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Old 08-23-2013, 11:32 PM   #481
amseven11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeInDallas View Post
Yes it is. You will get to the main screen, and see HDD and hit that, then wiping, and then you will see Copywipe. Once the program boots up you will see BIOS drives, and then like youre going to wipe it, and then hit F6 for the drive to display partitions, then just ESC back out of it all after you take a pic, if you need to.

Yes that is a bootable CD.
Thank you, downloading now.
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Old 08-23-2013, 11:33 PM   #482
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I guess it's been many many years since I've used Partition Magic. I could very well see that it might not recognize the file system but recognizing disk partitions is much more basic than that. Maybe they've switched over to a Guid partition structure like Apple?

Just throwing out possibilities here....
I've seen it both ways:

1. Says there is no partition.

2. Says there is a partition, but it isn't recognized as any known type.
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Old 08-23-2013, 11:37 PM   #483
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<snip>The author of DVRBARS is fully interested in a drive backup, EVEN IF THE DRIVE SEEMS TO BE EMPTY, as well as the same drive, after it has been booted and set-up.
I agree that it is still worthwhile trying doing a DVRBars on both drives. This is just odd.

If the drive layout is being stored in flash memory, it would definitely make it less likely that it will be possible to upgrade a "used" system and preserve the recordings. I am tempted to say that it makes it extremely unlikely.

It may be possible to replace a failing drive by copying it to a drive with the exact same geometry but who knows. I am not hopeful
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Old 08-23-2013, 11:46 PM   #484
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Only the download links work, you other two links are bad.
Odd, they worked before. Thanks for pointing that out. I'll figure it out, then edit the posts.
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Old 08-23-2013, 11:51 PM   #485
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It may be possible to replace a failing drive by copying it to a drive with the exact same geometry but who knows. I am not hopeful
Does copying an expander drive and replacing it work or does it check the drive serial number? If it doesn't work, I doubt copying the internal drive will work either. If it does, then copying the internal drive might work.

If I had to guess on how the Roamio is set up, it's probably based on the Mini design, with the software, settings and meta data stored on a flash drive. The difference being in the Roamio there's a hard drive to store recordings.
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Old 08-23-2013, 11:52 PM   #486
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Thank you, downloading now.
I tried this but it didnt work, I selected the drive and when I did it came back with a error saying "NO USEABLE HARD DRIVES FOUND" even though it was listed.
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Old 08-23-2013, 11:53 PM   #487
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Dvr Backup And Restore Software for Windows (DvrBARS)

I deleted the prior posts with the bad links and here's the corrected version:

Here's the thread for DVRBARS:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=503261

Here's the download link:

http://goo.gl/AbXwr

Here's the author:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...r.php?u=207112

PM him about how to get the image uploaded to him. I asked him to invite me to open a free Dropbox account (which is 2GB), and because it was by referral, by accepting the invite it got us each a bonus 500MB, for a total of 2.5GB. I was able to fit two 2TB full backups in that space, with plenty to spare, because the already small images zip compress down well.

For the drive you will be doing this with, the "after installation" image size will get bigger and bigger if you let it run beyond the required setup. So, once you've tackled the "before", you might want to take this into consideration for the "after" backup image.

Thank you for all that you have contributed, and continue to contribute. It is appreciated.
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Old 08-23-2013, 11:54 PM   #488
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Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
I deleted the prior posts with the bad links and here's the corrected version:

Here's the thread for DVRBARS:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=503261

Here's the download link:

http://goo.gl/AbXwr

Here's the author:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...r.php?u=207112

PM him about how to get the image uploaded to him. I asked him to invite me to open a free Dropbox account (which is 2GB), and because it was by referral, by accepting the invite it got us each a bonus 500MB, for a total of 2.5GB. I was able to fit two 2TB full backups in that space, with plenty to spare, because the already small images zip compress down well.

For the drive you will be doing this with, the "after installation" image size will get bigger and bigger if you let it run beyond the required setup. So, once you've tackled the "before", you might want to take this into consideration for the "after" backup image.

Thank you for all that you have contributed, and continue to contribute. It is appreciated.
ok wil do. And use the hard drive that was never setup correct?
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Old 08-23-2013, 11:58 PM   #489
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I tried this but it didnt work, I selected the drive and when I did it came back with a error saying "NO USEABLE HARD DRIVES FOUND" even though it was listed.
Thats really weird. I went in the other room and looked at one of my Premiere drives that is the original drive I have stored away, and it shows all the partitions, just to make sure I was telling you right, and it showed them all. I havent run into this before, very odd.

Well thank you for trying.
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Old 08-24-2013, 12:00 AM   #490
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ok wil do. And use the hard drive that was never setup correct?
It would probably help to have both as a comparison.
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Old 08-24-2013, 12:06 AM   #491
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ok wil do. And use the hard drive that was never setup correct?
Yes, that's the "before" drive for a before & after comparison.

Plus, just in case it's not blank, you will have a backup of it.

The author should be able to make a definitive determination, once he gets a copy and has time to pour over the results.
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Last edited by nooneuknow : 08-24-2013 at 12:10 AM. Reason: changed "will" to "should"
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Old 08-24-2013, 12:09 AM   #492
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Would Partition Magic see the TiVo Partitions?
As a general rule no unless TiVo changed their partition structure. Since all the tools used so far cannot see the partition structure, I suspect TiVo may still use an APM like partition layout. Can try using pdisk on the MFS live CD . If it reads it then it is an APM like layout. The only definite way to read it would be using some hex editor tool like HxD or iBored. DvrBars full backup mode will copy the whole structure to a vhd file which then can be examined without worry of damaging a good image.
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Old 08-24-2013, 12:13 AM   #493
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Why is everybody pushing for use of tools, that when used by somebody unfamiliar with them, could nuke the whole darn thing?

DVRBARS running within Windows can BACK UP the drive.

Then it is safe to fiddle away with tools that have strong potential for corrupting the disk.

If a backup is made, FIRST, then there is a backup ready to quickly restore the drive to as it was.

This push is just reckless disregard for safety, in the name of impatience!

For those who don't know already, DVRBARS takes very little time to backup a TiVo drive that has never been booted, and compresses down to sizes that can fit on small USB thumbdrives. It's also fast on a booted drive, but the size of the backup increases, as more data on the drive is changed and written to it.
I sort of agree with here, but to be perfectly safe he shouldn't even be hooking them up to a PC. Until he or someone else verifies that everything works and he can at least record something (ideally filling up the disk) with no problems, he should put them away just in case.

You do realize that you are exhibiting at least as much impatience as anyone else? It's just that your particular priority is DVRBars.
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Old 08-24-2013, 12:14 AM   #494
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As a general rule no unless TiVo changed their partition structure. Since all the tools used so far cannot see the partition structure, I suspect TiVo may still use an APM like partition layout. Can try using pdisk on the MFS live CD . If it reads it then it is an APM like layout. The only definite way to read it would be using some hex editor tool like HxD or iBored. DvrBars full backup mode will copy the whole structure to a vhd file which then can be examined without worry of damaging a good image.
THANK YOU, for posting something that actually helps corroborate what I've been trying to communicate for two days now.
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Old 08-24-2013, 12:19 AM   #495
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I sort of agree with here, but to be perfectly safe he shouldn't even be hooking them up to a PC. Until he or someone else verifies that everything works and he can at least record something (ideally filling up the disk) with no problems, he should put them away just in case.

You do realize that you are exhibiting at least as much impatience as anyone else? It's just that your particular priority is DVRBars.
If you go a few pages back, and work forward, you'll find repeated instances of me saying that the owner will benefit, as the first thing to come out of using DVRBARS in Full Backup mode, is a Back Up copy for them.

It's only when it comes to getting it to the author to analyze that it is of any other benefit, to anybody.
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Old 08-24-2013, 12:20 AM   #496
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Thats really weird. I went in the other room and looked at one of my Premiere drives that is the original drive I have stored away, and it shows all the partitions, just to make sure I was telling you right, and it showed them all. I havent run into this before, very odd.

Well thank you for trying.
Is that 2 tuner model premiere or a 4 tuner model. The 4 tuner models have a modified APM with data found in areas that are normally reserved sections of each APM partition entry. Just speculating, but if Tivo carried that change through to the Roamio and because of the change, that program won't read a nonstandard APM entry, then that might explain the error....... or not.
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Old 08-24-2013, 12:37 AM   #497
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Is that 2 tuner model premiere or a 4 tuner model. The 4 tuner models have a modified APM with data found in areas that are normally reserved sections of each APM partition entry. Just speculating, but if Tivo carried that change through to the Roamio and because of the change, that program won't read a nonstandard APM entry, then that might explain the error....... or not.
It was a 2 tuner Premiere that I dont have in service anymore. I just unplugged it and havent messed with it, and the original drive I havent put back in it yet, so I thought I would take a look at it.

The 320GB model.
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Old 08-24-2013, 01:00 AM   #498
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If you go a few pages back, and work forward, you'll find repeated instances of me saying that the owner will benefit, as the first thing to come out of using DVRBARS in Full Backup mode, is a Back Up copy for them.

It's only when it comes to getting it to the author to analyze that it is of any other benefit, to anybody.
Ok, I can see that, and I concede that backing them up should have come first if he was going to proceed with the analysis, but you'll have to admit that the safest thing (besides never doing the R&R) is to put them aside until more is known about the upgrade.
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Old 08-24-2013, 01:10 AM   #499
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Ok, I can see that, and I concede that backing them up should have come first if he was going to proceed with the analysis, but you'll have to admit that the safest thing (besides never doing the R&R) is to put them aside until more is known about the upgrade.
I'll admit that, only with the addition that the SAFEST thing is not to even mess around with it at all (there's risk from the moment you open the case).

Now that he knows the risks, it's up to him. He's already poked and prodded with other tools, so that cat is kinda out of the bag already...

This is a catch-22, where you can say it's safest to know more first, but if everybody did that, what would we ever know...
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Old 08-24-2013, 01:51 AM   #500
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I am interested to see if the CableCARD pairing is also stored in the Flash memory, making drive swaps that much easier.
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Old 08-24-2013, 01:54 AM   #501
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Unless you live in my Cox market. Somehow, they've made it where only the last drive paired works. I've tried drive after drive, in multiple TiVos, reproducing the result. Every time I pair, and all works, I cloned the drive to an identical drive, then installed, to find pairing had to be repeated.

I get jumped every time I state this... But, it seems the cablecard knows the drive S/N has changed, and nulls out the pairing. I don't know exactly HOW it can know, I after 20+ attempts, I feel the results show it is the case.

I didn't have this problem until the second-to-last time the cards received updated firmware.
I have upgraded a few Premieres, using JMFS-Live and they all retained the CableCARD pairing.

Note: I have not done this since Cox AZ upgraded the CC firmware to the latest, PKEY1.5.3_F.p.0601
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Old 08-24-2013, 01:54 AM   #502
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I'll admit that, only with the addition that the SAFEST thing is not to even mess around with it at all (there's risk from the moment you open the case).
That's what I meant by "(besides never doing the R&R)" R&R = Remove & Replace [the drive].

Quote:
Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
Now that he knows the risks, it's up to him. He's already poked and prodded with other tools, so that cat is kinda out of the bag already...
True that.

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This is a catch-22, where you can say it's safest to know more first, but if everybody did that, what would we ever know...
What I meant by that was until it is known if the upgrade is going to work with no problems. IOW, keep your best line of retreat open in case it is needed. At this point, we don't know for sure that a drive restored using DVRBars will work. Highly probable -yes. Certain- no. May not even be necessary. Worth the risk - eh, not my call. Not sure what I would do in the same position.
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Old 08-24-2013, 02:00 AM   #503
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Important Note for amseven11:

Important Note for amseven11:

When you connect ANY TiVo drive to a Windows PC, if ANY prompts come up that ask if you want to initialize the disk, or otherwise do something to/with it, JUST SAY NO.

If you let Windows "initialize" the disk, you'll nuke it. Even allowing Windows Disk Manager to start has been reported to corrupt TiVo drives. Some even say that you shouldn't boot with the drive attached, but instead wait for the PC to boot, and then connect the drive using a hot-plug capable method.

Why does Windows ask? Because it doesn't recognize the partitioning of the disk as any valid format, and ASSUMES it is just some new disk that you want to add to the system. Initializing it writes a Windows signature into the disk, overwriting anything TiVo that already exists in the space that signature adds.

If you are wondering how then DVRBARS can be of any use, it is due to it being made to run in Windows, and properly access the drive.
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Last edited by nooneuknow : 08-24-2013 at 02:25 AM.
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Old 08-24-2013, 02:08 AM   #504
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That's what I meant by "(besides never doing the R&R)" R&R = Remove & Replace [the drive].

True that.

What I meant by that was until it is known if the upgrade is going to work with no problems. IOW, keep your best line of retreat open in case it is needed. At this point, we don't know for sure that a drive restored using DVRBars will work. Highly probable -yes. Certain- no. May not even be necessary. Worth the risk - eh, not my call. Not sure what I would do in the same position.
According to the author of DVRBARS, the Full Backup method is a true raw sector-by-sector backup, which doesn't mess with the drive, and doesn't care what is on it, or not on it. I've been in near constant contact with him since the product's launch (and had been trying to help out before then). He does have a volunteer, but they don't have their new Roamio, yet (or last I knew of).

Again, the only way we can know a DVRBARS backup will restore properly, is by trying it. If nobody ever tries it, nobody will ever know.

So, it's still a catch-22 scenario. Risks -versus- rewards (and/or the excitement of the experiment).
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Old 08-24-2013, 02:12 AM   #505
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When you connect ANY TiVo drive to a Windows PC, if ANY prompts come up that ask if you want to initialize the disk, or otherwise do something to/with it, JUST SAY NO.
As another Mac/Unix/linux fan that is my general answer to anything Windows.
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Old 08-24-2013, 04:35 AM   #506
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Funny, that I got accused of being impatient, not that long ago, just because I suggested a few things to try with the upgrade drive installed, while the original was still factory-fresh...
You were not accused of being impatient. You were accused of being rude and ungrateful, which you were and for which you said you apologized.

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Old 08-24-2013, 05:13 AM   #507
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If the I will say the encryption stuff was stored on the flash would there be anyway ito copy it from the flash,on the same line of lame man knowledge... If you have a ESATA [no marriage,flash encrypted]drive connected could that be used has a backup for a internal and the flash would use it's key to allow it to be associated to the new drive.
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Old 08-24-2013, 06:15 AM   #508
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Hey guys I will work again on making backups of the drives I got side tracked with a problem of my own. If anyone knows about pyTivoX could you take a look at my thread here: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...48#post9783348

Any help would be appreciated. Other wise will do full back up and upload them Saturday night nooneuknow.
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Old 08-24-2013, 07:36 AM   #509
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Power supply

Can the roamio power supply be replaced with a larger one to eliminate the worry about the power use of a 3tb hdd in a base roamio?
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Old 08-24-2013, 08:02 AM   #510
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Can the roamio power supply be replaced with a larger one to eliminate the worry about the power use of a 3tb hdd in a base roamio?
I'm not worried about the power requirements, but more the additional heat generated. I was going to do a 3TB upgrade, but decided to go with 2TB instead because I don't want to risk the heat from the 3TB frying anything.
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