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Old 09-06-2013, 04:33 PM   #841
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Does the 4 tuner OTA combine with cable in one guide for recording both?
I don't see the input for both OTA & Cable like it had been on earlier models.
No, it's either or
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Old 09-06-2013, 04:37 PM   #842
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If they really want to be the "complete" box then they need to support more popular html5 video formats such as ogg and webm since right now it's still just mp4/h264/aac via the built in Opera browser. I'm guessing that would require a hardware update?
They also need to fix not being able to use Stream with H.264 channels which may require H264 decoding hardware as part of the Stream?
I think VP8 decoding might require new hardware, but it might also be doable via a firmware update. From my understanding it's very similar to H.264 so Broadcom might be able to update the firmware on the chip in the TiVo to add VP8 decoding, if it doesn't already support it.

The chip in the Stream has an H.264 decoder already, so that is likely a software issue. I expect it will be fixed soon since more and more cable companies are starting to add H.264 channels.
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Old 09-06-2013, 04:37 PM   #843
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We sort of discussed this in another thread, but I'm not sure where TiVo could go from here. Every previous generation TiVo had some deficit that we hoped would be fixed, or some feature we hoped would be added, in the next generation. But with the Roamio I can't think of any feature I'd want/need that couldn't be added via software.

The Roamio Pro has 6 tuners (max for CableCARD), 3TB hard drive (500 hours of HD), a built in transcoder and all major networking technologies. (Gigabit Ethernet, MoCa and dual band wifi) As far as hardware goes I can't think of anything that's missing so I'm wondering what a Series 6 could possible offer that we'd want. Seems like everything I can think of that I'd want is all software.

I guess maybe they could do a 6 tuner with OTA support. Or maybe a unit that uses something other then CableCARD if that Charter alternative comes to fruition. But even so those would likely be minor variations of the current hardware.

What do you think? Do you have some hardware feature in mind that you'd want included in a Series 6?
I pretty much agree, but who knows what's coming. Maybe HDMI 2.0, 4K support, support for whatever is coming after MPEG 4, 6 OTA tuners, support for OTA & Cable together. But honestly for OTA my new Roamio is amazing and software updates should be able to keep it cutting edge for years to come.
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Old 09-06-2013, 04:38 PM   #844
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Does the 4 tuner OTA combine with cable in one guide for recording both?
I don't see the input for both OTA & Cable like it had been on earlier models.
No, it's either cable, or antenna. Not both.
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Old 09-06-2013, 04:44 PM   #845
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Maybe HDMI 2.0, 4K support, support for whatever is coming after MPEG 4
These are all sort of one in the same. HDMI 2.0 is only needed for 4K, and the next codec after MPEG-4 is H.265 aka HEVC and will only be used for 4K. And I seriously doubt there will be any real demand for 4K within the next 3-4 years. I'm betting we're still 5+ years away from real deployment of 4K in broadcast.

I could see them maybe doing a 6 tuner OTA or OTA+Cable box, but I don't think that would warrant a whole new series. In the past they haven't changed the series unless they upgraded the main CPU. That wouldn't be necessary just to add more OTA tuners.

I'm sure we'll find some shortcomings over the next few years that we'll wish for in the S6, but at this point I just don't see it. The Roamio is the most complete TiVo, hardware wise, that has ever existed.
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Old 09-06-2013, 04:56 PM   #846
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One reason to iterate the hardware might be to provide a more robust app. platform if it does take off.

Wouldn't it be awesome if something like Plex or XBMC was ported to this?

But Tivo may try to stay in the good graces of the content companies and disallow any app. to facilitate the viewing of "unauthorized" content -- could be pirated content or could be content that you converted from another format, like from optical media to digital.
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Old 09-06-2013, 05:08 PM   #847
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One reason to iterate the hardware might be to provide a more robust app. platform if it does take off.
The apps platform is HTML5, which is where most of the industry is going. I saw a post on the Plex forurm where someone was already working on porting Plex to HTML5 for Boxee, so if that get's finished then it should be relatively easy to submit it to the Opera TV Store and have it end up on TiVo. Other major services like Amazon and VUDU already have HTML5 implementations, so they should be easy to port over as well. I don't know what other apps platform they could adopt that would be better.

I guess they could upgrade with a faster CPU and better GPU for fancier apps, but no one is really going to want to play Angry Birds using their TiVo remote anyway so that's probably unnecessary.
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Old 09-06-2013, 05:23 PM   #848
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The next iteration will be consolidating/miniaturizing -- more functionality combined into a single chipset, fewer things to populate on the motherboard, lower parts costs, et. al.
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Old 09-06-2013, 05:38 PM   #849
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I could see that. The Stream part is definitely tacked on right now (uses it's own IP address) so I could see better integration there. But that wouldn't really give us current Roamio users incentive to upgrade. Unless of course they purposely withheld software features.
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Old 09-06-2013, 07:58 PM   #850
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The apps platform is HTML5, which is where most of the industry is going. I saw a post on the Plex forurm where someone was already working on porting Plex to HTML5 for Boxee, so if that get's finished then it should be relatively easy to submit it to the Opera TV Store and have it end up on TiVo. Other major services like Amazon and VUDU already have HTML5 implementations, so they should be easy to port over as well. I don't know what other apps platform they could adopt that would be better.

I guess they could upgrade with a faster CPU and better GPU for fancier apps, but no one is really going to want to play Angry Birds using their TiVo remote anyway so that's probably unnecessary.
That's what I meant, more beefy SOCs with more integrated RAM.

My understanding is there's a range of performance of things like Netflix on say a tablet vs. Apple TV vs. smart TV vs. a smart Blu-Ray player, etc.

Because of differences in the processors, probably resources like RAM and hardware decoding, etc.
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Old 09-06-2013, 08:07 PM   #851
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I agree they'll probably beef up the hardware eventually. But if the current hardware still works good, and there are no other compelling features, then most people wont be compelled to upgrade.

See I've been on this forum for many years. Way back in the S3 days we talked about how cool it would be to have a built in transcoder for transferring to portable devices and streaming like a Slingbox. We also talked about how cool it would be to have more tuners and giant hard drives. It seems with the Roamio all of our hardware related wishes have been granted, so I'm not sure where we go from here. There are still a TON of software features I'd like to see, so I'm hoping that now that they have the hardware specs of our dreams they can focus on software and get us all those features we've been asking for for so long.
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Old 09-06-2013, 08:29 PM   #852
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Hmm, if Tivo depends on continuing to sell hardware, they could be in trouble. The cable and satellite companies are improving their products so it'll be harder for Tivo to attract sales from the mass market.

Comcast is touting a cloud DVR. Sounds like they'd store your recordings in the cloud and stream it to clients, both living room and mobile. They wouldn't need tuners or a lot of local storage in that case. They might not really record so much as tag content you want to record for your locker and then indicate that you can view that content as long as you're a subscriber.

Yeah the Roamio may be the end of the traditional DVR, at least the traditional 3rd-party DVR.

Unless the cable companies scrap Cable Card and come out with something else.
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Old 09-06-2013, 08:32 PM   #853
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We sort of discussed this in another thread, but I'm not sure where TiVo could go from here. Every previous generation TiVo had some deficit that we hoped would be fixed, or some feature we hoped would be added, in the next generation. But with the Roamio I can't think of any feature I'd want/need that couldn't be added via software.

The Roamio Pro has 6 tuners (max for CableCARD), 3TB hard drive (500 hours of HD), a built in transcoder and all major networking technologies. (Gigabit Ethernet, MoCa and dual band wifi) As far as hardware goes I can't think of anything that's missing so I'm wondering what a Series 6 could possible offer that we'd want. Seems like everything I can think of that I'd want is all software.

I guess maybe they could do a 6 tuner with OTA support. Or maybe a unit that uses something other then CableCARD if that Charter alternative comes to fruition. But even so those would likely be minor variations of the current hardware.

What do you think? Do you have some hardware feature in mind that you'd want included in a Series 6?
Have to wait and see what tech crops up in the meantime. Were Slingboxes around when Premieres were new? The answer to that may not exist yet.

Also with all the stuff that has been added, the Premieres have gotten pretty slow. Over time, it wouldn't surprise me if the Roamio box set slow with new things we don't know about yet.

A Series 6 would probably be a more powerful footprint, larger HD's, etc, etc. True "new stuff" is harder to say right now. Going by that chart above, the original iPhone came out about a year after Series 3 was released. Look where mobile phones are now because of that.
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Old 09-06-2013, 08:34 PM   #854
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Hmm, if Tivo depends on continuing to sell hardware, they could be in trouble. The cable and satellite companies are improving their products so it'll be harder for Tivo to attract sales from the mass market.

Comcast is touting a cloud DVR. Sounds like they'd store your recordings in the cloud and stream it to clients, both living room and mobile. They wouldn't need tuners or a lot of local storage in that case. They might not really record so much as tag content you want to record for your locker and then indicate that you can view that content as long as you're a subscriber.

Yeah the Roamio may be the end of the traditional DVR, at least the traditional 3rd-party DVR.

Unless the cable companies scrap Cable Card and come out with something else.
TiVo has shifting toward being an MSO DVR supplier, rather then a retail DVR, for many years. I think they see the writing on the wall. In fact if you look at the new UI on the Roamio, compared to older units, it's very generic. Replace the TiVo logo with a Comcast logo and you'd never even know it was a TiVo unless you'd seen one before. I think that's where they're ultimately heading. They may continue to sell retail units just to increase their subscriber pool, but I doubt it'll be their main source of income 5 years from now.
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Old 09-06-2013, 08:38 PM   #855
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Have to wait and see what tech crops up in the meantime. Were Slingboxes around when Premieres were new? The answer to that may not exist yet.

Also with all the stuff that has been added, the Premieres have gotten pretty slow. Over time, it wouldn't surprise me if the Roamio box set slow with new things we don't know about yet.

A Series 6 would probably be a more powerful footprint, larger HD's, etc, etc. True "new stuff" is harder to say right now. Going by that chart above, the original iPhone came out about a year after Series 3 was released. Look where mobile phones are now because of that.
Slingbox was released in 2006, TiVo premiere in 2010, Roamio 2013. So if that tradition holds true anything that might be in the S6 3-4 years form now has already been invented.

But I understand what you're saying. I'm just not sure a beefier CPU and bigger HDD will be enough to justify a new series if the old one is still going strong. The Premiere was a piece of crap, so people were itching for something new. The Roamio has the potential to be the last TiVo I'll ever need provided they keep up the software.
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Old 09-06-2013, 08:41 PM   #856
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But I understand what you're saying. I'm just not sure a beefier CPU and bigger HDD will be enough to justify a new series if the old one is still going strong. The Premiere was a piece of crap, so people were itching for something new. The Roamio has the potential to be the last TiVo I'll ever need provided they keep up the software.
You've been around as long as I have. Do you believe that about keeping up software?

I mean, we still don't have Amazon Prime Streaming. Yeah, yeah, I know why. But if someone wanted it there hard enough, it would be there. Still don't have a complete HD menu system from what I'm reading.

Don't get me wrong, I'll end up with Roamios. I've had a TiVo for 13 years now, but fast moving software updates aren't really what TiVo seems to be about based on past history.
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Old 09-06-2013, 08:51 PM   #857
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TiVo seems to be turning over a new leaf in the last year with regards to software. I'm hoping that trend continues, or picks up pace, going forward. But I'm prepared to have my optimistic hopes dashed.
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Old 09-06-2013, 08:57 PM   #858
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TiVo seems to be turning over a new leaf in the last year with regards to software. I'm hoping that trend continues, or picks up pace, going forward. But I'm prepared to have my optimistic hopes dashed.
I'd love my overlay sarcastic self be proven wrong. We'll see how it goes.
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Old 09-06-2013, 09:00 PM   #859
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TiVo seems to be turning over a new leaf in the last year with regards to software. I'm hoping that trend continues, or picks up pace, going forward. But I'm prepared to have my optimistic hopes dashed.
I remember when the Premiere had 3-4 major updates in a year, and how psyched we all were. TiVo also became suddenly open with their communication.

Then the next year it was back to hush-hush and one update.
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Old 09-06-2013, 09:03 PM   #860
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I remember when the Premiere had 3-4 major updates in a year, and how psyched we all were. TiVo also became suddenly open with their communication.

Then the next year it was back to hush-hush and one update.
There's a history of having a lot of updates when a new Series is released. The Series 2 used to have 4 updates a year, which slowly tapered off as it got closer to the next Series's release. The same thing happened with the Series 3 and Premiere. I expect the same thing with the Roamio.
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Old 09-06-2013, 09:05 PM   #861
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Well then lets hope they can cram some awesome new stuff into the Roamio over the next year.
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Old 09-06-2013, 09:14 PM   #862
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There's a history of having a lot of updates when a new Series is released. The Series 2 used to have 4 updates a year, which slowly tapered off as it got closer to the next Series's release. The same thing happened with the Series 3 and Premiere. I expect the same thing with the Roamio.
This was the year after though. The first year they had a bunch of quick updates which were expected, but then the second year they continued. This is when they started posting in the TiVo Blog talking about what was in the update, what was coming next, etc.

Then it all stopped.
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Old 09-06-2013, 09:15 PM   #863
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Yeah it was nice back in the day when we had TiVo reps hanging out on the forum and telling us what was coming down the pipe.
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Old 09-06-2013, 09:17 PM   #864
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Yeah it was nice back in the day when we had TiVo reps hanging out on the forum and telling us what was coming down the pipe.
Wasn't it? One of them gave me a lifetime on a DirecTiVo box back in the day, because.. you know, I can't remember why he did it now. Been too many years.
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Old 09-07-2013, 12:12 AM   #865
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Pretty mcuh every TiVo has had a 3-4 year life cycle...

S1 - released March 1999
S2 - released january 2002
S3 - released September 2006
S4 - released March 2010
S5 - released August 2013

Every one except the S1 had some sort of mid-run hardware refresh. The S2 actually had several the first simply swapped the USB 1.0 ports for USB 2.0, the second was a complete change using cheaper hardware, and the 3rd was the S2DT. The S3 got the TiVo HD which was a cheaper design and added M-Card support. And the Premiere got the 4 tuner box.

I'm betting that in March 2015 we'll see some sort of hardware refresh, but it'll be minor.
When was The TiVo HD officially released (I know sometime between the S3 and Premiere)? That's missing.

One could also wonder if TiVo might do a similar lower-cost release of a Roamio Plus/Pro, if they find the sales are sluggish, due to price...

They could do something like take out the wireless daughterboard, and other cost saving parts, and have a Roamio "budget" with 6 tuners...
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Old 09-07-2013, 12:13 AM   #866
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The apps platform is HTML5, which is where most of the industry is going. I saw a post on the Plex forurm where someone was already working on porting Plex to HTML5 for Boxee, so if that get's finished then it should be relatively easy to submit it to the Opera TV Store and have it end up on TiVo. Other major services like Amazon and VUDU already have HTML5 implementations, so they should be easy to port over as well. I don't know what other apps platform they could adopt that would be better.
Yep, check out some of these HTML5 "couch friendly" URLs... more to follow, I'm sure.

http://www.theonion.com/video/googletv/

http://vimeo.com/couchmode/staffpick...:date/73790095

http://iptv-app.dailymotion.com/dm-f...x.jsp?&lang=us


This thread has the developer of PyTiVo adding a command for opening URLs on the TiVo...

And here's discussion of it in kmttg:
http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2013-09/...ays-web-video/

(and my interest in the Roamio just skyrocketed)
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Old 09-07-2013, 01:38 AM   #867
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Comcast is touting a cloud DVR. Sounds like they'd store your recordings in the cloud and stream it to clients, both living room and mobile. They wouldn't need tuners or a lot of local storage in that case. They might not really record so much as tag content you want to record for your locker and then indicate that you can view that content as long as you're a subscriber.
Don't like. I have retained recordings on my TiVo from premium channels from which I stop subscribing months ago.
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Old 09-07-2013, 02:34 AM   #868
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When was The TiVo HD officially released (I know sometime between the S3 and Premiere)? That's missing.

One could also wonder if TiVo might do a similar lower-cost release of a Roamio Plus/Pro, if they find the sales are sluggish, due to price...

They could do something like take out the wireless daughterboard, and other cost saving parts, and have a Roamio "budget" with 6 tuners...
The TiVoHD was actually a S3, so it wasn't a new series. It was released less then a year after the original S3. They did this because the original S3 was way to expensive ($799) and sales were suffering. The TiVo HD was a cheaper entry ($299) into the HD universe.

They did a similar thing with the S2 units with the 540 series. However they used completely different hardware then their predecessors and could have actually been considered a new series. TiVo simply chose not to designate them that way. Probably because they were total pieces of crap that were poorly made and actually slower then their predecessors in every way. The Premiere is known for being slow as crap at running the HDUI, but if you compare it to a S3 running the SDUI it is superior in every way. The 540 series S2 units were actually worse at everything compared to the 140 and 240 series S2 units that came before them. They were so cheaply made they even had a little TiVo sticker on the front that was natorious for curling up and falling off.
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Old 09-07-2013, 05:00 AM   #869
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I guess they could upgrade with a faster CPU and better GPU for fancier apps, but no one is really going to want to play Angry Birds using their TiVo remote anyway so that's probably unnecessary.

Angry Birds on my Roku (with the Bluetooth remote, which has a built-in accelerometer and gyroscope) is actually my favorite version of the game. I don't think it needs all that much horsepower. But it's all about UI, and the remote controller on that game is perfect for it.
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Old 09-07-2013, 09:32 AM   #870
astrohip
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wco81 View Post
Comcast is touting a cloud DVR. Sounds like they'd store your recordings in the cloud and stream it to clients, both living room and mobile. They wouldn't need tuners or a lot of local storage in that case. They might not really record so much as tag content you want to record for your locker and then indicate that you can view that content as long as you're a subscriber.
This was discussed in another thread (the concept of a cloud DVR). And while we're just one forum of advanced users, the consensus was this would be a no-go from the get-go. I want my recordings on my DVR.

And if they just TAG content, then that's just VOD. And there is no way, at this point in time, content creators are going to allow VOD without their piece of the pie. Look at how much is NOT available via VOD. They won't simply allow the MOS to provide it as if it was recorded.
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