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Old 08-03-2013, 01:38 PM   #1
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Stuck at "Welcome, Powering Up"

One of my S3's apparently rebooted and is stuck at "Welcome, Powering Up". I've hard rebooted a couple of times - nothing is connected to the S3. Do I assume it's the HD or might it be something else? Thanks.
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Old 08-03-2013, 03:22 PM   #2
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You may want to run the manufacturers software on the drive.
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Old 08-03-2013, 04:03 PM   #3
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Lots of power supply failures due to "capacitor disease" in Series 3 boxes. Check for (even slightly) bulging tops of the capacitor "cans", especially the largest ones. If possible measure the voltages under load of the yellow (12 V+/-10%), red (5V+/-5%) and orange (3.3V) leads from the power supply, relative to the black leads. If possible stick thin voltmeter probes in the back of the large connector on the motherboard that carries all the PS leads in. BEWARE OF SHOCK HAZARD with case open and plugged in.

Here is a photo of what bulging looks like:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...18#post9396518

You can replace the bad caps for a few bucks if you can solder. Here is the parts list for the model 652 with a link to the list for the 648:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...22#post9712622
You can try just replacing the caps that show bulging or do preventative maintenance by replacing them all. You might be able to get a local electronics shop to do the replacements. You must get premium, Low-ESR, high temp (105C) caps.

You can buy replacement PS'es from weaknees.com for $100 but the quality varies with TiVo model. Some are refurbished. Some are just "pulls". Another option is buy the exact same tivo model cheap (i.e., without lifetime) from eBay and scavenge the power supply -- taking the chance it has, or soon will have, capacitor disease.
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Old 08-03-2013, 05:09 PM   #4
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Thanks. I have a spare (new) drive that I purchased years ago as a contingency (I had to replace an S3 drive once). The power supply is not ticking so I'll hold off on that. I'll probably try a new drive and if that doesn't work I'll replace the unit (I have a premier and another S3, so no immediate urgency). Thanks again.
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Old 08-04-2013, 09:16 AM   #5
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Thanks. I have a spare (new) drive that I purchased years ago as a contingency (I had to replace an S3 drive once). The power supply is not ticking so I'll hold off on that. I'll probably try a new drive and if that doesn't work I'll replace the unit (I have a premier and another S3, so no immediate urgency). Thanks again.
PS not ticking means very little. Look for bulging caps. If you find them, they (or the entire PS) must be replaced, regardless of whether you also have a bad HDD.

It sounds like you are aware of how to prepare a HDD drive but new options for that have emerged in the last year or two, e.g., jmfs. You might want to do some searching here, and look at the "Drive Expansion .... " sticky thread in this forum.
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Old 08-04-2013, 02:08 PM   #6
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One of my S3's apparently rebooted and is stuck at "Welcome, Powering Up". I've hard rebooted a couple of times - nothing is connected to the S3. Do I assume it's the HD or might it be something else? Thanks.
If it doesn't get beyond that first screen to the "few more minutes" screen, then something is preventing proper communication between the motherboard and the hard drive.

But there are several candidates for what that something might be.

Maybe the power/data combo cable has worked itself slightly loose from the drive.

Maybe there's something gone wrong with the software on the drive.

Maybe there's something gone wrong with the drive physically.

Maybe the power supply can't quite provide enough power for the drive to operate properly.

Maybe the SATA controller on the motherboard has gone bad.

You can take the drive out (leave it connected to the bracket for now) and hook it to a PC to see if it's working physically, and you can launch WinMFS and click on mfsinfo to see if the software is scrambled, and while the cover is off of the TiVo you can check on the power supply.

Got a voltmeter?
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Old 08-04-2013, 05:10 PM   #7
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thanks dlfl & unitron. No, I do not have a voltmeter
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Old 08-04-2013, 05:28 PM   #8
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No, I do not have a voltmeter
I had actually thought about taking a look around your PC tweaking site, until this.

I don't trust people who don't own a voltmeter or multi-meter to tell me how I should tweak my PC...

You may want to consider that for future reference.

EDIT/ADD: It's not like I'm trying to be a jackhole. It's just that you already have the people with the know-how at hand, and don't seem to be wanting to go with their advice. I guess all I can do, is contribute that you really should have a $5 volt-meter and check the voltages while you are in there, regardless of what you do once the case is open.

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Old 08-04-2013, 06:14 PM   #9
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You can take the drive out (leave it connected to the bracket for now) and hook it to a PC to see if it's working physically, and you can launch WinMFS and click on mfsinfo to see if the software is scrambled, and while the cover is off of the TiVo you can check on the power supply.
And while you have the drrive hooked to the PC go ahead and run Seatools or whatever manufacturer software there is for the drive. It's free which makes it a lot cheaper then buying a new drive just to test.
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Old 08-05-2013, 06:39 AM   #10
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I had actually thought about taking a look around your PC tweaking site, until this.

I don't trust people who don't own a voltmeter or multi-meter to tell me how I should tweak my PC...

You may want to consider that for future reference.

EDIT/ADD: It's not like I'm trying to be a jackhole. It's just that you already have the people with the know-how at hand, and don't seem to be wanting to go with their advice. I guess all I can do, is contribute that you really should have a $5 volt-meter and check the voltages while you are in there, regardless of what you do once the case is open.
I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
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Old 08-05-2013, 08:21 AM   #11
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Just replaced the HD and all is well. Thanks so much for taking the time to reply to my request for assistance.
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Old 08-05-2013, 11:06 AM   #12
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Just replaced the HD and all is well. Thanks so much for taking the time to reply to my request for assistance.
If you're going to continue to own computers and TiVos, you really should get a multimeter.

You can probably find one for $5 at Big Lots or Harbor Freight.
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Old 08-05-2013, 11:50 AM   #13
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Looks like we won't get our kickback from the multimeter companies for this one, eh?
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Old 08-05-2013, 01:32 PM   #14
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Looks like we won't get our kickback from the multimeter companies for this one, eh?
I get multimeters for free, or $1.99 (plus tax) from my local Harbor Freight Tools outlets.

Unlike most of their tools, they have not broken (yet). I think you have to buy the deluxe $20 model, or the $50 Super Deluxe model, to get it to break after the first two or three uses.

I still use my Fluke meter-oscilloscope-all-in-one or anything that I really want to be sure of, though... It's just so bulky, to use as a battery tester, or rudimentary PS voltage checker.

I can't believe he didn't understand what I said... Maybe he only came here to lure people to his site and faked the whole problem?
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Old 08-05-2013, 02:52 PM   #15
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I can't believe he didn't understand what I said... Maybe he only came here to lure people to his site and faked the whole problem?
Yeah, with almost 1600 posts he just came here to get some traffic to his site? Realistically, the tweaks he is associated with are likely all software based and the ability to tweak windows software doesn't usually require a multimeter.

Nevertheless, he missed a golden opportunity to check the tivo power supply for bulging capacitors and to check the voltage from the power supply when he opened the hood to swap out the hard drive.
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Old 08-05-2013, 03:56 PM   #16
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Yeah, with almost 1600 posts he just came here to get some traffic to his site? Realistically, the tweaks he is associated with are likely all software based and the ability to tweak windows software doesn't usually require a multimeter.

Nevertheless, he missed a golden opportunity to check the tivo power supply for bulging capacitors and to check the voltage from the power supply when he opened the hood to swap out the hard drive.
Stranger things have happened. Every post is potential visitors.

I forgot to put an ironic emoticon at the end, so as to not be taken seriously about it. My bad.
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Old 08-05-2013, 04:13 PM   #17
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Stranger things have happened. Every post is potential visitors.

I forgot to put an ironic emoticon at the end, so as to not be taken seriously about it. My bad.
You're an idiot (ironic emoticon).
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Old 08-05-2013, 04:17 PM   #18
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Yeah, with almost 1600 posts he just came here to get some traffic to his site? Realistically, the tweaks he is associated with are likely all software based and the ability to tweak windows software doesn't usually require a multimeter.

Nevertheless, he missed a golden opportunity to check the tivo power supply for bulging capacitors and to check the voltage from the power supply when he opened the hood to swap out the hard drive.
Please don't take this the wrong way - no offense is intended - but I've been working with computers since the early 1980's and I'm pretty good. I can diagnose a bad power supply from symptoms alone 99% of the time (on a computer, not a tivo ). Still, I'm more of a software guy and not a hardware guy - I depend on my fellow staff members to handle the tough hardware issues .

And by the way, tweaks.com is not my site - I'm simply the admin - have been for about 10 years. Our traffic is virtually non existent these days and I do most of my posting at "competing" support forums. When I joined this forum 10 years ago I asked the site admin if it was okay to add the signature I use. I'm not trying to lure anyone anywhere.
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Old 08-05-2013, 04:33 PM   #19
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You're an idiot (ironic emoticon).
Careful now, name-calling is frowned upon.

I once had a supervisor who after hiring me, asked if I had any dogs. When I said no, he said he'd have never hired me, if he'd known, as he didn't trust any man without at least one dog.

I told him I didn't trust any man who didn't own a multimeter.

One time (of a few), equipment working without stability would become an urgent issue. As engineers would stand there with their clipboards in one hand and their "junk" in their other hand, or be running through computer simulations, I'd read the power supply "minimum load requirements", check the loads, add a resistor or three, and voilą, normality was restored!

I don't care how many tweaks or wild guesses they might have tried, they'd probably have still be scratching their heads, if a simple multimeter hadn't come into the mix.

So I often say, "never trust a man without a multimeter". Track me down and sue me if it bothers you so much.
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Old 08-05-2013, 04:46 PM   #20
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I can diagnose a bad power supply from symptoms alone 99% of the time (on a computer, not a tivo ).
You should replace the guy who plays "The Mentalist", then. With that kind diagnostic accuracy, without the proper tools, you're either lying, outright bragging a complete fallacy, or you are a switchmode savant.

I know which one my money is on.

As much fun as it's been, I'm due to do my routine TiVo inspections and maintenance.

I'd also put money on your 99% symptoms-only diagnostic rate coming under some scrutiny, once I'm gone.

More advice: Most pretexting that begins with any form of "no offense intended..." will be taken offensively.

Good luck with your site.
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Old 08-05-2013, 05:41 PM   #21
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Speaking as an electrician, I would not be caught dead with a cheap multi-meter.
You usually get what you pay for. Spend the money to get a GOOD one.
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Old 08-05-2013, 06:27 PM   #22
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Speaking as an electrician, I would not be caught dead with a cheap multi-meter.
......
Or ... maybe you would, especially if working on a high voltage circuit.
(Think about it. )
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Old 08-05-2013, 07:53 PM   #23
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Or ... maybe you would, especially if working on a high voltage circuit.
(Think about it. )
Apparently, nobody has anything better to do....

Remember the story about the guy who decided to push the probes through his skin, on the Ohm setting, and killed himself? That could happen with any meter, just add idiot.

Here's how it always goes, when suggesting somebody go buy a "decent" meter: They say "It's not worth the money for the one time I'll use it", or otherwise say how it's not worth the money.

BESIDES: The whole part about use of the meter in this instance, was on low-voltage, low amperage OUTPUT rails.

If I were going to use a lightweight, cheap, meter, on high voltage, I'd simply use a GOOD pair of test leads/probes.

Sigh...
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Old 08-05-2013, 10:22 PM   #24
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Falls in the category of information without explanation. Same reason gauges in the car were replaced with idiot lights. What good is a multimeter to one not versed on what it's saying? And what it says, means...?
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