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Old 06-03-2014, 10:00 PM   #1
eboydog
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Clear and Reset when selling a used TiVo - Yes or No?

Is it necessary to preform a clear and reset when selling a used TiVo? I'm selling a Roamio that has a rather extensive collection of recordings, mostly premium channel movies.

When a Tivo is transferred to another account, are the existing recordings transferable when a new account and MAK is assigned to the box or do the recordings maintain their prior MAK (ie, is the MAK assigned to the box or the recordings?). Would the reassignment of a used TiVo take on the new owners info with no restriction of the prior recordings?

I can see issues were login info to NetFlix, Amazon could be a issue but one can just be sure to logout of Netflix and un-authorize the Tivo at Amazon. Network settings should be OK, while I assign static addresses to my TiVo's, I do so based on MAC address at the router rather than on the box's themselves.

While I don't have any issues with basically handing over my collection of movie recordings is there anything I might be missing or liable for if I don't do a clear and reset? As I see it the new owner could just to guided setup and be good to go right unless of course they prefer to start from scratch.
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Old 06-03-2014, 10:21 PM   #2
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As long as any premium services are unlinked from the Tivo, doing a C&DE is just a waste of your time.
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Old 06-04-2014, 06:52 AM   #3
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Doing a C&DE probably isn't a bad idea if you're selling the Tivo. The new owner is going to have to rerun guided setup anyway and will probably have to delete all of your season passes. Doing a C&DE deletes any personal setup and preferences as well as any personal info that might be hanging around.

As far as being a waste of your time, that all depends if you plan on sitting around watching it while it takes place. Start it up and walk away.
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Old 06-04-2014, 11:34 PM   #4
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A knowledgeable new owner would be able to take a non-CD&E'ed TiVo and change the things necessary (ZIP code, cable co, etc) without having to do a full Guided Setup, and since it's not absolutely impossible to get stuck in GS with no way out, perhaps it's better not to subject them to that admittedly small risk, and they might enjoy seeing what programming from another market looks like.

You could reset the IP to DHCP and let the new owner leave it like that (or change it if they know how) so as to avoid any problems with it being able to see their router.

I'm assuming one can disassociate the particular TiVo from any kind of pay TV setup (NetFlix, Amazon, whatever) so they can't watch on your dime, and you might want to change the name from "Snugglebunny's Lair" back to something like "746_TiVo, but otherwise there's no real personal info on the TiVo is there?

Unless post S3 setup includes having to enter your SSN and nobody told me.
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Old 06-05-2014, 12:24 AM   #5
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I won't buy a lifetimed TiVo from craigslist that has been had a total reset and not had another set up done, because I can't see what kind of service it has. I can call TiVo and ask them if the box has lifetime, but would much rather do that, AND see it on the box when it is running. Then I can play around with it too, to make sure the box is working OK. If I buy it off of eBay it is not as big as deal, as I have a guaranty that I can get my money back if any problems develop. And I like to be able to immediately watch something on TV to that is recorded, not have to wait till I have my recordings take place.

I did buy a used Tivo and bought lifetime for it and it still had Netflix on it so I could watch that.
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Old 06-05-2014, 10:55 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.unnatural View Post
Doing a C&DE probably isn't a bad idea if you're selling the Tivo. The new owner is going to have to rerun guided setup anyway and will probably have to delete all of your season passes. Doing a C&DE deletes any personal setup and preferences as well as any personal info that might be hanging around.

As far as being a waste of your time, that all depends if you plan on sitting around watching it while it takes place. Start it up and walk away.
Even the moments used to get a C&DE started (as well as the time spent thinking about it) are a waste of time because it does nothing for you. You use time and gain nothing in the process.
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Old 06-05-2014, 11:45 AM   #7
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It's not a question of how much time you're wasting or even if it's worth doing. I've bought used Tivos that I ended up doing a C&DE myself simply because it was easier than having to delete everything manually, such as countless episodes of The Dog Whisperer on the hard drive. I really don't care what others have recorded nor do I take it into account when it comes to what I want to watch or record. I would have appreciated the fact that someone bothered to do a C&DE prior to selling me the Tivo so I wouldn't have to do it to clear out all their crap.

The importance of performing this task obviously varies from person to person. Do it or don't do it. If you buy a used Tivo on ebay and it isn't what the seller says it is, ebay will refund your full purchase price plus shipping. You'll be stuck with return shipping costs, but that's the price of doing business online. If you buy one on Craigs List then you should be prepared to check it out before you hand over the cash. I view performing a C&DE prior to the sale as a courtesy and not a necessity. If having the Tivo's service status available is important then take a screen capture or a digital photo before you wipe it. The info on the screen will confirm it's the same Tivo.
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Old 06-05-2014, 01:45 PM   #8
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I'm not bashful, but I don't care for them to see my previously deleted recordings and such. I do C&DE's just as a friendly service to the buyer. I personally wouldn't want a box littered with their personal recordings, their thumbs up/down, settings, etc. I'd rather have a clean install that's as close to "new" as possible, so I give them the same courtesy.

If I have a spare remote I haven't used, I might throw that in too since I'm not crazy about using remotes that have been who-knows-where. I'm not a germophobe per se, but remotes and keyboards are legitimately among the nastiest things in the house. Ok, maybe I'm a slight germophobe.

All optional, I'm just nice.

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Old 06-05-2014, 05:58 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by mr.unnatural View Post
It's not a question of how much time you're wasting
I don't disagree. Wasting your time is wasting your time, no matter how much or how little is wasted. fwiw, you're the one that brought up the issue of how much time can be wasted.

Quote:
or even if it's worth doing.
That is 100% wrong because whether or not a C&DE is worth it, is exactly what the OP is asking about.


Quote:
I've bought used Tivos that I ended up doing a C&DE myself simply because it was easier than having to delete everything manually, such as countless episodes of The Dog Whisperer on the hard drive. I really don't care what others have recorded nor do I take it into account when it comes to what I want to watch or record. I would have appreciated the fact that someone bothered to do a C&DE prior to selling me the Tivo so I wouldn't have to do it to clear out all their crap.
So you want others to waste their time for you. How thoughtful of you.
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Old 06-06-2014, 04:32 AM   #10
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You'll be stuck with return shipping costs, but that's the price of doing business online. .
I buy a lot on eBay and I have never paid return shipping when I bought something what wasn't 'right'. I have had to fight sometimes, but eBay always gave me a mailer to send it back. I only lost my time due to the seller being an idiot. And once when I complained to eBay about that, eBay gave me a $20 credit.
It doesn't matter if the seller say 'buyer pays return shipping', eBay still sent me the mailer.
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Old 06-06-2014, 07:47 AM   #11
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I buy a lot on eBay and I have never paid return shipping when I bought something what wasn't 'right'. I have had to fight sometimes, but eBay always gave me a mailer to send it back. I only lost my time due to the seller being an idiot. And once when I complained to eBay about that, eBay gave me a $20 credit.
It doesn't matter if the seller say 'buyer pays return shipping', eBay still sent me the mailer.
You must have screamed louder than me because I've always been stuck paying return shipping. It probably depends on who you're buying from. If it's a business that sells through ebay then I can see them paying the shipping. If you buy from individuals then chances are you pay for returning it. I haven't had to go through this process in quite a while so maybe ebay has changed their policy on this.

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That is 100% wrong because whether or not a C&DE is worth it, is exactly what the OP is asking about.
Actually, the OP asked if it was necessary and not what the value is in doing it. The truth is that it is not necessary, but some people might appreciate it.

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So you want others to waste their time for you. How thoughtful of you.
I would appreciate it as a courtesy and I have extended the same to everyone I've sold Tivos to. You make it sound like it's some major production that will take an unreasonable amount of time. In reality, it only takes you as long as it takes to press a couple of buttons on the remote and then just let it do its thing while you go about your business. It's really not that big of a deal so I don't understand what all the fuss is about.

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Old 06-06-2014, 09:55 AM   #12
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When I sell a used TiVo I do a C&D all then set up the TiVo, tag don't record suggestions, put in the 30 sec skip, set the output resolution low, then set up the TiVo as if I was going to move to another place. The new owner will get the TiVo and be forced to set up the unit for his/her zip code, and I will not get any E-Mails about all these recordings that are being made that the buyer did not ask for, or how to get the 30 sec skip, etc.
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Old 06-06-2014, 10:23 AM   #13
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The truth is that it is not necessary, but some people might appreciate it.
It's all about the buyer. So like I said, it does not benefit the seller at all, which makes it a waste of time.


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You make it sound like it's some major production that will take an unreasonable amount of time. In reality, it only takes you as long as it takes to press a couple of buttons on the remote and then just let it do its thing while you go about your business. It's really not that big of a deal so I don't understand what all the fuss is about.
You're the one that said "It's not a question of how much time you're wasting" so why do keep bringing up the issue of the amount of time as an argument? especially considering that that statement is an admission that time is wasted, which is all I said in the first place.
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Old 06-06-2014, 11:59 AM   #14
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I've already wasted more time in this thread than it would have taken me to do a C&DE.
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Old 06-06-2014, 01:26 PM   #15
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I've already wasted more time in this thread than it would have taken me to do a C&DE.
Yes, you have.
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Old 06-06-2014, 10:02 PM   #16
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I've already wasted more time in this thread than it would have taken me to do a C&DE.
Yeah, but this is more fun.


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Old 06-07-2014, 05:49 AM   #17
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Yeah, but this is more fun.

Yeah, except that it boggles my mind about some of things people argue about. Apparently, the time it takes to start a C&DE is far more valuable than the time spent arguing about it. Just to be clear, the time wasting issue was first raised in post #2:

Quote:
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As long as any premium services are unlinked from the Tivo, doing a C&DE is just a waste of your time.
I'll toss one other comment out there and leave it be.

If your Tivo contains recorded programs and you sell the Tivo with those programs on the drive you are technically distributing or selling copyrighted material illegally. Of course, no one will know what is actually on the Tivo except for you and the buyer so it's a judgement call as to whether you leave the recordings intact. In the grand scheme of things, nobody will care and the FBI won't come knocking on your door so let your conscience be your guide in this regard.

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Old 06-07-2014, 10:11 AM   #18
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To answer this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by eboydog View Post
When a Tivo is transferred to another account, are the existing recordings transferable when a new account and MAK is assigned to the box or do the recordings maintain their prior MAK (ie, is the MAK assigned to the box or the recordings?). Would the reassignment of a used TiVo take on the new owners info with no restriction of the prior recordings?
The MAK is assigned to the account, and is actually not associated with a recording until it's extracted. On the TiVo's disk, the recordings are encrypted with a different key that's not MAK-dependent. So, yes, the new owner gets full access to all of the existing recordings.
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Old 06-07-2014, 12:30 PM   #19
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The MAK is assigned to the account, and is actually not associated with a recording until it's extracted. On the TiVo's disk, the recordings are encrypted with a different key that's not MAK-dependent. So, yes, the new owner gets full access to all of the existing recordings.
If this were not true than a non activated TiVo would be unable to play any recordings that were already on the unit as there is no MAK on any un-activated TiVo.
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Old 06-07-2014, 04:30 PM   #20
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Shows, or perhaps just the hard drive on which they're recorded, apparently, are encoded or encrypted or locked somehow in a way that involves the TiVo Service Number, which is why you can't just move drives around from machine to machine and still play the shows.

The MAK only comes into play when you want to copy a show from a TiVo to a PC or another TiVo.
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Old 06-08-2014, 06:52 AM   #21
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Thanks for the replies, the way described was how I assumed it worked, thank you for confirming.
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Old 06-11-2014, 10:39 PM   #22
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http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=518274

Are those who insisted a C&DE was a "waste of time", happy now?
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Old 06-12-2014, 09:24 AM   #23
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The cable card pairing never crossed my mind, the c&e does more than just erasing the recordings which was the primary concern when I brought this question up, it never dawned on me that changing cards would be so difficult!

Thank you NoOneUknow!
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Old 06-12-2014, 12:08 PM   #24
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Good info. It would appear that doing a C&DE with a Tivo that has been paired with a cablecard isn't a waste of time after all. It sounds like a lot more time was wasted trying to get the Tivo up and running when it hadn't been cleared.
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:22 PM   #25
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The cable card pairing never crossed my mind, the c&e does more than just erasing the recordings which was the primary concern when I brought this question up, it never dawned on me that changing cards would be so difficult!

Thank you NoOneUknow!
I have done that in my Comcast system and never had to do a C&D all, but that just my CT Comcast system.
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Old 06-13-2014, 01:38 AM   #26
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http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=518274

Are those who insisted a C&DE was a "waste of time", happy now?
Depends on whose time you're talking about wasting.

If you're the buyer, then in some circumstances having the seller having already done it might be to your benefit.

But I'm not sure I'm seeing a benefit to the seller.
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Old 06-13-2014, 02:47 AM   #27
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Depends on whose time you're talking about wasting.

If you're the buyer, then in some circumstances having the seller having already done it might be to your benefit.

But I'm not sure I'm seeing a benefit to the seller.
The benefit is clear when you read the post from the buyer indicating the unit will be returned to the seller, if the matter doesn't get resolved to the buyer's satisfaction. (see other thread from the buyer's side)

Nobody wins, time lost, money lost, etc., if it comes to that.

I'm pretty sure it won't. I'm confident the unit just has remnants of past cablecard pairing data, and it can and will be cleared, one way, or another.

You, of all people, would know that a C&DE is a few button presses, walk away, and unplug when the setup menu is up.

If it required you to sit and watch, or actually interact once initiated, that would be a different situation.

I prefer to keep one eye on it and unplug at the reboot before it boots into guided setup. That's just my OCD nature, as you also are aware of, and a trait we seem to share...
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Old 06-13-2014, 09:58 AM   #28
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I run a C&DE and had to run. Will be back later today and should be ready for setup. I'm hopeful it will now see the cableCARD.

From the positive side, I'm really happy to see that the speed is good with navigation of the device. My last TiVO (Directv) was good, but it was sluggish. This one is very responsive and hope it remains that way.

I'll update this thread on the cableCARD result when I get back to it.

Appreciate the suggestions. I know eboydog wants to make sure what he sold me works which is greatly appreciated as he cares (seems rare nowadays!)

Hoping to be enjoying TiVo this weekend. (Pending dealing with Roamio seeing the card, but bigger pending is dealing with TWC and getting the CC/TA/TiVo all paired up!)
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Old 06-13-2014, 05:55 PM   #29
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I did a clear and delete everything. Unfortunately it still does not see the cablecard. I don't have it transferred to me yet, could that be the hangup? The odd part was after a C&DE it still had the location I picked in the last guided setup.. is that normal?
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Old 06-13-2014, 06:17 PM   #30
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I did a clear and delete everything. Unfortunately it still does not see the cablecard. I don't have it transferred to me yet, could that be the hangup? The odd part was after a C&DE it still had the location I picked in the last guided setup.. is that normal?
I'm still convinced this is partly the result of not doing a C&DE, before changing owners. YES, it's normal for the TiVo to pull whatever it can from the account the TSN is associated with. Please just do what most people do when a TiVo changes ownership: Transfer it to your own account. I'd then recommend another C&DE before moving forward, so it pulls down your account details when it boots into Guided Setup.

From the parallel thread on this (see red portion):

Quote:
Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
Clear and Reset when selling a used TiVo - Yes or No?

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=518090

I think this all could have been avoided if a C&DE had been performed.
The usual member, who I won't name, insisted a C&DE was a waste of the seller's time, enjoying the ensuing debate, in usual fashion...

There is a small chance one won't have to be done, and here's the best shot:

FIRST - Make sure the TSN is associated with the new owner's tivo.com account.

Repeat Guided Setup, from the Reboot menu, without a cablecard installed, or the coax connected, ONLY the network and power. No TA connections should be connected.

Use 00000 as the ZIP code, and use the advanced Installer Express Setup option. Select "Tiny TiVo" as the provider, and if asked about cablecards, say no, later, etc (whatever it takes to just get through).

Once the TiVo has completed downloading the new (blank) data, and made a second service connection, leave it be, until both GC and Indexing have been completed at a date & time ahead of the completion of Guided Setup (found under System Information). Make sure wireless networking is disabled.

Now, from the Reboot menu, select Clear Program Information & To Do List

Unplug the network cable (no networking at all), wait until the clearing completes, dismiss any messages about being out of guide data when the main menu comes up.

Repeat guided setup (Advanced - Installer Express, again), using correct Zip Code, plug in network (or enable other networking) when it asks how it is connected, continue setup, say "later" for cablecard and TA, when it asks. Make sure to select the correct lineup that lists your channels as you'd expect them to be with a cablecard and TA.

I recommend splitting the coax with a two-way, and running one output to the TA in, and the other to the TiVo in. If MoCA is not involved, the pass-through can be used. But, I still don't recommend it. If MoCA is in use, at all, SA/Cisco TAs require the splitter, and a PoE filter on the port going to the TA.

Worry about the cablecard FIRST, and the TA LAST.

Before moving onto the cablecard and TA, make sure you have the Serial Number of each written down, and that the cableco has the two associated with each other. This actually does matter (it's yet another "pairing" within their system, which only requires the serial numbers being correctly matched).

I won't go into the pairing, at this time. Just know that it is best to take care of one thing at a time, and not to expect immediate results. Some things can take 20 minutes to happen, and CSRs don't like waiting on the phone. Call back, if they are pressuring you, or want to keep sending hits, or start telling you to reboot things, just because they want the call to be short. Every TiVo reboot can add 20 minutes, on top of the reboot time, for the cablecard to download fresh tables.

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Last edited by nooneuknow : 06-13-2014 at 06:27 PM.
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