TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Roamio DVRs
TiVo Community
Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 50 votes, 5.00 average.
Old 08-22-2013, 04:12 PM   #571
ncbill
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
Posts: 175
Sure, some people see the $20-$25/month cable company 2-tuner HD DVR as "cheaper" than buying a 4-tuner Roamio Basic w/ lifetime.

But just like w/ autos, those who lease always end up with a higher TCO than those who buy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dswallow View Post
For many, especially those who essentially live paycheck-to-paycheck, the present-value of the money is of far greater value to them than the potential savings three years down the road, or more.

It's the rare techie gadget that isn't superceded by something newer/faster/better/cheaper within 3 to 4 years -- and often much earlier -- anyway. Sure, you'll be able to find people that have had their receivers used and active for longer, but there's lots of cases where that won't be the case, too.

ncbill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 04:31 PM   #572
BigJimOutlaw
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,595
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvn View Post
From what I'm reading from Tivo's emails, it seems as though I'll need a MOCA adapter attached to my router. The Roamio Plus will be in a room without ethernet. So, I'm assuming the wireless is only for connections, not passing MOCa to the Roamio Plus with built-in MOCA. I plan to have four Minis. Can anyone confirm that I need the MOCA adapter, just like with the Premiere XL 4?
Yeah the Plus works in the same was as the XL4. The WiFi would work well enough for external service connections (guide data, Netflix, etc) but your Mini streaming will need to be handled by ethernet and/or moca. You're correct, a moca adapter connected to the modem/router will set your house up.
BigJimOutlaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 04:58 PM   #573
Philmatic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fofer View Post
I don't think it's been determined that out of network streaming/downloading will "need" WiFi (and not work over 3G/4G/LTE,) and even if so, yes, we all know about workarounds for that.
One of the TiVo engineers mentioned to The Verge that it will be restricted to WiFi until TiVo implements specific techniques that Apple requires to allow video streaming applications to work on 3G/LTE. It could be something as easy as adaptive video bitrate support. That would likely require an update to the app and to the Stream hardware.
Philmatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 05:32 PM   #574
Fofer
༺♥༻
 
Fofer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Neither here nor there
Posts: 69,748
TC CLUB MEMBER
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philmatic View Post

One of the TiVo engineers mentioned to The Verge that it will be restricted to WiFi until TiVo implements specific techniques that Apple requires to allow video streaming applications to work on 3G/LTE. It could be something as easy as adaptive video bitrate support. That would likely require an update to the app and to the Stream hardware.
In that case, I'd expect video streaming over cellular (using the hotspot "trick" so the app thinks you're on wifi) in the meantime to stutter and otherwise not work well at all. Without adaptive video bitrate support, the underlying cellular connection will be a bottleneck, in most cases.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- a list of some favorite browser add-ons that help make TCF even more enjoyable!
Fofer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 05:34 PM   #575
wco81
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJimOutlaw View Post
Yeah the Plus works in the same was as the XL4. The WiFi would work well enough for external service connections (guide data, Netflix, etc) but your Mini streaming will need to be handled by ethernet and/or moca. You're correct, a moca adapter connected to the modem/router will set your house up.

I've never used MOCA. Would I just connect the coax to the Roamio and the Mini or do I need this MOCA adapter plugged into my router as well?
wco81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 05:37 PM   #576
aindik
Registered User
 
aindik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 27,887
Quote:
Originally Posted by wco81 View Post
I've never used MOCA. Would I just connect the coax to the Roamio and the Mini or do I need this MOCA adapter plugged into my router as well?
You either need a MOCA adapter to your router, or you need an Ethernet cable from your Roamio to your router.
aindik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 05:38 PM   #577
tvn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJimOutlaw View Post
Yeah the Plus works in the same was as the XL4. The WiFi would work well enough for external service connections (guide data, Netflix, etc) but your Mini streaming will need to be handled by ethernet and/or moca. You're correct, a moca adapter connected to the modem/router will set your house up.
Thank you. I wish I could have negotiated one when I made the major purchase! I'll have to wait a few days before hooking up the Minis.
tvn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 05:38 PM   #578
wco81
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 246
Just a Wifi connection between the Roamio and router isn't enough, has to be ethernet?
wco81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 05:46 PM   #579
aindik
Registered User
 
aindik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 27,887
Quote:
Originally Posted by wco81 View Post
Just a Wifi connection between the Roamio and router isn't enough, has to be ethernet?
Yes. The point of MoCa being that WiFi isn't fast/reliable enough.

And now that I think about it, you might need the adapter anyway if it's a Roamio (as opposed to a Roamio plus or pro).
aindik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 05:50 PM   #580
rothsss
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Greenwich, CT
Posts: 19
Is there any advantage of ethernet over moca or the other way around? I have both connections and need to decide. Thanks.
rothsss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 06:02 PM   #581
nooneuknow
TiVo User Since 2007
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cox Cable Market, NV
Posts: 2,896
Quote:
Originally Posted by rothsss View Post
Is there any advantage of ethernet over moca or the other way around? I have both connections and need to decide. Thanks.
If you don't already have Cat5e or Cat6 network cables to everyplace a networked device will be, and can afford a few adapters, the required POE filters, and filters for other Cable devices that would be disrupted by receiving a MoCA signal, it's really ideal, unless you want/need gigabit Ethernet. MoCA is getting faster, but last I checked, it's still around ~250Mbps. The main thing people LOVE about it is the need for only ONE cable, to carry both your cable signal and the networking.
__________________
Cisco tuning adapters should never be used inline (using the TA coax OUT port) to connect a TiVo, if MoCA is in use. Use a splitter w/PoE filter on leg to TA, use other leg for the TiVo. Enjoy!
nooneuknow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 06:16 PM   #582
rothsss
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Greenwich, CT
Posts: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
If you don't already have Cat5e or Cat6 network cables to everyplace a networked device will be, and can afford a few adapters, the required POE filters, and filters for other Cable devices that would be disrupted by receiving a MoCA signal, it's really ideal, unless you want/need gigabit Ethernet. MoCA is getting faster, but last I checked, it's still around ~250Mbps. The main thing people LOVE about it is the need for only ONE cable, to carry both your cable signal and the networking.
I am replacing my 3 secondary TiVos with 3 Minis. These 3 TiVos have both a coax and a Cat5 connection. I understand that for the Minis I need one or the other connection. I was wondering whether I will notice a difference depending on which one I keep and which one I disconnect.
rothsss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 06:18 PM   #583
TC25D
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
If you don't already have Cat5e or Cat6 network cables to everyplace a networked device will be, and can afford a few adapters, the required POE filters, and filters for other Cable devices that would be disrupted by receiving a MoCA signal, it's really ideal, unless you want/need gigabit Ethernet. MoCA is getting faster, but last I checked, it's still around ~250Mbps. The main thing people LOVE about it is the need for only ONE cable, to carry both your cable signal and the networking.
Sorry, but this post is confusing to this noob.

I have Cat6 running to the location where my Roamio Basic will be and where the Mini will be. The Cat6 connects to a Gig router.

Will this work?
TC25D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 06:29 PM   #584
nooneuknow
TiVo User Since 2007
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cox Cable Market, NV
Posts: 2,896
Quote:
Originally Posted by rothsss View Post
I am replacing my 3 secondary TiVos with 3 Minis. These 3 TiVos have both a coax and a Cat5 connection. I understand that for the Minis I need one or the other connection. I was wondering whether I will notice a difference depending on which one I keep and which one I disconnect.
Only on devices that support gigabit Ethernet, that find themselves on a MoCA, or 100Mbit network (where the devices can, and do, actually use the extra bandwidth).

It all depends on what the equipment can support, and if it even uses the full bandwidth of what it supports. For example, TiVo HD models had 100Mbit Ethernet, but only ran at ~60Mbps, because they were underpowered. You could get ~85, or more Mbps if you put one into standby while transferring a show off that unit (more processor cycles to run the networking).

If You have gigabit Ethernet, a switch, and use one of those ports for a computer/laptop, it's network performance would suffer if you switched it to a MoCA bridge to Ethernet adapter, instead.

Really, unless there's computers involved, MoCA *should* be enough. You can always have a mix-and-match of Ethernet and MoCA (and bridges between them). I can't comment on the new TiVos, and if you'd notice with those. I don't own any.

Unless you are really wanting to lower the number of cables, if you already have them there, I'd say keep them and use them. Some people are bothered by the sight of cables. You can always hide them, or but snap-together plastic channels to run them through.

The day I see both reliable and gigabit MoCA, may be the day I consider changing-over. Otherwise, if the networking cables are there, I'm going to just use them.
__________________
Cisco tuning adapters should never be used inline (using the TA coax OUT port) to connect a TiVo, if MoCA is in use. Use a splitter w/PoE filter on leg to TA, use other leg for the TiVo. Enjoy!

Last edited by nooneuknow : 08-22-2013 at 06:39 PM.
nooneuknow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 06:32 PM   #585
nooneuknow
TiVo User Since 2007
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cox Cable Market, NV
Posts: 2,896
Quote:
Originally Posted by TC25D View Post
Sorry, but this post is confusing to this noob.

I have Cat6 running to the location where my Roamio Basic will be and where the Mini will be. The Cat6 connects to a Gig router.

Will this work?
Certainly! If you're not looking to eliminate extra wires, which are already there, why take out the fastest and most reliable networking method, right? I sure wouldn't.
__________________
Cisco tuning adapters should never be used inline (using the TA coax OUT port) to connect a TiVo, if MoCA is in use. Use a splitter w/PoE filter on leg to TA, use other leg for the TiVo. Enjoy!
nooneuknow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 06:37 PM   #586
TC25D
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 202
Thanks!

I just received the email from TiVo my Roamio Basic and Mini have shipped. I can't wait to take my 2 DVRs back to my cable company and exchange them for 1 CableCard.
TC25D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 06:41 PM   #587
wco81
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 246
Hmm, I have 30-year old coax in the walls.

Is that going to be enough for MOCA?
wco81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 06:49 PM   #588
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 25,215
Quote:
Originally Posted by wco81 View Post
Hmm, I have 30-year old coax in the walls.

Is that going to be enough for MOCA?
MoCa is adaptive so it typically just slows down over lower quality wires. However it does eventually get to the point where it wont work. If MoCa doesn't work then you could always use WiFi or buy some powerline adapters. Or pull some new coax.
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 06:52 PM   #589
wco81
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 246
How long does it take to degrade?

I was thinking the bigger issue was that the coax used 30 years ago weren't rated to carry as much bandwidth as RG-6?

I would guess Cat 5 didn't exist back then either?
wco81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 06:54 PM   #590
tcorning
Registered User
 
tcorning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rose4uKY View Post
So now she had to deactivate the P4 but she said there is usually a 3 day grace period so can we not record at all not even manually? And our new Romio will be here within 6 business days and we have 15 to return the P4. We don't want to return P4 till new one gets here.
If the unit has not been deactivated yet, you can disconnect the network cable so that it cannot connect to TiVo and be told about the deactivation. At this point you probably have enough Guide Data to make it through another 12 days which should cover getting the new unit installed. Of course you won't be able to use any network services like Netflix, but you'll be able to record.

Ted
tcorning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 06:55 PM   #591
nooneuknow
TiVo User Since 2007
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cox Cable Market, NV
Posts: 2,896
Quote:
Originally Posted by wco81 View Post
Hmm, I have 30-year old coax in the walls.

Is that going to be enough for MOCA?
I sure wouldn't trust it, even if the cable signal isn't currently degraded. It might become degraded, and the MoCA as well, since 30-year old coax is poorly shielded, was (likely) never intended/rated for 1GHZ or higher frequencies, has itself degraded with age, and will possibly show it's age when you start running those higher frequency MoCA signals through it.

I just got done eliminating the last of the 30 year old in-wall coax in use in my house. It was getting AC current into it because they ran it too close to live electrical wires (especially when in parallel runs), and I don't even use MoCA (in Cat5e/Cat6 I trust). Your coax is probably single-shield. The worst would be if it was RG59 (thinner), as opposed to RG6.

You may want to check the official MoCA website, and see what they have to say about old/existing coax versus the dual/quad shielded and more highly rated coax of today's age.
__________________
Cisco tuning adapters should never be used inline (using the TA coax OUT port) to connect a TiVo, if MoCA is in use. Use a splitter w/PoE filter on leg to TA, use other leg for the TiVo. Enjoy!
nooneuknow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 07:10 PM   #592
aindik
Registered User
 
aindik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 27,887
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
MoCa is adaptive so it typically just slows down over lower quality wires. However it does eventually get to the point where it wont work. If MoCa doesn't work then you could always use WiFi or buy some powerline adapters. Or pull some new coax.
Can't use WiFi to stream shows from a TiVo DVR to a TiVo Mini.
aindik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 07:13 PM   #593
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 25,215
Quote:
Originally Posted by aindik View Post
Can't use WiFi to stream shows from a TiVo DVR to a TiVo Mini.
You can, it's just not supported and there are no guarantees it would maintain a good enough connection. However 802.11n should be OK for 1 stream. Although you'd need a WiFi bridge for the Mini, unless it's connected directly to the WiFi router/AP.
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 09:20 PM   #594
mattack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: sunnyvale
Posts: 17,162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
That was already updated on the Premiere in the last software update.
Are you referring to my post? They definitely are NOT on my Premiere 4.. you still see the screen 'switch' to the old UI.
mattack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 10:05 PM   #595
MikeAndrews
Registered abuser
 
MikeAndrews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Northern Illinois (Dn Nr WI)
Posts: 12,062
Quote:
Originally Posted by innocentfreak View Post
The Verge Nilay seems to like it and he hated the Premiere. Price seems to be his big complaint.

Quote:
Quote:
Irritatingly, TiVo still hasnít converted the entire interface to HD ó there are still old-style SD screens throughout the settings menu, which Iíve been complaining about for at least three years. Why canít anyone at TiVo just spend a weekend fixing this? Denney laughs at me. "I have that conversation with the engineering team all the time," he says. "It truly is a matter of prioritization." Note to TiVo: this needs to be a priority.
If the UI is SD only only on the settings menus it's not so bad, is it? How often do you change the settings?

You need hi-res HD media screens so you can have graphics and more useful info on the screen. Not so much to choose setting options.
__________________
1) Series 4 Premiere - Lifetime
2) Series 3 OLED - Lifetime.
2) Series 2 DT 500GB
Mac Mini NAS with 9 7 x 2TB drives.
UVerse and OTA

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MikeAndrews is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 10:10 PM   #596
innocentfreak
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Florida
Posts: 8,537
Quote:
Originally Posted by netringer View Post
If the UI is SD only only on the settings menus it's not so bad, is it? How often do you change the settings?

You need hi-res HD media screens so you can have graphics and more useful info on the screen. Not so much to choose setting options.
If it takes more than 3 years to update, then yes it is that bad.

Would it be that bad if the iPhone apps weren't all updated yet for the new screen size of the iPhone 5? That hasn't been out for 3 years yet.
__________________
1 - TiVo Roamio Pro
2 - TiVo Premiere XL

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
innocentfreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 10:27 PM   #597
wco81
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
You can, it's just not supported and there are no guarantees it would maintain a good enough connection. However 802.11n should be OK for 1 stream. Although you'd need a WiFi bridge for the Mini, unless it's connected directly to the WiFi router/AP.
Can you only use the Tivo Wifi Bridge or any third party one?

I have a Netgear or Linksys one that I'm using with a Direct TV DVR, which actually supports it by having a UI to configure the bridge (entering settings and passwords).

Does the Mini have some UI to configure the bridge?
wco81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 10:37 PM   #598
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 25,215
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattack View Post
Are you referring to my post? They definitely are NOT on my Premiere 4.. you still see the screen 'switch' to the old UI.
No I was referring to this one...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy J B View Post
The "Set Up a Manual Recording" is updated.
The "Find by Time" & "Find by Channel" are not.
Specifically the "Set up a manual recording" part. That was converted to HD in the last Premiere update.

Find by time/channel are still SD.
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 10:39 PM   #599
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 25,215
Quote:
Originally Posted by wco81 View Post
Can you only use the Tivo Wifi Bridge or any third party one?

I have a Netgear or Linksys one that I'm using with a Direct TV DVR, which actually supports it by having a UI to configure the bridge (entering settings and passwords).

Does the Mini have some UI to configure the bridge?
You can use any bridge. They basically just convert Ethernet traffic to Wifi so as far as the Mini is concerned you're using Ethernet.

However you have to use a PC to set it up. The Mini doesn't have a UI for setting it up even if you use the TiVo one.
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 03:20 AM   #600
Icarus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Upcountry Maui, Hawaii
Posts: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by wco81 View Post
Just a Wifi connection between the Roamio and router isn't enough, has to be ethernet?
if you are using moca between a roamio and mini(s) then somebody else said you could use the wifi on the roamio to bridge moca to your internet connection.

I think that's fine, you are using moca for streaming, wifi for guide updates, external streaming, etc (just not for streaming to the minis).

-David
Icarus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump




Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVoģ is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:02 AM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |