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Old 07-14-2015, 06:49 AM   #1
Humble
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Shudder on British TV Shows

I experience constant shudder (hopefully the correct word) during television shows originating from England. The most current example is the TV show called Humans. I had the same problem trying to watch Orphan Black (I think that is the correct title). I also had a problem trying to watch the recent detective show with Gillian Andersen (Can't recall the name). I have Frontier Fios and the channels I have seen this on are Bravo, A&E, and AMC. English productions on PBS are always superb.

I have my video settings set up using all the available configurations and I use HDMI exclusively (no component).

Is there some way of stabilizing the picture? My Tivo Roamio Plus feeds a Sony Bravia 1080P capable set and I only watch HD.

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Old 07-14-2015, 07:13 AM   #2
JoeKustra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humble View Post
I experience constant shudder (hopefully the correct word) during television shows originating from England. The most current example is the TV show called Humans. I had the same problem trying to watch Orphan Black (I think that is the correct title). I also had a problem trying to watch the recent detective show with Gillian Andersen (Can't recall the name). I have Frontier Fios and the channels I have seen this on are Bravo, A&E, and AMC. English productions on PBS are always superb.

I have my video settings set up using all the available configurations and I use HDMI exclusively (no component).

Is there some way of stabilizing the picture? My Tivo Roamio Plus feeds a Sony Bravia 1080P capable set and I only watch HD.
After watching the first two episodes of Humans on cable 1080i AMC I saw no issues. It's on Amazon also. You can watch Ep 1 for free. That would get you a second opinion.

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Old 07-14-2015, 06:28 PM   #3
Humble
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How can you watch for free? Mine says $1.99 per episode. Thanks for your suggestion.

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Old 07-14-2015, 06:35 PM   #4
CoxInPHX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humble View Post
I have my video settings set up using all the available configurations and I use HDMI exclusively (no component).
Try setting just one resolution on the TiVo either 1080i or 1080p and then 1080p pass-thru only

I record and watch a lot of UK programming and have never seen an issue.

Orphan Black is actually Canadian, not UK
Humans is a joint US/UK production

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Last edited by CoxInPHX; 07-14-2015 at 08:28 PM.
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Old 07-14-2015, 07:20 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humble View Post
How can you watch for free? Mine says $1.99 per episode. Thanks for your suggestion.
Maybe it's because I have Prime. But the free for ep 1 shows when you select the show. It has three episodes, only the first is free.

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Old 07-16-2015, 11:08 AM   #6
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The "shudder" is the result of the conversion from (what we still call PAL) the 25fps to the (what we still refer to as NTSC) 30fps conversion having been poorly done by the contractred "house" that preforms the services. The "shudder" appears if you have your HDTV Dejudder and/or Smooth/Fast motion featuers turned ON. The solution is for you to turn OFF those features and the poorly converted UK content should display smoothly. You can turn those features back on for other content if you wish.

Oh, yes, it never happens on PBS because they have very high standards and they PAY for the job being done right. Unfortunately, other channels find less expensive houses to do it. I will also add that how my older Sony handles poorly frame converted content with Dejudder on that results in your "shudder" is in contrast with how my very recent Samsungs and Sony HDTV's all with Dejudder and Smooth at maximum settings produce no "shudder" displaying the same poorly converted content from the same source, while I've seen other recent HDTV's still produce the "shudder". My very recent HDTV's do psudo very high refresh rates far beyond 120Hz that is really about messing with the frames and backlight that may be resulting in other wise "shuddering" material being displayed smoothy on those HDTV's, while my older Sony is just plain, but real, not fake, 120Hz and it will "shudder" with poolry converted content with dejudder on.

This "shudder" can also appear on USA 30fps content if a channel decides to drop a frame, a technique used to speed up the playback of the content, again if your dejudder and smooth features are active. I've seen this on many episodes of Law & Order, but not lately, which makes me think people must have complained.

What you are experiencing is just an example of things not being done properly, and the channels don't care because they got a good price from the house and it is only on those sets with those folks who activate dejudder, etc. While other channels or services hire a good house to get the conversion done properly. Good luck.


Last edited by Series3Sub; 07-16-2015 at 11:30 AM.
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Old 07-18-2015, 08:14 AM   #7
Humble
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To Series3Sub: I turned off "Motion Enhancer" and it was different but still had the shudder. I also tried putting the "Motion Enhancer" on "High" and it was also different but the shudder remains. After reading your post, I was wondering if the new televisions have something in them that "fixes" the problem. Is the problem handled differently among the television providers? I have Frontier Fios and perhaps Comcast or Directv have fixed it for their customers.

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Old 07-18-2015, 10:58 AM   #8
telemark
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the Gillian Anderson show is called "The Fall".

That show is on Netflix, you might see if the problem goes away using a different source.

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Old 07-18-2015, 10:22 PM   #9
Humble
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Series3Sub: Is the correct term for my "Shudder" dejudder? Answered my own question. It is "judder". Looked it up using google.


Last edited by Humble; 07-19-2015 at 05:40 PM.
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Old 07-19-2015, 10:04 PM   #10
Humble
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Series3Sub: Is the correct term for my "Shudder" dejudder? Answered my own question. It is "judder". Looked it up using google.
The answer: Thanks to all who responded. The solution was to reduce my signal from 1080P to 1080i, remove the full aspect setting and bring back side panels on 4X3 shows, and set motion control to off. It seems to be working although the quality of all my picture is slightly softer than it was before.


Last edited by Humble; 07-20-2015 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 07-19-2015, 10:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Series3Sub View Post
The "shudder" is the result of the conversion from (what we still call PAL) the 25fps to the (what we still refer to as NTSC) 30fps conversion having been poorly done by the contractred "house" that preforms the services. The "shudder" appears if you have your HDTV Dejudder and/or Smooth/Fast motion featuers turned ON. The solution is for you to turn OFF those features and the poorly converted UK content should display smoothly. You can turn those features back on for other content if you wish.

Oh, yes, it never happens on PBS because they have very high standards and they PAY for the job being done right. Unfortunately, other channels find less expensive houses to do it. I will also add that how my older Sony handles poorly frame converted content with Dejudder on that results in your "shudder" is in contrast with how my very recent Samsungs and Sony HDTV's all with Dejudder and Smooth at maximum settings produce no "shudder" displaying the same poorly converted content from the same source, while I've seen other recent HDTV's still produce the "shudder". My very recent HDTV's do psudo very high refresh rates far beyond 120Hz that is really about messing with the frames and backlight that may be resulting in other wise "shuddering" material being displayed smoothy on those HDTV's, while my older Sony is just plain, but real, not fake, 120Hz and it will "shudder" with poolry converted content with dejudder on.

This "shudder" can also appear on USA 30fps content if a channel decides to drop a frame, a technique used to speed up the playback of the content, again if your dejudder and smooth features are active. I've seen this on many episodes of Law & Order, but not lately, which makes me think people must have complained.

What you are experiencing is just an example of things not being done properly, and the channels don't care because they got a good price from the house and it is only on those sets with those folks who activate dejudder, etc. While other channels or services hire a good house to get the conversion done properly. Good luck.
NTSC is 29.97fps not 30fps, and with HD it depends on whether it's 1080i or 720p. The former is 25/29.97, but the later is 50/59.94.

Also the coversion really shouldn't be that much of an issue for TV dramas or movies. Most TV dramas and almost all movies are actually shot at 24fps. For US TV they use a technique called telecine where they repeat fields in a 3:2 pattern to achieve 29.97. For PAL they simply play the 24fps at 25fps and use a minor pitch adjustment on the audio to compensate for the slight speed up. Usually you only see judder when converting from something recorded at 25fps to 29.97 or when playing PAL DVDs on a US DVD player, because the technique used to convert that way is complex and most tools don't/can't do it correctly.

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