 4 new factory sealed w/warranty. Pre-imaged 2TB for Premiere 746320 & HD 652160 available, 2 lightly used w/warranty. Must sell! PM offers/questions.

Last edited by nooneuknow : 11-19-2013 at 10:54 PM.
nooneuknow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013, 10:36 PM   #1366
nooneuknow
TiVo User Since 2007
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cox Cable Market, NV
Posts: 1,512
Quote:
Originally Posted by lpwcomp View Post
Not necessarily. I'm thinking there is a possibility that the drive s/n is buried somewhere in the data on a configured drive and that it must match the actual s/n. Has anyone cloned a setup stock drive and tried the copy in the source machine?
I almost mentioned that exact possibility/scenario in my own response, but then took it out, thinking YOU'D disagree that would be possible. Too funny!

We were also typing at the same time, and you posted 1st.
__________________
For Sale: 2TB WD20EURS AV-GP drives. 6 available, 4 new factory sealed w/warranty. Pre-imaged 2TB for Premiere 746320 & HD 652160 available, 2 lightly used w/warranty. Must sell! PM offers/questions.
nooneuknow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013, 11:03 PM   #1367
lpwcomp
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: John's Creek, Georgia
Posts: 4,370
Quote:
Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
I almost mentioned that exact possibility/scenario in my own response, but then took it out, thinking YOU'D disagree that would be possible. Too funny!

We were also typing at the same time, and you posted 1st.
Yeah well, TiVo seems to be moving more and more into the Apple/"See figure 1" operating model.

Dontcha think it a bit ironic that you assumed something, considering the first post on this page of the thread?
__________________
James L. Sutherland
"You know TiVo users. Bunch of b****y little girls" TiVoAxe

"Jessica Fletcher visits Midsomer. Carnage ensues!"
lpwcomp is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013, 11:16 PM   #1368
nooneuknow
TiVo User Since 2007
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cox Cable Market, NV
Posts: 1,512
Quote:
Originally Posted by lpwcomp View Post
Yeah well, TiVo seems to be moving more and more into the Apple/"See figure 1" operating model.

Dontcha think it a bit ironic that you assumed something, considering the first post on this page of the thread?
I guess you saw this article:
http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2013-11/tivo-opera-tv/

You assumed I have the number of posts per page set to the same as you do!
__________________
For Sale: 2TB WD20EURS AV-GP drives. 6 available, 4 new factory sealed w/warranty. Pre-imaged 2TB for Premiere 746320 & HD 652160 available, 2 lightly used w/warranty. Must sell! PM offers/questions.
nooneuknow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013, 11:29 PM   #1369
headless chicken
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 206
Thanks for the comprehensive answer, nooneuknow.

TigerDirect had a flash sale on the WD Red a week ago or so but by the time I tried to pull the trigger they were all sold out.
headless chicken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2013, 10:07 AM   #1370
lpwcomp
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: John's Creek, Georgia
Posts: 4,370
Quote:
Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
As a matter of fact, no I had not seen that article

Quote:
Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
You assumed I have the number of posts per page set to the same as you do!
My bad.
__________________
James L. Sutherland
"You know TiVo users. Bunch of b****y little girls" TiVoAxe

"Jessica Fletcher visits Midsomer. Carnage ensues!"
lpwcomp is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2013, 11:57 AM   #1371
BobCamp1
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 970
Quote:
Originally Posted by lpwcomp View Post
Not necessarily. I'm thinking there is a possibility that the drive s/n is buried somewhere in the data on a configured drive and that it must match the actual s/n. Has anyone cloned a setup stock drive and tried the copy in the source machine?
Weakness can ship you a preconfigured drive for a Roamio without needing any information about your Tivo.

In the past, when swapping a hard drive from one Tivo to another (identical model), you just had to do a "clear and delete everything" to get it to work.
BobCamp1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2013, 02:47 PM   #1372
lpwcomp
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: John's Creek, Georgia
Posts: 4,370
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobCamp1 View Post
Weakness can ship you a preconfigured drive for a Roamio without needing any information about your Tivo.

In the past, when swapping a hard drive from one Tivo to another (identical model), you just had to do a "clear and delete everything" to get it to work.
So? It's the s/n of the NEW DRIVE that I am talking about. They don't need to know anything about your Roamio to get that.
__________________
James L. Sutherland
"You know TiVo users. Bunch of b****y little girls" TiVoAxe

"Jessica Fletcher visits Midsomer. Carnage ensues!"
lpwcomp is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2013, 03:50 PM   #1373
ggieseke
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 2,794
Quote:
Originally Posted by lpwcomp View Post
Has anyone cloned a setup stock drive and tried the copy in the source machine?
I have. It worked fine, but some recent threads seem to indicate that it may break your CableCARD pairing. My Pro doesn't have a card yet (or even cable) so I couldn't test that part.
ggieseke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2013, 04:01 PM   #1374
lpwcomp
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: John's Creek, Georgia
Posts: 4,370
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggieseke View Post
I have. It worked fine, but some recent threads seem to indicate that it may break your CableCARD pairing. My Pro doesn't have a card yet (or even cable) so I couldn't test that part.
If pairing is the only thing that is lost and settings, SPs, and, most importantly, recordings are maintained, I think most people can live with that. I know I could.
__________________
James L. Sutherland
"You know TiVo users. Bunch of b****y little girls" TiVoAxe

"Jessica Fletcher visits Midsomer. Carnage ensues!"
lpwcomp is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2013, 04:14 PM   #1375
jmpage2
Registered User
 
jmpage2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,862
Quote:
Originally Posted by lpwcomp View Post
So? It's the s/n of the NEW DRIVE that I am talking about. They don't need to know anything about your Roamio to get that.
I don't see how it needs the serial number of the drive to work unless it is writing it to the disk at time of installation (which seems like a very odd thing to do). Remember you can put a blank drive into the Roamio and it will format it and work fine.

The "TiVo is going the Apple route" comments are silly.... TiVo has just made it so you can pop in a replacement drive on your own and upgrade or replace the most likely part to fail, without jumping through hoops.. that's about as user friendly as upgrades get.
jmpage2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2013, 04:51 PM   #1376
Tivogre
Registered User
 
Tivogre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Springfield, VA
Posts: 1,203
Before going down the "is it stealing" route - does anyone know if Weaknees themselves has permission from TiVo to modify and redistribute their Tivo OS... or is the operation / demand just small enough that TiVo turns a blind eye?

If it's the later, it would be a tough argument for anyone to make that cloning the drive for ones personal use would be "stealing".

Now, buying one and setting up your own resale of cloned drives is starting to get into a gray area.
__________________
FIOS, Baby!!!
2x Tivo Roamio Pro,
5 x Tivo Mini
Samsung 72", 56", 4 x 32" HDTV
Sony 40" HDTV
iRule + iTach Remotes
Tivogre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2013, 05:52 PM   #1377
jmpage2
Registered User
 
jmpage2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tivogre View Post
Before going down the "is it stealing" route - does anyone know if Weaknees themselves has permission from TiVo to modify and redistribute their Tivo OS... or is the operation / demand just small enough that TiVo turns a blind eye?

If it's the later, it would be a tough argument for anyone to make that cloning the drive for ones personal use would be "stealing".

Now, buying one and setting up your own resale of cloned drives is starting to get into a gray area.
TiVo has been tolerant of Weaknees for years so I wouldn't expend too many cycles worrying about it.
jmpage2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2013, 07:03 PM   #1378
jmbach
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 566
The OS does not reside on the drive for the Roamios. There are small placeholder partitions where the OS normally resides on the drive. Only thing Weaknees can do is manipulate or add MFS partitions on the drive and make the appropriate mods the the main MFS application partition.
__________________
"Delay is preferable to error" - Thomas Jefferson
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Sir Isaac Newton
jmbach is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2013, 09:13 PM   #1379
lpwcomp
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: John's Creek, Georgia
Posts: 4,370
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
I don't see how it needs the serial number of the drive to work unless it is writing it to the disk at time of installation (which seems like a very odd thing to do). Remember you can put a blank drive into the Roamio and it will format it and work fine.

The "TiVo is going the Apple route" comments are silly.... TiVo has just made it so you can pop in a replacement drive on your own and upgrade or replace the most likely part to fail, without jumping through hoops.. that's about as user friendly as upgrades get.
You're going right past the point. There is a difference between putting a blank drive in and having the TiVo format it and putting a configured 4TB drive in. Remember yourself, the TiVo cannot handle an un-formatted 4TB drive. There is also a difference between that and being able to copy your existing drive to a larger drive and expanding. Can't yet do that on a Roamio and there is no guarantee that you will ever be able to do so.

Comparisons to Apple are perfectly valid. The ability to drop in a blank drive ( as long as you are willing to either void your warranty or lose everything) aside, each generation of TiVo has locked down things further than the previous one. And fairly recently they have taken to releasing buggy, insufficiently tested s/w.

I never said that they were writing the drive s/n to the drive during setup. I was just saying that it was a possibility so the poster to whom I was responding wouldn't buy a 4TB weaKnees drive with the assumption that it could be cloned and used to create multiple upgrade drives.

OTOH, if it is possible to do so, I don't consider it stealing. There is no intellectual(s/w) or physical(the drive) property that you are misappropriating.
__________________
James L. Sutherland
"You know TiVo users. Bunch of b****y little girls" TiVoAxe

"Jessica Fletcher visits Midsomer. Carnage ensues!"
lpwcomp is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2013, 09:23 PM   #1380
Marconi
TiVo Junkie
 
Marconi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Page, AZ USA
Posts: 432
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobCamp1 View Post
The Tivo can't prepare a blank 4 TB hard drive by itself. You have to connect the hard drive to a PC and use a special tool to prepare the drive for the Tivo. Once the drive has been prepared ahead of time, the Roamio can use it without major problems.

Weakness has developed such a tool, but no one else has developed a free version of this tool yet.
Well, there's always dd. No reason we can't clone a Weaknees drive over and over again. No special formatting s/w required. Slow? Yeah, the alternative is how much?
__________________
Roamio Plus, Four HDs, Two DTs, One S2. (Yeah, I have a TiVo 'problem.') Mac Nut too.
Marconi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump




Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVoŽ is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:00 AM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |