TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs
TiVo Community
Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-09-2014, 11:24 AM   #1
Wulf
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 31
HD Tivo 652160 - Odd Behavior with 2TB Drives

I'm having a very strange issue with my lifetime HD Tivo 652160. My wife and I keep a lot of shows stored, so I regularly back up my 2TB hard drive using JMFS (and originally supersized with WINMFS). I've done these backups a few times over the past several years, but on my latest backup, the Tivo hangs up on the first “Powering Up” screen when I use the new drive (the destination drive in the JMFS copy). The exact symptom is that it displays the “Powering Up” screen for a minute or two, then the display goes black for a few seconds, and the “Powering Up”/black cycle repeats indefinitely. Now here's where it gets strange:

- The Tivo also hangs the same way if I put the original 2TB drive (The JMFS source) back in.
- I have a third 2TB backup drive with an image from a couple of years ago – it was not touched as part of the latest backup process. The Tivo hangs the same way with that drive.
- In the past, this Tivo has functioned fine running any of these three 2TB drives.
- I figured I must have damaged the motherboard on the Tivo when I opened it up (I'm careful about static electricity, but stuff happens), so I decided to buy another, complete lifetime 652160 off of ebay. That unit (call it Tivo #2) has an upgraded 1TB drive, and works fine as received. However, #2 also hangs the same way with any of my 2TB drives.
- My original Tivo (#1) starts up fine if I put the 1TB drive from #2 in it.
- I checked voltages on the power supplies on both Tivos thinking it may be a one-in-a-million chance that they both have weak power supplies, but they measured fine. All caps look perfect, nice flat tops.
- I've unplugged the wireless adapter and even the cable input during start-up, and even tried a different HDMI cable and different input on the TV, just in case I have a bad connector or cable somewhere. I also pulled the Cablecard.
- Just for reference, the JMFS source drive from the recent copy is a WD20EARS. The destination was a WD20EURS and the drive with the two year old backup is a Samsung ST2000DL004.

So in summary, I have three 2TB drives, two of which have worked in the past in Tivo #1, and now they all result in a hangup at the first “Powering Up” screen. And I get the same problem if I put the same three drives in a second Tivo. And both Tivos will boot up fine if I put a 1TB in.

I know this is is super-odd, but if anyone has any ideas, please let me know. My goal is to get a Tivo working with one of the later 2TB drives because we have a lot of archived programming.

Thanks.
Wulf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2014, 03:37 PM   #2
lpwcomp
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: John's Creek, Georgia
Posts: 5,008
I'm not sure what you hoped to accomplish with a second TiVo. You can't move a disk from one TiVo to another and retain the recordings.
__________________
James L. Sutherland
"You know TiVo users. Bunch of b****y little girls" TiVoAxe

"Jessica Fletcher visits Midsomer. Carnage ensues!"
lpwcomp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2014, 03:49 PM   #3
squint
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 674
I don't know what the problem is but I can tell you what I would do next if I was in your shoes.

Is there data on any of the 2 tb drives that you don't need? In other words, could you erase one by overwriting it with a fresh 652 image? This would eliminate software corruption as the culprit.
squint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2014, 04:55 PM   #4
worachj
Registered User
 
worachj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Eagan, MN
Posts: 785
Not much help, but if I understand this correctly...
  • The 1TB drive works in both TiVo's (#1, #2)
  • None of the 2TB drives work in any of the TiVo's.
I thought there may be a bad hard drive cable or power cable on TiVo #1, but the drives still won't work on TiVo #2 which should have good cables.

My guess is that the 2TB drives got corrupted. My guess is that it happen when you connected them to a Windows computer for the JMFS backup.

But you said the untouched 2TB drive hangs also, so I'm back to a bad cable.
__________________
S2, S3 (OTA), TiVo Hd, Premiere (OTA), Roamio Basic (Comcast Cable).
worachj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2014, 05:41 PM   #5
Wulf
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by lpwcomp View Post
I'm not sure what you hoped to accomplish with a second TiVo. You can't move a disk from one TiVo to another and retain the recordings.
Well, that's what I had hoped to accomplish. Didn't know it wouldn't work. Fortunately, we have a couple of HD Tivos, and this one doesn't have any recordings that are that important. But I'm not going to mess with our primary Tivo since it's working fine.

I'm going to try a restart with no hard drive, just to see if the behavior is the same. I hope Tivo didn't push a recent update that keeps a Tivo HD from restarting with am expanded/supersized drive.

I also should have an original 160 GB drive here somewhere. When I find it, I'll see if it starts with that.
Wulf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2014, 05:47 PM   #6
Wulf
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by worachj View Post
Not much help, but if I understand this correctly...
My guess is that the 2TB drives got corrupted. My guess is that it happen when you connected them to a Windows computer for the JMFS backup.
That's what I thought too. It's a different Windows PC than I used for all prior JMFS backups. This one is Windows 8, previous backups were done on a W7 system. But as you said, the behavior of the 2 year old backup drive doesn't support this.

Thanks for you input...
Wulf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2014, 05:59 PM   #7
ThAbtO
TiVoholic by the bay
 
ThAbtO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 4,616
If you are trying to archive shows, swapping drives in a Tivo is a bad method as it will only work on a specific Tivo box.

Did you know you can download shows to a computer, or another Tivo, and still have those shows playable on any of your Tivos at any time? Programs such as Tivo Desktop, PyTivo, will download shows to the computer as well as the ability to upload them back. Another program, called KMTTG, only can download the shows, but borrows another feature from PyTivo to send it back.
__________________
Series 2 (PLS, sold)
TiVo HD 1TB (157 HD Hrs, PLS, "652")
Roamio! Oh, wait, Its Juliet!

~~~~~

The TiVo Apocalypse begins on Sat 2013 Feb 16 00:00 GMT!
ThAbtO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2014, 06:00 PM   #8
Wulf
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by squint View Post
Is there data on any of the 2 tb drives that you don't need? In other words, could you erase one by overwriting it with a fresh 652 image? This would eliminate software corruption as the culprit.
I found the original 160GB drive from this system. It starts up fine with that. So yes, I think my next step is to take the 2TB drive that I backed up with JMFS (not the 2-year old one, but the current backup) and overwrite that with a copy/expand/supersize from the 160 GB with JMFS and WinMFS and see what happens.

Thanks....
Wulf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2014, 06:01 PM   #9
Wulf
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThAbtO View Post
If you are trying to archive shows, swapping drives in a Tivo is a bad method as it will only work on a specific Tivo box.

Did you know you can download shows to a computer, or another Tivo, and still have those shows playable on any of your Tivos at any time? Programs such as Tivo Desktop, PyTivo, will download shows to the computer as well as the ability to upload them back. Another program, called KMTTG, only can download the shows, but borrows another feature from PyTivo to send it back.
Didn't know - thanks!
Wulf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2014, 06:03 PM   #10
lpwcomp
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: John's Creek, Georgia
Posts: 5,008
Aside from the transfer cookie fix, it's been years since the THD s/w was updated. I recently upgraded one I had previously upgraded to 1TB to 2TB using WinMFS both times. The problems you are having may be related to your use of JMFS. You might try using WinMFS to copy and expand the 1TB drive to one of the 2TB drives.
__________________
James L. Sutherland
"You know TiVo users. Bunch of b****y little girls" TiVoAxe

"Jessica Fletcher visits Midsomer. Carnage ensues!"
lpwcomp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2014, 06:08 PM   #11
lpwcomp
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: John's Creek, Georgia
Posts: 5,008
Just use the latest version of WinMFS. It is no longer necessary to use JMFS for 2TB drives for a THD.
__________________
James L. Sutherland
"You know TiVo users. Bunch of b****y little girls" TiVoAxe

"Jessica Fletcher visits Midsomer. Carnage ensues!"
lpwcomp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2014, 06:09 PM   #12
ThAbtO
TiVoholic by the bay
 
ThAbtO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 4,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by lpwcomp View Post
Aside from the transfer cookie fix, it's been years since the THD s/w was updated. I recently upgraded one I had previously upgraded to 1TB to 2TB using WinMFS both times. The problems you are having may be related to your use of JMFS. You might try using WinMFS to copy and expand the 1TB drive to one of the 2TB drives.
Apparently, the OP was trying to archive shows by swapping Tivo drives not just backing up/upgrading them.
__________________
Series 2 (PLS, sold)
TiVo HD 1TB (157 HD Hrs, PLS, "652")
Roamio! Oh, wait, Its Juliet!

~~~~~

The TiVo Apocalypse begins on Sat 2013 Feb 16 00:00 GMT!
ThAbtO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2014, 06:24 PM   #13
lpwcomp
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: John's Creek, Georgia
Posts: 5,008
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThAbtO View Post
Apparently, the OP was trying to archive shows by swapping Tivo drives not just backing up/upgrading them.
I am aware of that but he was also trying to go from a 1TB drive to a 2TB.
__________________
James L. Sutherland
"You know TiVo users. Bunch of b****y little girls" TiVoAxe

"Jessica Fletcher visits Midsomer. Carnage ensues!"
lpwcomp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2014, 06:55 PM   #14
Wulf
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 31
The original process was just backups for use in the same Tivo. Plan B was to swap the HDD into a different Tivo when I thought the motherboard on the first Tivo was bad (I know now that that logic was bad too).

I'm currently making a backup/expand of the original 160GB drive onto one of my 2TB drives, using JMFS/WinMFS - I started before reading that just WinMFS could do it all now. I'm using the same JMFS boot CD that I've used many times in the past.

I'll update in the morning when the backup is done.

Thanks again for the support.
Wulf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2014, 08:11 PM   #15
unitron
Registered User
 
unitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: semi-coastal NC
Posts: 13,273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulf View Post
The original process was just backups for use in the same Tivo. Plan B was to swap the HDD into a different Tivo when I thought the motherboard on the first Tivo was bad (I know now that that logic was bad too).

I'm currently making a backup/expand of the original 160GB drive onto one of my 2TB drives, using JMFS/WinMFS - I started before reading that just WinMFS could do it all now. I'm using the same JMFS boot CD that I've used many times in the past.

I'll update in the morning when the backup is done.

Thanks again for the support.

If you have some way to power a hard drive, like a spare external enclosure or a long cable from a PC that's on, try a different SATA data cable between the motherboard and the drive just as an experiment.
__________________
(thisismysigfile)


"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

Darth TiVo, 14 February, 2011
unitron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2014, 06:35 AM   #16
Wulf
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 31
Progress

I tried a few things, and still can't get my existing 2TB backup drives to work, but what I did do:
  • Tried a different SATA cable with an external SATA power source - no luck. A cable issue didn't seem likely, but gotta rule things out.
  • Used my existing copy of JMFS rev104 to backup and expand from my working, original 160GB drive to one of my 2TB drives that didn't work before. That 2TB drive booted up fine on the Tivo, and showed 287 hours HD recording (I did not Supersize yet). The 160GB source drive also booted up fine after the JMFS copy.
  • Connected the working 2TB drive back to my PC and supersized with WinMFS 9.3. Booted up fine in the Tivo, showing 318 hours.

So my Tivo works fine, but my existing 2TB backups were all non-functional for some reason, both source, destination and "in storage for 2 years" drives. I intentionally used the same 3-4 year old versions of JMFS and WinMFS that I've used all along to verify that they were not the root cause of my issues.

This may turn out to be a mystery that doesn't get solved, but at least I have functional Tivos. And the extra Tivo I bought already has a home too.

One more question. I noticed that WinMFS has some repair tools: fix swap; fix bootpage option 1; fix bootpage option2; fix divorce S3. Are any of those worth trying? Those fix bootpage selections look tempting. - I'll start searching the forums for info.

Thanks again to all for the advice. As others have said, the people on this forum are great source of knowledge.
Wulf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2014, 07:09 AM   #17
Wulf
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 31
Success! WinMFS Fix Bootpage

SUCCESS!

Windows must have been mounting my drives and overwriting the boot page, even though I didn't actively take steps to make it do so.

Running WinMFS Fix bootpage Option 1 resulted in a drive that boots up in the Tivo. If anyone else ever has an issue like this, note that WinMFS help says you need to try either option 1 or option 2 one at a time. If you click both, you'll only get the "fix" applied by the last one run.

I'm going to have to do some research to figure out how to ensure that Windows doesn't mount these drives in the future.

Thanks again to all!
Wulf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2014, 04:18 PM   #18
ThAbtO
TiVoholic by the bay
 
ThAbtO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 4,616
Device/drive Manager should never be used on a Tivo drive in Windows.
Some motherboards attach HPA to drives mounted and that would cause problems on Tivo drives.
__________________
Series 2 (PLS, sold)
TiVo HD 1TB (157 HD Hrs, PLS, "652")
Roamio! Oh, wait, Its Juliet!

~~~~~

The TiVo Apocalypse begins on Sat 2013 Feb 16 00:00 GMT!
ThAbtO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2014, 11:28 PM   #19
unitron
Registered User
 
unitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: semi-coastal NC
Posts: 13,273
Fix Bootpage option 1 will set the drive to boot from partitions 2,3, and 4, regardless of how they're set before running it, and option 2 will set it to boot from partitions 5,6, and 7, regardless of previous settings.
__________________
(thisismysigfile)


"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

Darth TiVo, 14 February, 2011
unitron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2014, 04:47 AM   #20
nooneuknow
TiVo User Since 2007
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cox Cable Market, NV
Posts: 2,415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulf View Post
SUCCESS!

Windows must have been mounting my drives and overwriting the boot page, even though I didn't actively take steps to make it do so.

Running WinMFS Fix bootpage Option 1 resulted in a drive that boots up in the Tivo. If anyone else ever has an issue like this, note that WinMFS help says you need to try either option 1 or option 2 one at a time. If you click both, you'll only get the "fix" applied by the last one run.

I'm going to have to do some research to figure out how to ensure that Windows doesn't mount these drives in the future.

Thanks again to all!
I'm not sure it still works, with how they keep changing things... But, here's the fix I use when I only want Windows (Win 7 for me) to detect the the drive as hardware, and not attempt to do more:

From "run as administrator" command prompt:

diskpart (wait for the new shell prompt)
automount disable (get confirmation msg)
exit
exit

This should confirm automount is disabled, and will persist through power cycles, and until you change it back. Just type "enable" the next time, after done with TiVo (or whatever) drives. It needs to be enabled, for things like burning CDs, and for never mounted flash drives, etc. So, don't forget!

Device Manager is safe to run, to verify the drive is there, if accessed from System Properties. If you go to Computer Management to get there, Disk Manager is lurking right there, and will want to write signatures to the disks, under the guise of harmless sounding action - Don't! If you do, you've figured out how to fix it, already. Don't get lazy, as I've seen the fix bootpage fail sometimes, though...
__________________
Cisco tuning adapters should never be used inline (using the TA coax OUT port) to connect a TiVo, if MoCA is in use. Use a splitter w/PoE filter on leg to TA, use other leg for the TiVo. Enjoy!
nooneuknow is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump




Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVo® is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:45 AM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |