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Old 08-18-2013, 01:30 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by BOMOON View Post
Actually, the download doesn't "enable you to make a bootable cd". It includes an EXE file with the instructions to "copy the program to a bootable cd". There's no tool for creating that bootable CD, and there's no built-in tool in Windows 7 to accomplish that (format/make MS-DOS boot Disc only works for floppies - no such option for CDs).

I found a lot of downloadable ISO files to create bootable DOS CDs for Windows 7, but they all finalized the CD after I burned the image - even when I told my burning software not to finalize the CD. Using a CD-RW made no difference. Thus I was never able to copy that executable to a bootable CD.

See steve614's post and my response. The best solution is an ISO that already includes the WD diagnostics. There's nothing like that for this drive on the WD website.
So many details. But yes, appropriate cd burning software would be needed along with the download at WD to make the bootable cd.

Been so long since I've done it.
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Old 08-18-2013, 10:55 AM   #32
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Regardless of all that, I don't see how a Windows or DOS client can diagnose problems on an HDD that uses a different file system. Even formatting would give questionable results, because it will format the drive with the Windows file system, clusters, etc.
The drive diagnostic tools are testing at the hardware level and not the file system level so it doesn't care what file system is on the drive.

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Old 08-18-2013, 02:12 PM   #33
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So many details. But yes, appropriate cd burning software would be needed along with the download at WD to make the bootable cd.

Been so long since I've done it.
Don't I know it. I wasn't being nitty about your posts (sorry if I came across that way), just doing some immature whining about all the crap I ran into when I tried to make this work somehow.

Hey - when you're 60+, a little immaturity now and then is actually a treasured experience.

Back on topic, you might want to check out that link provided by Steve614. That ISO download has a lot of great things besides the WD diagnostics. A number of other hard drive models are supported with utility software, and there are many other options besides HDD maintenance that I haven't even explored yet.

Plus for a DOS program it has a pretty good user interface. I think it's well worth having if you have a Windows OS PC that can boot off a CD drive.

Here's a copy of it:

http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/download.html

BTW I usually burn my disc images - CD (MP3, CDA, data), DVD, Blu-Ray with the freeware Ashampoo burner. I've never had a problem with it. A solid burner utlity:

http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/download.html

Have a good one,
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Old 08-18-2013, 10:31 PM   #34
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Hello Everyone who's been following this thread,

I've had mixed success with the WD Diagnostics, at least as far as I can tell from the test results.

I figured I probably should commit an internet faux pas and cross-post a message in the UltimateBootCD forum just in case someone here has had experience with the WD diagnostics and knows how to interpret the results. Here's the post, followed by a link to the UltimateBootCD forum:
**********************************************
Hello,
I'm using Ultimate Boot 5.2.5 for the first time. I'm trying to run the HDD Data Lifeguard Diagnostic Extended Test For DOS 5.20 (Western Digital) on a TiVo Series 3 HD DVR hard drive, model number WD2500BS 250GB. Currently it's connected to a Dell Dimension 8400 which boots from the UltimateBootCD.

What happens is that the Quick Test portion of the Extended Test will run. After that, instead of running the Full Media Scan, I get a message saying that I have to restart the system. When I do this, it's back to square one. No media scan is done and I have to try to start the extended test all over again.

Here's the exact sequence of messages at the end of the Quick Test:

"Warning! One or more current or worst-case attributes are below threshold"

"Hit ANY Key to continue"

(Key typed)

"The System Must be Reset - Hit CTRL-ALT-DEL or Turn the Power Off"

The wording of the first message suggests that test results lower than the threshold values indicate failure. However, things like Raw Read Error Rate are above the threshold value. Is this a pass or a fail? Seems like a high Raw Read Error Rate would be a failure, rather than a pass because it's not "below threshold."

In fact the only test that results in a "below threshold" value is the Seek Error Test. The rest of the results are all much higher than the listed Thresholds.

Here are the detailed results of the Quick Test (breaks in ID sequence are as reported here):

ID Name Value Thresh Worst

1. Raw Read Error Rate 200 51 200
3. Spin Up Time 193 21 193
4. Start/Stop Count 180 0 180
5. Re-allocated sector count 176 148 176
7. Seek Error Rate 1 51 1
9, Power-On Hours Count 34 0 34
10. Spin Retry Count 100 51 253
11. Drive Calibration Retry Count 100 51 253
12. Drive Power Cycle Count 100 8 100
190. Airflow Temperature 56 45 50
194. HDA Temperature 107 0 180
196. Re-Allocated Sector Event 99 0 99
197. Current Pending Sector Count 200 0 200
198. Offline Uncorrectable Sector Count 200 0 200
199. UltraDMA CRC Error Rate 200 0 200
200. Mutli Zone Error Rate 200 51 200

So is the Extended Test not running because of these results? Anyone have any ideas?

**********************************************

http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/forums...7fc1a01543ce66

Thanks for your time,
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Old 08-19-2013, 06:24 AM   #35
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Just get a new drive.
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Old 08-19-2013, 06:45 AM   #36
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BOMOON--

The UBCD has something on there called PartedMagic.

It loads a GUI-type desktop.

It has a thing to click on that says disk health or something like that.

It'll show whatever hard drives are connected.

Then you can click the icon for your TiVo drive and click "details" and get some info that way.

But if the WD software can't get any further than that, it's time to replace the drive.
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Old 08-19-2013, 03:13 PM   #37
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Just get a new drive.
A lot of fuss, eh? It's because I'm trying desperately to recover the recordings on that drive. If it weren't for that, I would have used the Occam's Razor principle at the first sign of trouble and bought a new drive right away.

At least by dragging out the whole issue like this, I got some great links for boot CD utilities and good deals for Plug & Play TiVo hard drives.

Now that I have those links, I'll take your advice and shop for a new drive and put recovery of the old recordings on the back burner. The good news is that I have the external expansion drive for the TiVo, so some of the recordings may be intact on that one. Time will tell.
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Old 08-19-2013, 03:18 PM   #38
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But if the WD software can't get any further than that, it's time to replace the drive.
I just wanted to be sure it wasn't a problem with the WD software. It's too bad that the quick test results have that ambiguous "below threshold" message.

I'm still not sure the drive is actually bad, but I've decided after all this time to shop the recommended vendors for a plug and play TiVo drive. Checking out the old drive is being relegated to a background task.

Thanks to all for your help and the great links !!!
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Old 08-19-2013, 03:34 PM   #39
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A lot of fuss, eh? It's because I'm trying desperately to recover the recordings on that drive. If it weren't for that, I would have used the Occam's Razor principle at the first sign of trouble and bought a new drive right away.

At least by dragging out the whole issue like this, I got some great links for boot CD utilities and good deals for Plug & Play TiVo hard drives.

Now that I have those links, I'll take your advice and shop for a new drive and put recovery of the old recordings on the back burner. The good news is that I have the external expansion drive for the TiVo, so some of the recordings may be intact on that one. Time will tell.
My understanding is that Tivo does not save recordings on individual drives. They are striped across both drives.

At this point I would just keep both drives as-is and see what people say about recovering anything. I have recovered single drives using dd_rescue, but I'm not sure what the procedure is for an internal and external, if there is one.
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Old 08-19-2013, 05:05 PM   #40
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These excerpts from the TiVo forum FAQ suggest that upgrading the internal drive with one of the Weaknees or DVRDude plug & play drives will trash the expander eSATA interface, thus also trashing the content on the expander drive.

As WO312 has suggested, this may be a moot point. If the recordings really are "striped" across the two drives, upgrading the internal HDD would make the content on the expander drive unreadable.

More research.... sigh. I thought those Weaknees and DVDRDude drives might be a good option, but if they disable support for the eSATA expansion port, I may have to re-think my options.

Here are the FAQ excerpts from http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...highlight=SATA

6. Can I add an eSATA drive if I previously upgraded the hard drive in my TiVo?

The new "plug and play" eSATA expansion support does not work if you upgrade the built-in drive on the TiVoHD and Series3.

You can still add an eSATA drive to an upgraded TiVo, but doing so requires you to open the box and void the warranty. Instructions to do that can also be found in Section IV, #10.


7. Can I add an eSATA drive to upgraded TiVos purchased from Weaknees, DVRUpgrade, and other third parties?

As per the previous FAQ, the new "plug and play" eSATA expansion support does not work on any upgraded TiVo. That includes all upgraded TiVos sold by Weaknees and DVRUpgrade. It does not matter who does the upgrade.

You can still add an eSATA drive to an upgraded TiVo, but doing so requires you to open the box and void the warranty. Instructions to do that can be found in Section IV, #10 of this FAQ.


8. I already have a My DVR Expander connected. Can I upgrade the TiVo's built-in drive, without losing the recordings on the external drive?

No. You cannot upgrade the TiVo's built-in drive without losing all recordings on the external drive. You cannot upgrade the built-in drive until you disconnect and remove the My DVR Expander.

You can transfer unprotected recordings to another TiVo with MRV and/or download them to your computer. Once recordings are transferred to another TiVo with MRV, or downloaded to a computer, you can transfer them back to the TiVo after the new drive upgrade.

Once you upgrade the built-in drive, the TiVo's "play and play" drive expansion no longer works.
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Old 08-20-2013, 06:39 AM   #41
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Not sure why you would be interested in an expansion drive. Just get a 2 TB upgrade and have the single drive. Much more capacity than you have now and only one hard drive to worry about.
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Old 08-20-2013, 02:56 PM   #42
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Not sure why you would be interested in an expansion drive. Just get a 2 TB upgrade and have the single drive. Much more capacity than you have now and only one hard drive to worry about.
As I said in my previous post,

"These excerpts from the TiVo forum FAQ suggest that upgrading the internal drive with one of the Weaknees or DVRDude plug & play drives will trash the expander eSATA interface, thus also trashing the content on the expander drive."

IOW, I'm only interested in trying to salvage the content on the existing expander drive. Once I do that (if I can), there certainly would be no need to continue using it if I have a 1TB or 2TB internal.
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Old 08-20-2013, 03:43 PM   #43
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Interesting because I just had the same thing happen to me with my S3, infinite power loop. I didn't receive any pixelation ahead of time (what happened the last two times I pulled an S3 hard drive and rebuilt). So I walked down and got a WD-AV drive to replace it in the Tivo. I used WinMFS, built a truncated drive. This worked for about a week, the S3 then returned back to the infinite powering up loop even with a known clean drive. Curious I watched it and both times and the loops occurred after the second connection ie software download. Does anyone know what the current S3 image is and has a new system update been pushed in the last month? These issues for me started on 7/14.

Of course this could all be due to chance, but worth a shot.
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:06 PM   #44
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Interesting because I just had the same thing happen to me with my S3, infinite power loop. I didn't receive any pixelation ahead of time (what happened the last two times I pulled an S3 hard drive and rebuilt). So I walked down and got a WD-AV drive to replace it in the Tivo. I used WinMFS, built a truncated drive. This worked for about a week, the S3 then returned back to the infinite powering up loop even with a known clean drive. Curious I watched it and both times and the loops occurred after the second connection ie software download. Does anyone know what the current S3 image is and has a new system update been pushed in the last month? These issues for me started on 7/14.

Of course this could all be due to chance, but worth a shot.
For quite some time now the latest S3 software was version 11.0k

In maybe the past month or so they've started a slow rollout of 11.0m

I have no idea if this has anything to do with your troubles, but I would suggest you verify that there's nothing wrong with your power supply.
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:29 PM   #45
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Interesting because I just had the same thing happen to me with my S3, infinite power loop. I didn't receive any pixelation ahead of time (what happened the last two times I pulled an S3 hard drive and rebuilt). So I walked down and got a WD-AV drive to replace it in the Tivo. I used WinMFS, built a truncated drive. This worked for about a week, the S3 then returned back to the infinite powering up loop even with a known clean drive. Curious I watched it and both times and the loops occurred after the second connection ie software download. Does anyone know what the current S3 image is and has a new system update been pushed in the last month? These issues for me started on 7/14.

Of course this could all be due to chance, but worth a shot.
After re-installing the drive and re-connecting all the external cables, I've gotten the TiVo to reboot and run. It started out slow as hell compared to how it ran before it acted as though the hard drive was trashed.

Even though the performance was slow, I was able to access many of the previously recorded programs. There were no problems except for the slow response.

Then after about 20 minutes I tried to reconnect with the network.

It was a bad move on my part. After a few minutes I got a green screen telling me that the receiver had encountered a "serious problem" and was attempting to restart. IT added that I should not attempt to restart the receiver myself, and that if it was still stuck in this mode I should contact "customer support."

After an hour it's still locked up in this mode, doing nothing as far as I can tell.

At this point, the software version is:

11.0K-01-2-648

No date is given.

I still do not know what caused the original hangup during booting. What little I do know is that uninstalling the drive, running diagnostics which gave me ambiguous results, and re-installing the drive resulted in this somewhat successful startup sequence once I reconnected everything.
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Old 08-21-2013, 06:28 PM   #46
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...
but I would suggest you verify that there's nothing wrong with your power supply.
Visual inspection of the caps and the underlying circuit board didn't indicate any problems.

The results of the Quick Test, which was performed in a PC with a different power supply, suggest problems that are internal to the drive. Unfortunately I'm not adept enough with electronics to try to verify PS performance with DVMs.

Since yesterday I've had mixed success trying to restart the S3 with the drive installed. Sometimes it finishes the boot, sometimes it stays stuck in "Welcome!". When it does finish the boot, response is slow and infrequently results in the GSOD (Green Screen of Death) that says "Your TiVo receiver has encountered a severe error and is attempting recovery."

Last night the S3 recovered from the GSOD by itself for whatever reason. I could accecss a number of randomly selected recordings in the "Now Playing List" - at least for a while. All the time I was doing this, the drive made loud clicking noises (as it did during the Quick Test on the PC) and the response was slow.

Based on the experience with running the Quick Test on the drive using a different PS, I think it's most likely a problem that's internal to the drive.

Before I trash it though, I'm going to wait for the responses from TiVo and WDC customer support.

Thanks for your time and input,
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Old 08-22-2013, 04:33 AM   #47
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Visual inspection of the caps and the underlying circuit board didn't indicate any problems.

The results of the Quick Test, which was performed in a PC with a different power supply, suggest problems that are internal to the drive. Unfortunately I'm not adept enough with electronics to try to verify PS performance with DVMs.

Since yesterday I've had mixed success trying to restart the S3 with the drive installed. Sometimes it finishes the boot, sometimes it stays stuck in "Welcome!". When it does finish the boot, response is slow and infrequently results in the GSOD (Green Screen of Death) that says "Your TiVo receiver has encountered a severe error and is attempting recovery."

Last night the S3 recovered from the GSOD by itself for whatever reason. I could accecss a number of randomly selected recordings in the "Now Playing List" - at least for a while. All the time I was doing this, the drive made loud clicking noises (as it did during the Quick Test on the PC) and the response was slow.

Based on the experience with running the Quick Test on the drive using a different PS, I think it's most likely a problem that's internal to the drive.

Before I trash it though, I'm going to wait for the responses from TiVo and WDC customer support.

Thanks for your time and input,
That drive needs to be copied to another drive right now, 'cause it aint' got long to live.
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Old 08-22-2013, 03:26 PM   #48
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That drive needs to be copied to another drive right now, 'cause it aint' got long to live.
I have the space for it on a few of my PC HDDs but don't know how to make copies from a non-Windows file system. I'll check the Ultimate Boot CD to see if there's some sort of copy utility there.

I remember being able to access the S3's web server at one time but there was no efficient way to directly download the files via the LAN. The best I could do was copy individual recorded programs as *.TIVO files, which were highly compressed and unwatchable in HD.

That was a long time ago though. Are there ways to download S3 recordings via LAN these days?
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Old 08-22-2013, 11:06 PM   #49
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I have the space for it on a few of my PC HDDs but don't know how to make copies from a non-Windows file system. I'll check the Ultimate Boot CD to see if there's some sort of copy utility there.

I remember being able to access the S3's web server at one time but there was no efficient way to directly download the files via the LAN. The best I could do was copy individual recorded programs as *.TIVO files, which were highly compressed and unwatchable in HD.

That was a long time ago though. Are there ways to download S3 recordings via LAN these days?
As far as I know there's no way to copy shows any faster than one .tivo file at a time, but the quality shouldn't be any less once the file is copied back to another TiVo.

I watch television on a television, so I've never paid any attention to how it looked playing on a PC.

But when I was talking about copying the drive, I meant "Xeroxing" it to another hard drive that would replace it in the TiVo, or at least serve as a place to save the "Xerox" of the drive until you could then "Xerox" it to the replacement drive of your choice.

Do you have another hard drive around at least as big as the one in the TiVo, and with nothing on it that needs saving?
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:55 AM   #50
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I have the space for it on a few of my PC HDDs but don't know how to make copies from a non-Windows file system. I'll check the Ultimate Boot CD to see if there's some sort of copy utility there.

I remember being able to access the S3's web server at one time but there was no efficient way to directly download the files via the LAN. The best I could do was copy individual recorded programs as *.TIVO files, which were highly compressed and unwatchable in HD.

That was a long time ago though. Are there ways to download S3 recordings via LAN these days?
Alan,

Not sure what you were using to transfer the shows before but as Unitron mentioned there's no difference in the quality of the .TiVo file when transferred to a PC and either watched there or transferred back to the same or another TiVo via TiVo Desktop or pytivo. Sounds like you were transcoding the file at some how (mobile format perhaps?).

In terms of making a copy of the drive, you should be able to use the Windows program DvrBARS to make a copy to your PC if you have enough disk space available that could be restored to another hard drive.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=503261

Scott
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Old 08-25-2013, 08:11 AM   #51
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In terms of making a copy of the drive, you should be able to use the Windows program DvrBARS to make a copy to your PC if you have enough disk space available that could be restored to another hard drive.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=503261
If you use DvrBARS I would recommend using the Modified Full backup mode in your case. That way you'll keep all of your recordings without wasting the disk space to back up unused sectors.

It will continue if it hits a bad spot, but it pops up an error message message every time and you may have to babysit the process.
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