TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Roamio DVRs
TiVo Community
Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 89 votes, 4.94 average.
Old 09-07-2013, 04:54 PM   #1051
lessd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 6,064
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThreeSoFar View Post
Question for the group here: What do we think is happening in this case? Is the drive being entirely reformatted and loaded with the new Roamio OS? Or is the Roamio somehow able to use the Premiere OS load? I believe it must be the former.
I think the firmware built into the Roamio first looks for a matching TSN on the drive, not finding one it will re-format the drive, I am going to test out this theory with a 2nd Roamio I now have for a friend by putting the original formatted 1Tb drive that was in my first Roamio Plus into the 2nd Roamio and see what happens. If it works this way it saves the C&D all you had to do when you switched drives within the same model.
__________________
Les Daniels

_____________________________________________
3 Roamio Plus upgraded to 2Tb & 3Tb, and 2 Minis,
lessd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2013, 02:34 PM   #1052
cmeinck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 166
Any recommendations on hard drive for a 3TB upgrade? Looking at these WD drives:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...=ATVPDKIKX0DER

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Looks like Weakness no longer has a coupon code on Plus. Might have to go with Best Buy and the triple rewards points.
cmeinck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2013, 02:41 PM   #1053
TC25D
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 202
The first one - It has also been mentioned multiple times in this thread.
TC25D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2013, 02:48 PM   #1054
Am_I_Evil
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 140
i bought the AV 3TB drive new on eBay for $130 (but it now) w/free expedited shipping and no tax...just throwing out another option for people...
Am_I_Evil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2013, 03:22 PM   #1055
Surrealone
TiVoOnThEmInD
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 312
I'm doing the upgrade now I have a plus and I'm upgrading the drive to 3tb drive.
Will my season pass and CC pairing all be save on the Roamio flash or will I need to repair the CC and redo my SP?
Surrealone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2013, 03:35 PM   #1056
ggieseke
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surrealone View Post
I'm doing the upgrade now I have a plus and I'm upgrading the drive to 3tb drive.
Will my season pass and CC pairing all be save on the Roamio flash or will I need to repair the CC and redo my SP?
Nothing is saved on the flash. You will have to start off from ground zero again.
ggieseke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2013, 06:03 PM   #1057
Surrealone
TiVoOnThEmInD
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggieseke View Post
Nothing is saved on the flash. You will have to start off from ground zero again.
really thats odd seems like pairing is saved my CC card came right up my SP did not.
Surrealone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2013, 06:13 PM   #1058
keenanSR
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Santa Rosa CA
Posts: 414
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggieseke View Post
Nothing is saved on the flash. You will have to start off from ground zero again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surrealone View Post
really thats odd seems like pairing is saved my CC card came right up my SP did not.
Can you switch them over using the SP manager page at the TiVo website? As long as you haven't decommissioned your previous TiVo it might work.
keenanSR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2013, 06:32 PM   #1059
HarperVision
Registered User
 
HarperVision's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surrealone View Post

really thats odd seems like pairing is saved my CC card came right up my SP did not.
FAIK, the Host ID of the TiVo is on the main board of the TiVo, not the hard drive, and pairs to the cablecard ID. So swapping HDs "shouldn't" matter, but I know it's been mentioned here a few times that it doesn't seem to be the case.

FWIW, I took the paired cc out of my TiVo and put in my HDHR Prime to test something out and when I put it back into the TiVo afterwards it acted like I would have to go through cc setup again. It was very late last night so I went to bed. When I got up this AM it was all re-paired and good to go again though. Maybe when swapping HDs you can just try to wait a bit and let the headend re-pair with the card and see what happens? Has anyone left it sit for awhile after doing that?
__________________
Dave Harper
Director, Event Technology
ISF, CTS
HarperVision is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2013, 07:00 PM   #1060
Surrealone
TiVoOnThEmInD
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by keenanSR View Post
Can you switch them over using the SP manager page at the TiVo website? As long as you haven't decommissioned your previous TiVo it might work.
Ok this is what happend I unplugged my S3 and the SP was still on the tivo site plugged in my Roamio and bam was able to transfer my SP to the Roamio. So for mext trick I pulled the HDD out of my Roamio and installed the new drive (super easy) Setup was easy just had to do the guided setup after it was all done I went onto the Tivo site but my SP was blank.

Plan B
put drive back in Tivo sync with tivo site pull drive and replace 3TB drive that is setup already and see if I can just sync it back.

I think the guided setup is what zapped my SP.
I will have the magic answer in 30 min.
Surrealone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2013, 07:05 PM   #1061
morac
Cat God
 
morac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NJ
Posts: 6,605
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarperVision View Post

FAIK, the Host ID of the TiVo is on the main board of the TiVo, not the hard drive, and pairs to the cablecard ID. So swapping HDs "shouldn't" matter, but I know it's been mentioned here a few times that it doesn't seem to be the case.
For Motorola cards, there's three pairing numbers: host, card and data. All three are needed for pairing. The host is hard coded on the TiVo main board like you said. Likewise the card number is hard coded on the card. The data number is dynamically generated though and stored on the drive. I never understood the need for 3 numbers since you'd think the host and card numbers would be good enough, but that's what CableLabs/Motorola came up with.

Scientific Atlanta/Cisco cards only display the host and card numbers. I'm not sure if they lose pairing if the drive is swapped. I would think they wouldn't, since as you said those two numbers are static.

Last edited by morac : 09-08-2013 at 07:10 PM.
morac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2013, 11:47 PM   #1062
lessd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 6,064
Quote:
Originally Posted by morac View Post
For Motorola cards, there's three pairing numbers: host, card and data. All three are needed for pairing. The host is hard coded on the TiVo main board like you said. Likewise the card number is hard coded on the card. The data number is dynamically generated though and stored on the drive. I never understood the need for 3 numbers since you'd think the host and card numbers would be good enough, but that's what CableLabs/Motorola came up with.
The data number is dynamically generated and stored on the drive as you said but also stored on the cable card itself, it is not a fixed number on the cable card, that why if you remove the cable card from say TiVo 1 and install it in TiVo 2 then put it back into TiVo 1 the card will need to be re-paired as the data will have changed, at least this is what happens in Comcast land in CT. Because the data is different than the head end has, it will never self pair until you call Comcast.
__________________
Les Daniels

_____________________________________________
3 Roamio Plus upgraded to 2Tb & 3Tb, and 2 Minis,
lessd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 12:02 AM   #1063
MisterWho
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmeinck View Post
Any recommendations on hard drive for a 3TB upgrade? Looking at these WD drives:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...=ATVPDKIKX0DER

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Looks like Weakness no longer has a coupon code on Plus. Might have to go with Best Buy and the triple rewards points.
For what it's worth, I bought the second one (WD30EZRX) because it was what Staples had in stock and I had rewards to spend there.

I installed before ever plugging in the brand new Plus and it worked as expected. Have rebooted a few times and have had no problems (I did not run the wdidle3 thing).
MisterWho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 12:43 AM   #1064
morac
Cat God
 
morac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NJ
Posts: 6,605
Quote:
Originally Posted by lessd View Post

The data number is dynamically generated and stored on the drive as you said but also stored on the cable card itself, it is not a fixed number on the cable card, that why if you remove the cable card from say TiVo 1 and install it in TiVo 2 then put it back into TiVo 1 the card will need to be re-paired as the data will have changed, at least this is what happens in Comcast land in CT. Because the data is different than the head end has, it will never self pair until you call Comcast.
Not exactly. The host and card store each other's authentication keys as well as the generated shared private key. That's why inserting a card into a different device causes the card to become unpaired, because there's a mismatch of the host authentication key.

See chapters 3 and 8.3 in:

http://www.cablelabs.com/opencable/d...C01-050331.pdf


Actually I'm not sure what the generated Data ID is used for exactly since it's not in the CableLabs spec and only Motorola Cards have it. It's more or less unnecessary because 1024 bit encryption is used to exchange the keys between the host and card. It looks like Motorola was simply paranoid and added another check.
morac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 08:32 AM   #1065
jmbach
Registered User
 
jmbach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by morac View Post
Not exactly. The host and card store each other's authentication keys as well as the generated shared private key. That's why inserting a card into a different device causes the card to become unpaired, because there's a mismatch of the host authentication key.

See chapters 3 and 8.3 in:

http://www.cablelabs.com/opencable/d...C01-050331.pdf


Actually I'm not sure what the generated Data ID is used for exactly since it's not in the CableLabs spec and only Motorola Cards have it. It's more or less unnecessary because 1024 bit encryption is used to exchange the keys between the host and card. It looks like Motorola was simply paranoid and added another check.
I have Charter and the Data ID gets regenerated when I eject the card (Motorola M-Card) either with TiVo on and reinsert it or shut down the TiVo, eject the card, boot the TiVo and reinsert the card.

These trials were done with Charter Tech support during a troubleshooting call. Hardest part was to convince them that they needed to re pair the card. Which of course had to go to a higher level support.
__________________
"Delay is preferable to error" - Thomas Jefferson
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Sir Isaac Newton
jmbach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 09:07 AM   #1066
cr33p
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ann Arbor MI
Posts: 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmbach View Post
I have Charter and the Data ID gets regenerated when I eject the card (Motorola M-Card) either with TiVo on and reinsert it or shut down the TiVo, eject the card, boot the TiVo and reinsert the card.

These trials were done with Charter Tech support during a troubleshooting call. Hardest part was to convince them that they needed to re pair the card. Which of course had to go to a higher level support.
I have Comcast and my machine does the same as well, I had a paired card, inserted a different card, re inserted original paired card, and a new Data ID was generated.
cr33p is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 09:15 AM   #1067
HeatherA
Old AVS Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 854
A few pages back I posted a WD green drive from Microcenter that we were going to pick up. We put it in our new Roamio Basic and all is well. It's running wonderfully.

Knock on wood
__________________
-HeatherA

Roamio Basic 477HDHr TiVo Prem.4 237HDHr TiVo Prem.XL 157HDHr TiVo Prem. 192HDHrx2 TiVo Mini

Retired
TiVoS2DT 560hr HDVR2 104hr Phillips 14hr TiVoS2(40hr) DTiVo 69hr TiVoHD 21HDhr
HeatherA is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 09:36 AM   #1068
late for dinner
Past Expiration Date
 
late for dinner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Colorado Territories
Posts: 1,053
I quick thanks for the information provided here that helped me reuse a drive to upgrade my Roamio!
__________________
--Jeff--
late for dinner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 11:48 AM   #1069
lessd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 6,064
Quote:
Originally Posted by cr33p View Post
I have Comcast and my machine does the same as well, I had a paired card, inserted a different card, re inserted original paired card, and a new Data ID was generated.
You can remove a paired cable card and put it back in the same TiVo with or without power and it will remain paired, if you put the Cable card into any other cable card slot like another TiVo the pairing with the original TiVo will be lost, if you put another cable card into the original TiVo than put the original cable card back into the original TiVo the pairing will be lost.
The above is a Comcast system in CT using Moto cable cards: YMMV

You can retain the pairing only by making a bit by bit copy of your original drive, the SN of the drive does not matter.
__________________
Les Daniels

_____________________________________________
3 Roamio Plus upgraded to 2Tb & 3Tb, and 2 Minis,
lessd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 01:50 PM   #1070
HarperVision
Registered User
 
HarperVision's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,458
Quote:
Originally Posted by lessd View Post
The data number is dynamically generated and stored on the drive as you said but also stored on the cable card itself, it is not a fixed number on the cable card, that why if you remove the cable card from say TiVo 1 and install it in TiVo 2 then put it back into TiVo 1 the card will need to be re-paired as the data will have changed, at least this is what happens in Comcast land in CT. Because the data is different than the head end has, it will never self pair until you call Comcast.
It did for me with Oceanic Time Warner.
__________________
Dave Harper
Director, Event Technology
ISF, CTS
HarperVision is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 01:57 PM   #1071
cr33p
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ann Arbor MI
Posts: 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by lessd View Post
You can remove a paired cable card and put it back in the same TiVo with or without power and it will remain paired, if you put the Cable card into any other cable card slot like another TiVo the pairing with the original TiVo will be lost, if you put another cable card into the original TiVo than put the original cable card back into the original TiVo the pairing will be lost.
The above is a Comcast system in CT using Moto cable cards: YMMV

You can retain the pairing only by making a bit by bit copy of your original drive, the SN of the drive does not matter.
Funny thing though, no matter how many times I tried, I could not get any channels to tune moving my Cable Card from my XL4 into the Roamio, the card was already unpaired since it was originally in my Premiere, installed into the Xl4 and operating for 10 months that way. I had hoped to just swap them as well, but it did not work. Went through two cards before getting everything set up. Now that my Roamio is paired I realized how many channels where not coming through. LOL
cr33p is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 10:27 PM   #1072
lessd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 6,064
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarperVision View Post
It did for me with Oceanic Time Warner.
Each cable system is different, I only know Comcast in CT, I was not commenting on Time Warner or any other cable system.
__________________
Les Daniels

_____________________________________________
3 Roamio Plus upgraded to 2Tb & 3Tb, and 2 Minis,
lessd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2013, 07:18 AM   #1073
bob61
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 147
Did my install last night. Pulled cable card, Comcast,from my original TiVo and installed in new Roamio. Powered up, did setup and receiving channels with having to call Comcast. I don't have premium channels but have all other channels and all come through fine.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 4
bob61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2013, 07:45 AM   #1074
vurbano
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 425
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmeinck View Post
Any recommendations on hard drive for a 3TB upgrade? Looking at these WD drives:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...=ATVPDKIKX0DER

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Looks like Weakness no longer has a coupon code on Plus. Might have to go with Best Buy and the triple rewards points.
I use the first one in all my tivos. I use the second type in a 10TB software flexraid storage pool for storing ripped BD's and etc on my HTPC
__________________
1 - Roamio Plus with 3TB upgrade
2 - Tivo mini
vurbano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2013, 08:44 AM   #1075
Rkkeller
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,241
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterWho View Post
For what it's worth, I bought the second one (WD30EZRX) because it was what Staples had in stock and I had rewards to spend there.

I installed before ever plugging in the brand new Plus and it worked as expected. Have rebooted a few times and have had no problems (I did not run the wdidle3 thing).

That is the one I installed for a friend and he has had no problems. I didn't do anything either, just put it in.
Rkkeller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2013, 10:46 AM   #1076
bdspilot
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 82
Saw this on Weaknees today. Ipm guessing they are using a 4TB external. I wonder if I could replace the 500Mb drive n my current expander with a 4TB version.

Currently, we’ve got a 7 TB unit up and running. Not sure how soon we’ll have kits for it, but we’re pounding away at it to make sure it’s stable.
bdspilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2013, 10:52 AM   #1077
TC25D
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdspilot View Post
I wonder if I could replace the 500Mb drive n my current expander with a 4TB version.
Somewhere earlier in this thread someone did and it did not work.
TC25D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2013, 10:56 AM   #1078
bdspilot
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by TC25D View Post
Somewhere earlier in this thread someone did and it did not work.
Thanks for the heads up. Still interesting to see what Weaknees comes up with.
bdspilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2013, 11:19 AM   #1079
jmpage2
Registered User
 
jmpage2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,895
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdspilot View Post
Thanks for the heads up. Still interesting to see what Weaknees comes up with.
I would imagine that most people who want 7TB are wanting to archive tons and tons of shows on their TiVo for potential re-viewing years later.

Seems like a poor approach to me. Add an external esata drive to the TiVo and if EITHER drive has a problem you will lose all of those recordings. Better to offload them to a NAS or something similar of archiving is your thing.
jmpage2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2013, 12:56 PM   #1080
aaronwt
HD Addict
 
aaronwt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Northern VA(Woodbridge)
Posts: 14,293
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
I would imagine that most people who want 7TB are wanting to archive tons and tons of shows on their TiVo for potential re-viewing years later.

Seems like a poor approach to me. Add an external esata drive to the TiVo and if EITHER drive has a problem you will lose all of those recordings. Better to offload them to a NAS or something similar of archiving is your thing.
Yes a very poor approach at least until TiVo implements better management. I hit 50% on my Roamio Pro last night. The My Shows list is becoming extremely long and becoming a pain to manage. I couldn't imagine storing 7TB of content on the actual TiVo. That would be a pain to wade through. It's much easier to archive it on my TiVo Desktop. At least I have that option with all my channels except HBO and Cinemax.

When I had both of my Elites I had more content on each Elite than I i have on my Roamio Pro. But I had the Season Passes split between both boxes so I also had less folders on each one to wade through.

I'm just not accustomed to having to page down several times to watch something I recorded only a few days ago. At least it is fast browsing the My Shows List with the Roamio.
__________________
Roamio Pro
TiVo Mini x4
Roamio Basic OTA
40TB unRAID1--53TB unRAID2--36TB unRAID3
XBL/PSN: WormholeXtreme
aaronwt is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump




Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVo® is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:15 PM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |