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Old 09-21-2014, 06:49 PM   #1
JohnB1000
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Doctor Who "Time Heist" OAD 9/20/14

Well I'm one of the positive one's on this season but another enjoyable episode. Not great, they can't all be, but watchable and enjoyable.

I liked the reference back to the phone number in the shop, that points back to that being Missy related.

Some predictable parts, especially the Architect being the Doctor, but I like all the timey wimey stuff.

I like the little references like ""Big scarf. Bow tie. Bit embarrassing"
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Old 09-21-2014, 06:51 PM   #2
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My only annoyance was that, to me, it was obvious from the outset that "The Architect" was The Doctor
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Old 09-21-2014, 07:22 PM   #3
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My only annoyance was that, to me, it was obvious from the outset that "The Architect" was The Doctor
It helps to be slow sometimes, it took me longer
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Old 09-21-2014, 07:57 PM   #4
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I'm finding that the columnist doing the Doctor Who write-ups for HuffPo, Irina Dvalidze, has been making some rather astute observations about this season's episodes. In this week's article, Irina has this to say:
Quote:
I was very disappointed by the portrayal of Miss Delphox/Madame Karabraxos. The richest woman in the universe is basically the same person we've seen in Steven Moffat's universe at least 5 other times: Miss Kizlet, Madame Kovarian, Darla von Karlsen, Tasha Lem, even Madame Vestra and to some extent River Song herself. All of these characters depict a one dimensional "woman in charge" that is a mix between a 1950s pin up and a dominatrix head of a corporation in kitten heels. This same Moffat-esque woman is a familiar sight to all Sherlock fans, who've gotten an eyeful of Irene Adler. Working on a show where all of space and time is your limit, why is it so hard to create a woman that doesn't fit into cookie cutter mold of what one man thinks is a strong female lead.
Other than that, it was a solid episode... not a great episode, but not horrible.
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Old 09-21-2014, 08:09 PM   #5
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I agree, plus I've always thought that Keeley Hawes is hot and they wasted her here.


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Old 09-21-2014, 08:32 PM   #6
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It helps to be slow sometimes, it took me longer
Ditto. More enjoyable that way, too.

I liked this one the best of the current season and I liked Capaldi better, but I'm still not loving him.
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Old 09-21-2014, 09:28 PM   #7
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I liked it. I didn't figure out the Architect was the Doctor until he mentioned that he must be a time traveler.
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Old 09-21-2014, 11:50 PM   #8
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The last two episodes have both suffered from the Moffat loop paradox. In this one the only way that Karabroxas could get the Doctor's number was to call the Doctor which she couldn't have done unless she had the Doctor's number.
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Old 09-21-2014, 11:53 PM   #9
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The last two episodes have both suffered from the Moffat loop paradox. In this one the only way that Karabroxas could get the Doctor's number was to call the Doctor which she couldn't have done unless she had the Doctor's number.
Not a paradox. That is a consistent closed time loop.

If the Doctor had gotten her call and then gone back in time and murdered her before she called him, then THAT would be a paradox.
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Old 09-22-2014, 06:27 AM   #10
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Did anyone else pick up that the Doctor might have a thing for Clara? When he dropped her off for her date, he made a comment like "Robbing a bank. Let's see a date beat that."
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Old 09-22-2014, 07:20 AM   #11
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Did anyone else pick up that the Doctor might have a thing for Clara? When he dropped her off for her date, he made a comment like "Robbing a bank. Let's see a date beat that."
More than that, I got the impression that it was his intent to one-up her date with Pink and that he came up with the idea of the heist as the way to do so. His comment at the end wasn't an afterthought but rather a smug self-congratulation that he had pulled off what had been his plan from the start (date-trumping, not bank-heisting)
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Old 09-22-2014, 07:32 AM   #12
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I'm finding that the columnist doing the Doctor Who write-ups for HuffPo, Irina Dvalidze, has been making some rather astute observations about this season's episodes. In this week's article, Irina has this to say:


Other than that, it was a solid episode... not a great episode, but not horrible.
That quote is spot on. You could also add Nanny/Miss Foster from the adipose episode.
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Old 09-22-2014, 08:49 AM   #13
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That quote is spot on. You could also add Nanny/Miss Foster from the adipose episode.
Same character archetype, but different showrunner and writer (RTD).
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Old 09-22-2014, 09:51 AM   #14
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The fact that the Doctor was the Architect wasn't obvious to me. I had considered the possibility at the beginning, and when we found out that the Architect was a time traveler, it made that possibility more likely.

But I also thought it could have been Missy. If she was the woman in the shop, then she has the Doctor's phone number. She also has the ability to teleport people across space and possibly time. (Either she time travels in a ship to their location and beams them out or she simply teleports them to her location and time.) And the way Psi and Saibra "died" made me think that they were really being teleported to her.

As far as Madame Karabraxos is concerned, while I do so some similarities with Madame Kovarian and Tasha Lem, I don't see Madame Vestra, River Song, or Miss Kizlet being that similar. And we barely even got to know Darla von Karlsen, so I don't see how anyone could say anything about her. Plus, she was also being mind-controlled by Daleks.

What it is about all these women that makes them more similar to each other than the similarities between any other characters in the show? The fact that they are all assertive? The fact that some of them are ruthless killers? A lot of the male "evil leaders" are similar in that regard too.

What about all the other women on the show? Do we just ignore them? Even in this episode, Saibra wasn't anything like that. Clara isn't anything like that. Journey Blue in Into the Dalek wasn't anything like that.

What other "dimensions" ought the writers to have added to the little interaction that we saw between Karabraxos or Delphox and the Doctor and Co.? Should they have had Karabraxos break down and cry about how she grew up poor in an abusive household on a farm, and that is what made her so obsessed with wealth and power? They did have her feel remorse on her deathbed for the being she had enslaved, so that's at least something.
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Old 09-22-2014, 10:27 AM   #15
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I don't think the Doctor has a romantic thing for Clara at all. It's more like a childish bit of attention seeking. He just wants to be better and more important than other people in her life. This is very consistent withe Matt Smith's version also. There's no way they would go the romance route after saying they were getting away from that.

I agree that there are plenty of strong women characters in the show but the "big bad" female characters like variety.
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Old 09-22-2014, 10:33 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by LoadStar View Post
I'm finding that the columnist doing the Doctor Who write-ups for HuffPo, Irina Dvalidze, has been making some rather astute observations about this season's episodes. In this week's article, Irina has this to say:
I agree with the general thrust of what Irina Dvalidze is saying but one thing that she has failed to do is to decide what sort of woman has Steven Moffat created with Missy.

I am going with controlling hostage taker from hell (not liberating guardian angel from paradise).
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Old 09-22-2014, 10:40 AM   #17
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I agree with the general thrust of what Irina Dvalidze is saying but one thing that she has failed to do is to decide what sort of woman has Steven Moffat created with Missy.

I am going with controlling hostage taker from hell (not liberating guardian angel from paradise).
Could you possibly have posted something wrong ?

How could the article discuss someone who has appeared in the show for a combined 1 minute at this point ?
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Old 09-22-2014, 10:54 AM   #18
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I don't think the Doctor has a romantic thing for Clara at all. It's more like a childish bit of attention seeking. He just wants to be better and more important than other people in her life. This is very consistent withe Matt Smith's version also. There's no way they would go the romance route after saying they were getting away from that.
I agree with this. especially the last line. No way they are going there. Another possibility is protecting her from Pink? Maybe he knows something we don't know about him?

I also can see where the writer is coming from as far as female characters but the male characters are not much different when we meet them for such a short period of time.
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Old 09-22-2014, 01:11 PM   #19
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Just listened to this week Doctor Who podcast. I was about ready to stop listening due to Trevor's negativity so I was glad to find out he was not on. Everyone else liked it well enough. Then Trev comes with his prerecorded show review, the others thought it was one and had not listened. Then Trev goes on about how he is the biggest Doctor Who fan in the world and how the show is being destroyed. I only lasted about 90 seconds. He sold out the others and just about said everything about himself.
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Old 09-22-2014, 04:06 PM   #20
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I guess I'm in the minority, but I'm just not warming to Capaldi. I don't feel Moffat is writing to define a new Doctor and the series so far could almost have featured any of the Doctors to date - and virtually any companion, to a degree as well.

IMO, we need an episode or two that defines him as an original.
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Old 09-22-2014, 05:47 PM   #21
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I agree that there are plenty of strong women characters in the show but the "big bad" female characters like variety.
Did you mean that the bad female characters lack variety? <FX: shakes fist at auto-correct>
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Old 09-22-2014, 06:37 PM   #22
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I guess I'm in the minority, but I'm just not warming to Capaldi. I don't feel Moffat is writing to define a new Doctor and the series so far could almost have featured any of the Doctors to date - and virtually any companion, to a degree as well.

IMO, we need an episode or two that defines him as an original.
I agree with you completely! This last episode was, in my opinion, the best so far but still not really a standout episode and again had nothing to distinguish the new Dr. I'm not sure I'll ever warm up to Capaldi but of course I'll still be watching!!

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Old 09-22-2014, 07:37 PM   #23
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I thought the last two episodes were good, but all the episodes with Capaldi so far to me at least seem like the Doctor has been the weakest character. I think his strongest showing has actually been the Robin Hood episode which was less than good.

I'm still on board for a bit, hoping Capaldi will grow on me.
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Old 09-24-2014, 04:46 PM   #24
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I think the actress that plays Clara is about as cute as cute gets and I think it's hilarious that her charms seem completely lost on this Doctor. When she tried showing off how dolled up she was for her date, he looked at her like she was something he'd stepped in. He's just incredulous when he looks at her. And the other week he was saying, "Her face is so wide she needs three mirrors!" (a throwback to an insult from one of her students combined with his puzzlement over her need for three mirrors). Their chemistry is very different than with the previous doctor but I'm finding it pretty fun.
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Old 09-24-2014, 07:10 PM   #25
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I think the actress that plays Clara is about as cute as cute gets and I think it's hilarious that her charms seem completely lost on this Doctor. When she tried showing off how dolled up she was for her date, he looked at her like she was something he'd stepped in. He's just incredulous when he looks at her. And the other week he was saying, "Her face is so wide she needs three mirrors!" (a throwback to an insult from one of her students combined with his puzzlement over her need for three mirrors). Their chemistry is very different than with the previous doctor but I'm finding it pretty fun.
Me too, except that I think he's just winding her up.
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Old 09-24-2014, 08:07 PM   #26
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Me too, except that I think he's just winding her up.
Could be, but I suspect this Doctor is just utterly socially clueless...
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Old 09-24-2014, 10:15 PM   #27
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Could be, but I suspect this Doctor is just utterly socially clueless...
Yes. I think we're supposed to take this to be further evidence of this more-alien-than-previous-post-2005-Doctors incarnation. That 1) he's unfamiliar with our conceptions of what is and isn't attractive, 2) he doesn't know what is and isn't appropriate to say, and 2a) he doesn't realize how insulting he's being to her.

I'm not sure it's coming across that way to everyone, and in fact I have no idea if that's really the intent. It's just my take on the situation as we've seen it so far.
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Old 09-25-2014, 07:39 AM   #28
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Yes. I think we're supposed to take this to be further evidence of this more-alien-than-previous-post-2005-Doctors incarnation. That 1) he's unfamiliar with our conceptions of what is and isn't attractive, 2) he doesn't know what is and isn't appropriate to say, and 2a) he doesn't realize how insulting he's being to her.
I agree. Which is why I don't think the Doctor is jealous of Pink in the "I'm interested in Clara" way, but more in the "Why is she wasting time with that guy? I can travel through time and space. What can he do?" manner.

If the Doctor subconsciously chose this face, I wonder if other aspects of himself were molded during previous regenerations. Perhaps Time Lords become more like those they are around with each regeneration, thus explaining why the Doctor seemed to becoming more human until the big reset. That could also be one reason for why the Time Lords were isolationist. They might have wanted to remain "pure" by only hanging around each other.
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