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Old 08-12-2013, 05:10 PM   #1
maintainin
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Tivo premiere keeps rebooting

I have a TiVo premiere that's a few months old that I keep finding rebooting. It hasn't done it yet while I've been watching tv with it. Like last night I turned on the tv and it was stuck on the almost there screen. I had to unplug it and replug back in and then it would boot up normally. Came home at lunch today and noticed the green light was on as well and sure enough I turn on the tv and its at the almost there screen again. Just sat there until I cycled power. It's been doing this for about the past week. Any ideas on what might be causing this and how to troubelshoot? The same model in the living room runs fine.
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Old 08-12-2013, 06:06 PM   #2
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Does your cable company require a Tuning Adapter?
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Old 08-12-2013, 06:10 PM   #3
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No, I it doesn't. I ran kick start 54 with no problem and am now on kick start 57. I says it ran into a wserious problem and is now trying to fix. Says it will take about three hours. So I guess it found something? Anybody know what it is trying to fix?
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Old 08-12-2013, 07:29 PM   #4
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Maybe not, that is what KS57 does it sets the error flag that forces the system diagnostics and the message. This is similar to what Windows does when not the PC was not shut down properly.

Try running for a while without any external devices Network adapter or Keyboard remote. If you have an external hard drive check the connections and swap the SATA cable end for end.

How is the unit powered could there be any problems with the outlet causing momentary power issues.
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Old 08-12-2013, 08:28 PM   #5
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Well I left while the KS 57 was running and am back a couple hours later and the regular TV is back up so I guess it completed and did its thing???

It was just plugged into a surge protector with two other devices. A tv and PS3. I went and bought a UPS from best buy and just put it on it. Will report back and tell what happens.
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Old 08-12-2013, 09:20 PM   #6
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Quote:
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Well I left while the KS 57 was running and am back a couple hours later and the regular TV is back up so I guess it completed and did its thing???
.
Yep, but keep an eye on it. If anything seems slightly 'off', then it might be a good idea to take the hard drive and run the manufactures diagnostic on it.
If you catch it in the early stages of failing, you might be able to save your recordings.
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Old 08-12-2013, 09:23 PM   #7
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It just did it again. So adding a ups solved nothing. It only does it when you aren't watching tv. What would cause that?

And what do you mean about running the manufacturers diagnostic on the hard drive? Are you telling me I'm going to have to open up a 3 month old tivo and remove the hard drive and go hook it to my pc and test it?

I really don't care about the content on it.

I seem to remember a software update not too long before this started happening. I wonder if that could be something that's causing it
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Old 08-12-2013, 09:28 PM   #8
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Ok so now I reboot it and now its saying its installing an update.....
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Old 08-13-2013, 12:20 AM   #9
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I'm suspecting it might be network related. Ive had my network cable unplugged for the last couple of hours and the tivo hasnt rebooted again. Anybody know if these tivos don't play nice connected to 5 port gigabit switches or the like? Or some other network traffic that might cause this? I have a cat 6 cable running from the router in my living room to a 5 port netgear gigabit switch in the bedroom. My tivo, ps3 and a roku are connected to the switch. I'm going to leave the network cable unplugged overnight and see what the tivo does.
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Old 08-13-2013, 09:25 AM   #10
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There are two things that can go wrong with a tivo (primarily). hard drive, which is my first inclination here, or power supply, which can have a variety of different issues.

I would do what steve614 indicates. If there is a drive problem, I would use this as an opportunity to upgrade to a larger drive. If the drive tests good, check out the PS.
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Old 08-13-2013, 10:14 AM   #11
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If it is trying to install an update, it is quite possible that the update is failing and it reschedules the reboot for after hours and when someone is NOT watching tv. Exactly what the OP is seeing.

How to fix it? Don't know, but sure sounds like a failed update scenario.
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Old 08-13-2013, 01:40 PM   #12
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It just did it again. So adding a ups solved nothing.
That was probably obvious. Normal power for a Tivo is even when incandescent bulbs dim to 50% intensity. Is your voltage dropping that low? Only then would a UPS do anything useful.

Are spikes exceeding 330 volts entering on 120 volt power. If not, then a surge protector does nothing; remains inert.

Your symptoms are classic of a defective power supply inside the Tivo. A problem that is best identified (temporary made more consistent) when the room is closer to 100 degrees F (a normal temperature for all working electronics and a temperature that quickly identified defective electronics).

Trying to measure those voltages will only void its warranty. Your symptoms are classic of defective voltages. Defective voltages means it will work for long periods; and then crash with different and strange symptoms. Nothing on an AC power cord would solve that defect.

Another problem can (in rare cases) cause strange symptoms. Is cable properly earthed where it enters the building? If not, sometimes undesirable currents to flow. Not likely. But inspected anyway because it is so easy, essential to human safety, and can create problems that really confuse you.
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Old 08-13-2013, 01:51 PM   #13
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That was probably obvious. Normal power for a Tivo is even when incandescent bulbs dim to 50% intensity. Is your voltage dropping that low? Only then would a UPS do anything useful.

Are spikes exceeding 330 volts entering on 120 volt power. If not, then a surge protector does nothing; remains inert.

Your symptoms are classic of a defective power supply inside the Tivo. A problem that is best identified (temporary made more consistent) when the room is closer to 100 degrees F (a normal temperature for all working electronics and a temperature that quickly identified defective electronics).

Trying to measure those voltages will only void its warranty. Your symptoms are classic of defective voltages. Defective voltages means it will work for long periods; and then crash with different and strange symptoms. Nothing on an AC power cord would solve that defect.

Another problem can (in rare cases) cause strange symptoms. Is cable properly earthed where it enters the building? If not, sometimes undesirable currents to flow. Not likely. But inspected anyway because it is so easy, essential to human safety, and can create problems that really confuse you.
You are neglecting his statement above that it tried to install an update.

His symptom is very similar to the Tivo trying to install it, failing, and setting up a retry later, and doesnt reboot if he is watching it.

But whatever you think
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Old 08-13-2013, 02:05 PM   #14
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You are neglecting his statement above that it tried to install an update.
That is one of many stange behaviors created when DC voltages exist but remain out of spec. Sometimes (rare but it has happened), a bad voltage even caused update software to think it was a different model - update the wrong software. Nothing makes sense and nothing is known until DC voltages are stable and in spec.

For anyone to say more requires hard facts. Those symptoms describe a wide variety of problems. But every symptom is also common to marginal (and therefore completely defective) DC voltages.

Last edited by westom : 08-13-2013 at 02:19 PM.
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Old 08-13-2013, 02:32 PM   #15
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I seem to remember a software update not too long before this started happening. I wonder if that could be something that's causing it
The OP did not directly correlate the spring software update to the issue. Unless this has been happening since May, which is both when it was purchased and when the software was updated, it is merely circumstantial.
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Old 08-13-2013, 07:11 PM   #16
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Power supply does not explain why it's only done it while the tv is off. It would be one hell of a coincidence if it just happens to happen so far with the tv off. I watched television on it for a few hours last night without one hiccup. And it has not rebooted one time while I have have been watching it since this whole thing started. HOWEVER, within minutes of rebooting it and turning off the tv it would reboot and stay stuck at the almost there screen. Or within minutes of turning off the tv after viewing it would reboot and stay stuck on that almost there screen. I called tivo earlier. They ran me thru and made sure my signal strength and SNR are good which they are. She then wanted me to run thru various tests with things unplugged and then got off the phone and told me to call back if i found something. First she wanted me to unhook the coax, Internet and cable card and watch some recorded video and see what happens. Everything went fine. Box didnt reboot during TV off. Then I hooked up coax cable, watched some more recorded video, box is fine on and off. Then pushed cable card back in and repeated. Everything is still fine. The only thing I haven't hooked back up is Internet. The tv has been off for a couple hours now and it hasn't rebooted since I last pushed the cablecard back in. I'm going to hook up the Internet after dinner and see what happens.

Id also like to know why it hangs at the almost there screen when it does it owns reboot but when I manually cycle power it reboots all the way. That seems to me like its rebooting not because of a loss of power but something else is causing it to and it's hanging.
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Old 08-14-2013, 08:02 AM   #17
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Id also like to know why it hangs at the almost there screen when it does it owns reboot but when I manually cycle power it reboots all the way. That seems to me like its rebooting not because of a loss of power but something else is causing it to and it's hanging.
This is the behavior of a Western Digital hard drive that has an idle timer setting too short for the Tivo to boot up properly from a soft boot*.
But you didn't say if you have replaced/upgraded the hard drive.
If you still have the original hard drive in the Tivo, I don't know what the problem could be, except maybe that you have some sort of software corruption.
You might try performing a Kickstart 52.
http://www.weaknees.com/tivo-kickstart-codes.php


* Soft boot = resetting from the menus or Tivo rebooting on its own.
Hard boot = pulling the plug.

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Old 08-19-2013, 03:51 PM   #18
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I will try the kickstart 52. Sorry I didn't get back sooner. I was out of town a few days. I've come to find out that no matter what is plugged in the TiVo will eventually reboot. But still, it will only reboot if I am not actively watching tv as far as I can tell. I left the tv on all day the other day and it didn't skip a beat. Turn it off and come check on it later. Stuck on reboot.

So anyway, I call back tech support and now I really want to bitch. [u]TIVO HAS GOT TO HAVE THE WORST WARRANTY PLAN IN THE BUSINESS.[/U] Full warranty is only 90 days and after that I have to pay $50 for an exchange. And I just happen to be right after 90 days. F*CK YOU!

I'm mot exchanging the damn thing just out of principle. I will keep watching the damn thing even if I have to reboot it every time. And after my year is up on both of these this might be the last time I ever own TiVo's.
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Old 08-19-2013, 04:14 PM   #19
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You don't need to be so crass with us. We know it stinks when a tivo has a problem, and we have been the ones advising you.

In prior threads, it seems 90 days is fairly typical for warranties, but certainly not on the high end of anything. If you used a CCard, that may help, and if you called Tivo prior to the 90th day then you have cause for action that they were made aware timely.

$50 sounds like a fair deal to me, but I would also probably just figure it out and fix it out of principle.
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Old 08-19-2013, 04:27 PM   #20
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I apologize if my language offends anybody, but I believe its complete crap. A full warranty on any piece of electronics that is only 90 days is too short. Especially if that device contains a hard drive. Way to stand behind your product TiVo.
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Old 08-19-2013, 05:54 PM   #21
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Here's another test scenario to try.

Put the Tivo into stand by when you are done watching.
Live TV will (should) bring it out of stand by when you are ready to watch again.

If doing that keeps it from rebooting, that's all little less hassle for you.
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Old 08-19-2013, 10:31 PM   #22
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Fingers crossed, but I believe the kickstart 52 has fixed it. Hasn't reboot yet in 4 hours since I performed it. So it looks like it was some sort of corruption. Which makes sense I guess. It explains why it would only do it while not viewing. Trying to do whatever it does while the tv is off and kept screwing itself up.
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Old 08-20-2013, 12:31 PM   #23
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Well, kickstart 52 turned out not to work, either. Putting it in standby doesn't prevent it from rebooting either. So I guess I'll just power cycle it every time I want to watch tv. No big deal, it only gets watched for a couple hours a few times a week anyway. What sucks though is I cannot schedule it to record anything.

But I will not be giving TiVo any more money to fix their 3 1/2 month old product.
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Old 08-20-2013, 01:51 PM   #24
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No big deal, it only gets watched for a couple hours a few times a week anyway. What sucks though is I cannot schedule it to record anything.
So maybe you might reread what the design engineer noted long ago?
Quote:
Those symptoms describe a wide variety of problems. But every symptom is also common to marginal (and therefore completely defective) DC voltages.

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Old 08-20-2013, 09:40 PM   #25
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I don't have a problem with opening it up. Are they any specific checks i can do to determine if its a power supply problem? I have an electronics background and am comfortable checking voltages.

Also, as far as the hard drive.....it was mentioned to run mfr diagnostics on it. Any instructions on what to do? Thanks

Last edited by maintainin : 08-20-2013 at 09:52 PM.
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Old 08-20-2013, 11:23 PM   #26
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I don't have a problem with opening it up. Are they any specific checks i can do to determine if its a power supply problem? I have an electronics background and am comfortable checking voltages.

Also, as far as the hard drive.....it was mentioned to run mfr diagnostics on it. Any instructions on what to do? Thanks
If the problem started before the 90 days was up, you need to find someone who knows just as much about your situation as you do but is capable of remaining calm and diplomatic, but firm, to discuss this directly with TiVo.

There is much less chance of an S4 having power supply problems than an S2 or S3, especially so early in it's life, and the failed update scenario sounds the most plausible, because they tend to do the rebooting in the middle of the night when there's nothing scheduled to record and there hasn't been any remote control activity for some time.
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Old 08-20-2013, 11:50 PM   #27
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I don't have a problem with opening it up. Are they any specific checks i can do to determine if its a power supply problem? ...
Also, ..... it was mentioned to run mfr diagnostics on it.
Manufacturer diagnostics are typically designed to operate on a PC. The hard drive could be temporarily connected as a slave drive (or maybe a master) on a PC. Then boot the system from manufacturer diagnostics typically on a CD-Rom or memory stick. Diagnostics either obtained from the manufacturer web site. Or from Bootdisk.com.

Tivo power supplies are typically simple. A separate board often with a cable to the electronics board. Simple to identify each DC voltage. Then measure each with the meter. Of course, 5 and 12 volts will also appear on a cable that powers the drive. Post numbers for each voltage to three digits.
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Old 08-21-2013, 12:17 AM   #28
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Manufacturer diagnostics are typically designed to operate on a PC. The hard drive could be temporarily connected as a slave drive (or maybe a master) on a PC. Then boot the system from manufacturer diagnostics typically on a CD-Rom or memory stick. Diagnostics either obtained from the manufacturer web site. Or from Bootdisk.com.

Tivo power supplies are typically simple. A separate board often with a cable to the electronics board. Simple to identify each DC voltage. Then measure each with the meter. Of course, 5 and 12 volts will also appear on a cable that powers the drive. Post numbers for each voltage to three digits.
5.1v reading is 5.09

12v reading is 12.29
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Old 08-21-2013, 12:19 AM   #29
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If the problem started before the 90 days was up, you need to find someone who knows just as much about your situation as you do but is capable of remaining calm and diplomatic, but firm, to discuss this directly with TiVo.

There is much less chance of an S4 having power supply problems than an S2 or S3, especially so early in it's life, and the failed update scenario sounds the most plausible, because they tend to do the rebooting in the middle of the night when there's nothing scheduled to record and there hasn't been any remote control activity for some time.
OK, so how do you solve the failed update? I've performed all the kick starts pertaining to any software. Clear and reset the whole system and start over?
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:24 AM   #30
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OK, so how do you solve the failed update? I've performed all the kick starts pertaining to any software. Clear and reset the whole system and start over?
I would only do that as a last resort, especially if you want to try and save the recordings.

I would first test the drive with the manufacture's diagnostic tool, on a PC.

Download the Ultimate Boot CD iso and burn it to a CD.
http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/download.html

On your PC, disconnect any hard drives you don't want to test, just to be safe. It's not really necessary because you can select which drive you want to test, but it's easy insurance if something goes wrong.

Hook the Tivo drive into the computer. A direct SATA connection will be faster, but a USB adapter will also work.

Boot the computer with the Ultimate Boot CD you previously burned (you may have to go into the computer's BIOS to enable this) and navigate through the menus to find the WD data lifeguard utility and run the long test.

This should give you a definitive answer if the hard drive is going bad.
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