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Old 08-27-2013, 04:50 PM   #661
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Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
This may have been answered already but this thread is long and I don't have time to read the whole thing...

If you go through the complete setup on two different drives can you swap them back and forth and retain all the settings specific to each drive? Or is the firmware in the TiVo paired specifically to one drive?
You could do that but the cable card would un-pair itself.
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Old 08-27-2013, 05:09 PM   #662
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You could do that but the cable card would un-pair itself.
Yeah, you would have to at least re-pair the first time. What might work, assuming the drives were identical is to set one up, including CableCARD pairing then copy the whole thing to the new drive before you install it.

Another interesting experiment would be to set up a stock drive on a Basic or Plus, copy the drive to a larger drive, install the new drive and see what happens.

Note: I am not asking nor even encouraging anyone to try either of these experiments since I am definitely not in the position to test myself and am not likely to be so positioned in the foreseeable future.
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Old 08-27-2013, 05:13 PM   #663
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4TB-1K is the maximum you can express in 32 bits using 1K blocks. So I'm guessing that's what TiVo is doing and is getting an overflow on 4TB drives.
Don't forget that most HD are measured in Tebibytes (TiB - base10 e.g. 4x10^12) not Terabytes (TB - base2 e.g. 4*1024^4). So the "4TB" HD is less than 2^32 1k blocks.

I suspect we're able to do this as someone figured out that it's much cheaper to buy unformated HDs and have the Tivo format it (rather than pay the HD manufacturer or someone internally to do it).
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Old 08-27-2013, 05:14 PM   #664
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If I took my 2TB EURS out of my Premiere and slapped it in a Roamio, what are the chances the Roamio would configure it properly AND retain the recordings?

Slim and none, right? And Slim probably just left town.
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Old 08-27-2013, 05:19 PM   #665
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Zero. The recordings are encrypted to the hardware they are recorded on. There is no way they would work in the new box.
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Old 08-27-2013, 05:23 PM   #666
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If I took my 2TB EURS out of my Premiere and slapped it in a Roamio, what are the chances the Roamio would configure it properly AND retain the recordings?

Slim and none, right? And Slim probably just left town.
You could not do that between the exact same models of TiVo, remember the C&D all to change drives.
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Old 08-27-2013, 05:24 PM   #667
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If I took my 2TB EURS out of my Premiere and slapped it in a Roamio, what are the chances the Roamio would configure it properly AND retain the recordings?

Slim and none, right? And Slim probably just left town.
Zilch, nada, bupkis. Why would you even ask? It's never been possible to do this even with like model TiVos and in this case, it is unlikely that that the drive formats are even similar.
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Old 08-27-2013, 05:29 PM   #668
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Zilch, nada, bupkis. Why would you even ask? It's never been possible to do this even with like model TiVos and in this case, it is unlikely that that the drive formats are even similar.
I would ask because I've only been using Tivo for about 8 months so I'm still a relative noob at this stuff. I was 98% sure of the answer but that nagging 2% prompted the question.
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Old 08-27-2013, 06:07 PM   #669
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The Seagtae drives do say they are good for 16 simultaneous HD streams while the WD drives say they are only good for 12.
I guess it might just come down to whichever drive is cheaper for TiVo at the time.
When the drive specs are specifying "streams" supported, they are specifying streams using the ATA streaming command extensions (AV) command set. This spec includes how many streams are supported both writing and reading concurrently.

If TiVo has stuck to tradition, and still reads/writes AV data as any old data, this spec still means NOTHING, when used in TiVo context. If TiVo has finally upped their game and started using the extensions (the part that makes an AV drive operate as an AV drive), then it could make a difference (and possibly even make using non-AV rated drives impossible).

I haven't seen anybody test a non-AV drive, yet, or they didn't say they did. Until that specific test is done, and made clear that is the test they have tried, and given it some hardcore usage, we just don't know yet.

As I'm sure you know, tests need to be replicated, before the results can start to be assumed as proof-positive. We've seen multiple upgrades with no issues, up to 3TB, so far, using AV drives. Unless I'm mistaken, we haven't seen a single non-AV drive upgrade yet, let alone any replication. Until we do, it's unknown if non-AV drives work at all, or will work under maximum load, reliably.

If they did make the switch to true AV streaming, but left the door open to still use a non-AV drive, I'd expect it to be a "fallback" means. It would take some time to let the drive fill, then fragment, to see if performance/reliability gets affected...
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Last edited by nooneuknow : 08-27-2013 at 07:24 PM. Reason: better context
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Old 08-27-2013, 06:13 PM   #670
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got my TiVo today but no drive yet (damn you eBay and your estimates)...so setting up the box now and will transfer any recordings to my now cablecard less premiere and then perform the upgrade either tomorrow or Thursday hopefully when i get the 3TB drive (i hope i get it then)...
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Old 08-27-2013, 06:17 PM   #671
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I'd be shocked if they used anything but standard I/O, but I was shocked at how many improvements the Roamio included. I think it's still anyone's guess at this point.
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Old 08-27-2013, 06:26 PM   #672
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When the drive specs are specifying "streams" supported, they are specifying streams using the ATA streaming command extensions (AV) command set. This spec includes how many streams are supported both writing and reading concurrently.

If TiVo has stuck to tradition, and still reads/writes AV data as any old data, this spec still means NOTHING, when used in TiVo context. If TiVo has finally upped their game and started using the extensions (the part that makes an AV drive operate as an AV drive), then it could make a difference (and possibly even make using non-AV rated drives impossible).

I haven't seen anybody test a non-AV drive, yet, or they didn't say they did. Until that specific test is done, and made clear that is the test they have tried, and given it some hardcore usage, we just don't know yet.

As I'm sure you know, tests need to be replicated, before the results can start to be assumed as proof-positive. We've seen multiple upgrades with no issues, up to 3TB, so far, using AV drives. Unless I'm mistaken, we haven't seen a single non-AV drive upgrade yet, let alone any replication. Until we do, it's unknown if non-AV drives work at all, or will work under maximum load, reliably.

While they may have left the door open to use a non-AV drive, I'd expect it to be a "fallback" means. It would take some time to let the drive fill, then fragment, to see if performance/reliability gets affected...
I thought one or two people posted that they put in a non AV 2TB drive?
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Old 08-27-2013, 06:28 PM   #673
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I thought one or two people posted that they put in a non AV 2TB drive?
If you could find the posts and post the links, I'll be happy to concede that I was wrong. I thought I was paying close enough attention that I would spot them, since I've been primarily focusing on this thread and watching closely for such a thing...
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Old 08-27-2013, 06:35 PM   #674
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If you could find the posts and post the links, I'll be happy to concede that I was wrong. I thought I was paying close enough attention that I would spot them, since I've been primarily focusing on this thread and watching closely for such a thing...
It could have been a different thread. The last week has been crazy reading this forum with posts coming at a very fast pace. I don't even think I've ever seen so many posts in such a short period of time on this forum. It's been hard to keep up.
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Old 08-27-2013, 06:48 PM   #675
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It could have been a different thread. The last week has been crazy reading this forum with posts coming at a very fast pace. I don't even think I've ever seen so many posts in such a short period of time on this forum. It's been hard to keep up.
That's VERY true. No argument from me, at all. I have NEVER seen such a fragmented subject matter, as to the extremes the Roamio has created here (the users/speculators/spectators, not the Roamio).
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Old 08-27-2013, 07:24 PM   #676
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Received my 3TB WD AV drive, and everything was pretty straight forward. Put the drive in, and Roamio will automatically get the setup going. I lost my premium channels (HBO HD) from my cablecard (but regular channles were still working), so I had to call Comcast to repair the card. Otherwise everything went as expected. Very easy process.
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Old 08-27-2013, 09:20 PM   #677
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Received my 3TB WD AV drive, and everything was pretty straight forward. Put the drive in, and Roamio will automatically get the setup going. I lost my premium channels (HBO HD) from my cablecard (but regular channles were still working), so I had to call Comcast to repair the card. Otherwise everything went as expected. Very easy process.
How many HD hours with the 3TB?

Is it really this easy? Plop in a new drive and turn it on?
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Old 08-27-2013, 09:29 PM   #678
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How many HD hours with the 3TB?

Is it really this easy? Plop in a new drive and turn it on?
From what I have been reading - yes. It is that easy. Almost too good to be true
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Old 08-27-2013, 09:30 PM   #679
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From what I have been reading - yes. It is that easy. Almost too good to be true
Me too...I want to hear it from someone who DID it.
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Old 08-27-2013, 09:35 PM   #680
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Me too...I want to hear it from someone who DID it.
have you not been reading? multiple people have done it...
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Old 08-27-2013, 09:40 PM   #681
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I did it today.

Opened the box from Tivo.

4 screws to get the cover off.

Unplug the drive.

4 screws to take the drive out.

4 screws to take the side rails off the old drive.

Put the side rails on the new drive, screw the drive into the chassis, plug it in and button up the cover.

Hook it up, go through guided setup, reboot a few times, boom. Working Tivo.
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Old 08-27-2013, 09:42 PM   #682
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Received my 3TB WD AV drive, and everything was pretty straight forward. Put the drive in, and Roamio will automatically get the setup going. I lost my premium channels (HBO HD) from my cablecard (but regular channles were still working), so I had to call Comcast to repair the card. Otherwise everything went as expected. Very easy process.
Just got done doing the same thing. Very easy to do. Everything seems to be working, so far.

Showing 477 HD hours capacity. No cable. Using it for OTA only.
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Old 08-27-2013, 09:56 PM   #683
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have you not been reading? multiple people have done it...
Honestly...no. I skipped to the end.
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Old 08-27-2013, 11:40 PM   #684
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Yeah, it's that easy. Just pop in a new drive, as long as it's 3TB or less. When I tried 4TB last night it did not work. With the 3TB everything's automatic, put it in and you're good to go.
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Old 08-27-2013, 11:56 PM   #685
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Okay, so here is everything you need to upgrade your Roamio:

1. 3TB Drive (I recommend the WD AV-GP drive, the 1TB drive inside my Roamio Plus is also this exact drive), the 3TB drive is currently $137.99 on Amazon, shipping included.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004W9BKE0/

2. T10 Torx screwdriver - I tinker with computers quite a bit, and I've tried all kinds of precision screwdriver kits. Most of them are crap, but not this one. This is the absolute best. Maxtech 16521MX precision bit set. $10.66 on Amazon shipped.
http://www.amazon.com/Maxtech-16521M...dp/B000MF754W/

Tada! This is all you need to upgrade your Roamio to 3TB. You will end up with an extra 500GB/1TB drive, so maybe you can get something like this as well:
http://www.amazon.com/Plugable-Docki...dp/B003UI62AG/
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Old 08-28-2013, 03:04 AM   #686
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2. T10 Torx screwdriver - I tinker with computers quite a bit, and I've tried all kinds of precision screwdriver kits. Most of them are crap, but not this one. This is the absolute best. Maxtech 16521MX precision bit set. $10.66 on Amazon shipped.
http://www.amazon.com/Maxtech-16521M...dp/B000MF754W/
On a Roamio Basic, you also need a T8 Torx to remove the 2 screws that hold the cover on.
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Old 08-28-2013, 03:06 AM   #687
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On a Roamio Basic, you also need a T8 Torx to remove the 2 screws that hold the cover on.
Actually only one of the 2 screws (T8) - the other and the internal screws are all T10 (just replaced drive today).
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Old 08-28-2013, 03:10 AM   #688
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Actually only one of the 2 screws (T8) - the other and the internal screws are all T10 (just replaced drive today).
I replaced the drive in my Roamio last night. Both screws at the top of the back of the unit are, actually, T8.

See picture in post #144.
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Old 08-28-2013, 03:27 AM   #689
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I replaced the drive in my Roamio last night. Both screws at the top of the back of the unit are, actually, T8.

See picture in post #144.
Bizarre... one screw was a T10 for sure (shorter too) - maybe there's some discrepancy in base model shells?

Anyhoo - like you said bottom line need a T8 as well.
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Old 08-28-2013, 05:19 AM   #690
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Bizarre... one screw was a T10 for sure (shorter too) - maybe there's some discrepancy in base model shells?

Anyhoo - like you said bottom line need a T8 as well.
I agree - the 2 screws that hold the top on were different lengths, too, but on mine, the T8 worked on both.
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