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Old 07-10-2013, 07:10 AM   #1
slowbiscuit
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Tivo UI showing up on Evolution HD DTAs

Interesting tidbit on how Tivo is branching out further into MSO land...

http://www.evolutionbb.com/cable/Exp...e/page650.html

New TiVoŽ UI on Evolution HD uDTAs

Operator-branded HD uDTA, powered by TiVo. Now your lowest-cost box can deliver a feature-rich user experience on every TV. The MSO-branded Evolution Digital HD uDTA is a one-way DTA served by a traditional data carousel which provides a UI experience consistent with the TiVo STB. It provides a low-cost solution for operators looking to extend TiVo service to second and third TVs with a guide and navigation experience not normally seen on DTA devices. Additionally, it’s an extremely compact device able to fit on top, beside or behind the TV.

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Old 07-10-2013, 09:38 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post
Interesting tidbit on how Tivo is branching out further into MSO land...

http://www.evolutionbb.com/cable/Exp...e/page650.html

New TiVoŽ UI on Evolution HD uDTAs

Operator-branded HD uDTA, powered by TiVo. Now your lowest-cost box can deliver a feature-rich user experience on every TV. The MSO-branded Evolution Digital HD uDTA is a one-way DTA served by a traditional data carousel which provides a UI experience consistent with the TiVo STB. It provides a low-cost solution for operators looking to extend TiVo service to second and third TVs with a guide and navigation experience not normally seen on DTA devices. Additionally, it’s an extremely compact device able to fit on top, beside or behind the TV.
Very cool.. Nice find! I wonder if TiVo gets paid anything for TiVo service on this device. I'm guessing they don't.
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Old 07-10-2013, 09:42 PM   #3
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Very cool.. Nice find! I wonder if TiVo gets paid anything for TiVo service on this device. I'm guessing they don't.
TiVo probably gets a per-device licensing fee, along with any across the board integration engineering costs, but that's about it. It's highly unlikely that there is any kind of ongoing revenue from this.
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Old 07-10-2013, 09:50 PM   #4
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TiVo probably gets a per-device licensing fee, along with any across the board integration engineering costs, but that's about it. It's highly unlikely that there is any kind of ongoing revenue from this.
Agreed... probably a one-time fee. Also increases customer satisfaction and reduces churn. I'm also guessing there might be some advertising possibility via the UI as well.
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:31 PM   #5
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Also more exposure for the brand.
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Old 07-11-2013, 07:25 AM   #6
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http://www.multichannel.com/distribu...9s-dtas/144352

Evolution cable operator customers include BendBroadband, Antietam Cable, WEHCO Video, TVMax, Cablemás of Mexico, WideOpenWest, MCTV, and Comporium, among others. While most of them are using Evolution DTAs, not all of them take the TiVo option from Evolution. Some that do buy TiVo devices through Evolution include TVMax, Comporium, and Toronto-based Compton Communications.
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Old 07-13-2013, 07:39 PM   #7
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How would the TiVo interface be useful without DVR functionality? It's very DVR-centric...
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Old 07-15-2013, 04:14 PM   #8
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How would the TiVo interface be useful without DVR functionality? It's very DVR-centric...
I question why a cable company would use this at all, seem to me it just more hardware to keep track of. Just officer a STB with DVR. I think everything going to end up being VOD streaming. Everything will be built into the TV no cable cards, tuning adapter or STB.
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Old 07-15-2013, 05:13 PM   #9
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I question why a cable company would use this at all, seem to me it just more hardware to keep track of. Just officer a STB with DVR. I think everything going to end up being VOD streaming. Everything will be built into the TV no cable cards, tuning adapter or STB.
John, this is a significantly lower cost option for the cable company. Every STB has a CableCARD due to the separable security mandate. That CC costs them $40-$50 each. These universal DTAs can be made very low cost compared to a non-DVR set-top box. They also offer lower size & power.
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Old 07-15-2013, 06:02 PM   #10
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I question why a cable company would use this at all, seem to me it just more hardware to keep track of. Just officer a STB with DVR. I think everything going to end up being VOD streaming. Everything will be built into the TV no cable cards, tuning adapter or STB.
Well, there will still be an STB. The concept of giving up control to the network really sucks, but many people may eventually accept that. Hopefully CC and USB SDV boxes will be able to work with a TiVo even in a world that's entirely based on a network DVR and complete SDV.

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John, this is a significantly lower cost option for the cable company. Every STB has a CableCARD due to the separable security mandate. That CC costs them $40-$50 each. These universal DTAs can be made very low cost compared to a non-DVR set-top box. They also offer lower size & power.
$40-$50?!?!? Who's getting all the licensing fees from that? I'd be shocked if the hardware cost $4.
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Old 07-15-2013, 06:04 PM   #11
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Well, there will still be an STB. The concept of giving up control to the network really sucks, but many people may eventually accept that. Hopefully CC and USB SDV boxes will be able to work with a TiVo even in a world that's entirely based on a network DVR and complete SDV.



$40-$50?!?!? Who's getting all the licensing fees from that? I'd be shocked if the hardware cost $4.
Yeah... it is crazy how expensive CCs are.. that number is accurate and has been disclosed by a number of people in the industry including Charter in their latest waiver requests...
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Old 07-15-2013, 09:13 PM   #12
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How would the TiVo interface be useful without DVR functionality? It's very DVR-centric...
I don't think that's necessarily true. The TiVo guide, program info, Parental control, closed captioning, and all of that are perfectly functional without the DVR functions.

I'm one of those that uses my TiVo "wrong," and watch most stuff live, and I can tell you the TiVo interface is perfectly fine for watching live TV.
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Old 07-16-2013, 06:09 PM   #13
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Yeah... it is crazy how expensive CCs are.. that number is accurate and has been disclosed by a number of people in the industry including Charter in their latest waiver requests...
I want to know who all of the money is going to!!! The hardware in those things is like $5 tops, probably more like a buck or two. There have to be some absurd licensing fees involved.

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I don't think that's necessarily true. The TiVo guide, program info, Parental control, closed captioning, and all of that are perfectly functional without the DVR functions.

I'm one of those that uses my TiVo "wrong," and watch most stuff live, and I can tell you the TiVo interface is perfectly fine for watching live TV.
It works in the same way that driving a dump truck to work works. But now they are selling the dump truck without the dump part.
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Old 07-16-2013, 06:18 PM   #14
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I want to know who all of the money is going to!!! The hardware in those things is like $5 tops, probably more like a buck or two. There have to be some absurd licensing fees involved.
So would TiVo and others who have repeatedly asked the FCC to investigate why a product used in the quantity it is hasn't gone down in price.

It is especially curious when CableCARDs haven't changed in years since M-cards were introduced yet the prices continue to rise including what the operators pass on to the consumers.
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Old 07-16-2013, 08:30 PM   #15
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So would TiVo and others who have repeatedly asked the FCC to investigate why a product used in the quantity it is hasn't gone down in price.

It is especially curious when CableCARDs haven't changed in years since M-cards were introduced yet the prices continue to rise including what the operators pass on to the consumers.
It is not cost. it is a function of price gouging by two monopoly conditional access providers. You can only use a MOT card on a MOT system.
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Old 07-17-2013, 07:50 PM   #16
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It is not cost. it is a function of price gouging by two monopoly conditional access providers. You can only use a MOT card on a MOT system.
Couldn't PACE or somebody else make cheap ones that work on a Moto system? Or Comcast farm it out to some other cheap, generic chinese manufacturer?
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Old 07-17-2013, 07:54 PM   #17
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Couldn't PACE or somebody else make cheap ones that work on a Moto system? Or Comcast farm it out to some other cheap, generic chinese manufacturer?
I'm a little bit confused by the assertion that Moto cards only work on Moto systems and Cisco/SA cards only work on Cisco/SA systems. The assertion comes from someone very much on the inside. Evolution, in fact, has a qualified M-Card that meets the OpenCable 2.0 Specs. I think the intent of the standards is for the cards to be interchangeable but I'm guessing there could be interoperability problems that results in the assertion that it is easiest for a cable operator to maintain the brand equality between the head-end conditional access and the CableCARD. It appears that the Evolution card is only compatible with Conax encryption.

http://www.evolutionbb.com/cable/Evo...ubpage426.html
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Old 07-18-2013, 08:42 AM   #18
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It depends if Motorola or Cisco/SA is willing allow others to make them, and on what terms. If they were to, it would probably be on economic terms that would not change the end user price of the cards anyway.

It is not who makes the cards, it is what the CA system protocol the provider uses that dictates what CA system card they need for their customer boxes or to issue to customers for CC devices.

Yes the cards need to be interoperable in consumer CC (Opencable) hardware, but does not need to be such on a cable system, or in provider supplied set-top or grateway devices.
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Old 07-18-2013, 08:50 AM   #19
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It depends if Motorola or Cisco/SA is willing allow others to make them, and on what terms. If they were to, it would probably be on economic terms that would not change the end user price of the cards anyway.

It is not who makes the cards, it is what the CA system protocol the provider uses that dictates what CA system card they need for their customer boxes or to issue to customers for CC devices.

Yes the cards need to be interoperable in consumer CC (Opencable) hardware, but does not need to be such on a cable system, or in provider supplied set-top or grateway devices.
Thanks for answering that question!
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Old 07-18-2013, 06:24 PM   #20
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Since Comcast owns the gear, can't they get other manufacturers to make stuff that works with Moto or SA systems? Also, how do they get stuff like the X1 or DTAs to work that will work across either one?
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Old 07-18-2013, 06:42 PM   #21
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FYI Cox at least in Orange County, CA which is a Motorola Headend is using Cisco boxes for their "whole home DVR". I don't know what CableCard is being used in the box but I would assume it's Motorola just like they have for their Moto boxes and dispense for TiVo users. So it appears that it is possible to have somewhat of a hybrid system, though don't know to what extent.
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Old 07-18-2013, 07:25 PM   #22
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FYI Cox at least in Orange County, CA which is a Motorola Headend is using Cisco boxes for their "whole home DVR". I don't know what CableCard is being used in the box but I would assume it's Motorola just like they have for their Moto boxes and dispense for TiVo users. So it appears that it is possible to have somewhat of a hybrid system, though don't know to what extent.
I would think that a box made by Cisco for Cox, or any other provider would ship with Cisco cable card in it.
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Old 07-18-2013, 07:57 PM   #23
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I would think that a box made by Cisco for Cox, or any other provider would ship with Cisco cable card in it.
Could be, but either way it's talking to a Motorola headend in this case.
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Old 07-18-2013, 08:35 PM   #24
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I would think that a box made by Cisco for Cox, or any other provider would ship with Cisco cable card in it.
No, the Cox Cisco WHDVR w/ the Trio IPG runs on tru2way, also known as CableLabs' OpenCable Application Platform.

Both Moto and SA/Cisco CableCARDs are used in the Cisco boxes, depending on the system Headend configuration.

Let me clarify this:
  • When Cisco DVR/STBs are ordered for a Cisco market, the units come paired with SA/Cisco CableCARDS
  • When Cisco DVR/STBs are ordered for a Motorola market, the units ship without a CableCARD and the local Cox Motorola market inserts and pairs the Moto Cards to the Cisco units.

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Old 07-18-2013, 09:24 PM   #25
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That's bizarre. On Comcast, they use all Cisco gear with Cisco markets, and Moto with Moto. Comcast is really dumb, as they are a Motorola company, but have a few Cisco markets here and there. They seriously need to unify and covert over everyone on to a single system.
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