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Old 04-01-2014, 09:15 PM   #1
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Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - "End of the Beginning" -04/01/14

Thought it started out okay, but the second half was awesome... let's hope the promised 'game changer' really boots it up a notch.

So, was the scene with Nick Fury and the Winter Soldier part of the episode or part of a preview for the movie? I wasn't quite sure but I'm assuming it was part of the episode but taken from the movie.
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Old 04-01-2014, 09:22 PM   #2
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So, was the scene with Nick Fury and the Winter Soldier part of the episode or part of a preview for the movie? I wasn't quite sure but I'm assuming it was part of the episode but taken from the movie.
It was an ad for the movie.
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Old 04-01-2014, 11:15 PM   #3
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I'm pretty convinced who the "mole" is. May is too obvious. I think she's reporting to Fury (maybe Hand?). My guess is the agent paired with May at the assisted living center. He purposely shot Deathlok with the tracking bullet (good job!), so they could track him to the "Clairvoyant", who could get Ward to shoot him.

Why did Deathlok leave? They were all in one room, completely off their guard for any threat from outside the room once they found the "Clairvoyant". One missile and they're all dead.
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Old 04-01-2014, 11:18 PM   #4
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Wow, Saffron Burrows seems like she's still pissed from having been in Wing Commander.
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Old 04-02-2014, 12:39 AM   #5
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I'm pretty convinced who the "mole" is. May is too obvious. I think she's reporting to Fury (maybe Hand?).
I would think that May's reporting to Fury due to the events leading into The Winter Soldier story.

Fury's been unavailable for a while now so there's other stuff that's going on.

I'm leaning towards Victoria Hand being the mole though.
Spoiler:

She has something of a checkered history in the comics.


But I reserve the right to reevaluate after I see The Winter Soldier movie.
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Old 04-02-2014, 01:57 AM   #6
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I'm leaning towards Victoria Hand being the mole though.
Leaning? I thought it was obvious. She ordered everyone on the plane killed except for Coulson. How could that be legitimate? Unless Fury ordered her to do it (does anyone else outrank her?).
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Old 04-02-2014, 02:12 AM   #7
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Leaning? I thought it was obvious. She ordered everyone on the plane killed except for Coulson. How could that be legitimate? Unless Fury ordered her to do it (does anyone else outrank her?).
Or someone pretending to be Fury?
Maria Hill would also outrank Hand.
Not sure if Alexander Pierce does or not.
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Old 04-02-2014, 01:26 PM   #8
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Leaning? I thought it was obvious. She ordered everyone on the plane killed except for Coulson. How could that be legitimate? Unless Fury ordered her to do it (does anyone else outrank her?).
No one ordered her to do it. Garrett is the Clairvoyant and he is the one who told Ward to kill Nash, who Ward is now covering for out of loyalty, and it will come out that he gave Hand some bad info about Coulson's team which is why she decided to take them out.

Also, I'm guessing for the Captain America movie that:
Spoiler:
Sitwell is the one in the bodybag because Fury is too big to kill.


If you reply to that with a spoiler, let me know if it's speculation or if you've seen the movie already in a preview. I don't want to know for real.
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Old 04-02-2014, 01:34 PM   #9
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No one ordered her to do it. Garrett is the Clairvoyant and he is the one who told Ward to kill Nash, who Ward is now covering for out of loyalty, and it will come out that he gave Hand some bad info about Coulson's team which is why she decided to take them out.
I certainly hope you are wrong about that. If she can just unilaterally decide to execute a bunch of their own agents on a whim like that, the whole SHIELD organization is just evil. It is already bad enough that they apparently have no concept of an illegal order.
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Old 04-02-2014, 02:10 PM   #10
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I certainly hope you are wrong about that. If she can just unilaterally decide to execute a bunch of their own agents on a whim like that, the whole SHIELD organization is just evil. It is already bad enough that they apparently have no concept of an illegal order.
Even if Garrett just presented them with evidence that the ship is turning to attack them or some such justification?
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Old 04-02-2014, 02:44 PM   #11
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Even if Garrett just presented them with evidence that the ship is turning to attack them or some such justification?
If they really think the plane is minutes away from unleashing some weapon of mass destruction, it would make sense to give an order to shoot it down (assuming they have repeatedly tried to make contact already).

But I do not see any way a decent person can just give the order to kill everyone on the plane except Coulson. If she had said to capture them, and only fire if fired upon, that would be one thing. But that is not what she said.
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Old 04-03-2014, 09:18 AM   #12
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I thought the Winter Soldier's identity was supposed to be a secret for non-comic readers, but the ad gave away his identity pretty plainly.
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Old 04-03-2014, 09:39 AM   #13
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I thought the Winter Soldier's identity was supposed to be a secret for non-comic readers, but the ad gave away his identity pretty plainly.
Yeah, it's obviously the same actor, so anybody who recognizes him will know who he is.

I suspect they figured the Truth Was Out There in the form of the comics, and it would spread regardless of what they did, so there was no point in trying to keep it a secret.
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Old 04-03-2014, 10:56 AM   #14
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Yeah, it's obviously the same actor, so anybody who recognizes him will know who he is.

I suspect they figured the Truth Was Out There in the form of the comics, and it would spread regardless of what they did, so there was no point in trying to keep it a secret.
I think they had already let it slip in some of the earlier promotional material. It's impossible to keep secrets like that these days anyway.

Though I'm amazed by the extent to which people treat adapted franchises as if the source material doesn't exist. Peter Dinklage was on The Daily Show the other night and they were talking about GoT spoilers. He made a joke about it, and next day I saw a seemingly-serious blog post speculating on what he said and reporting how he refused further comment. Really, you're following the show and its actors that closely, yet you can't be bothered to pick up the books (or the Cliff's Notes, or ask a friend who's read them...)?!?
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Old 04-03-2014, 11:53 AM   #15
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I think they had already let it slip in some of the earlier promotional material. It's impossible to keep secrets like that these days anyway.

Though I'm amazed by the extent to which people treat adapted franchises as if the source material doesn't exist. Peter Dinklage was on The Daily Show the other night and they were talking about GoT spoilers. He made a joke about it, and next day I saw a seemingly-serious blog post speculating on what he said and reporting how he refused further comment. Really, you're following the show and its actors that closely, yet you can't be bothered to pick up the books (or the Cliff's Notes, or ask a friend who's read them...)?!?
I saw that. He said "read the books" and Jon Stewart responded "Do you know what country you are in?"
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Old 04-04-2014, 12:10 PM   #16
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If anyone has seen Captain America 2 yet this show is going to get interesting soon.

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Old 04-04-2014, 12:31 PM   #17
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Yeah, I can't wait for next weeks episode now.
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Old 04-04-2014, 12:59 PM   #18
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I can't imagine they'll spoil the movie in the TV show just a few days after its release?
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Old 04-04-2014, 01:17 PM   #19
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I can't imagine they'll spoil the movie in the TV show just a few days after its release?
They've already said it has a major tie in.

And if you've seen the movie, it's almost impossible for the movie to not impact the show. Since they jumped through hoops to make the weeks line up, so that this weeks show comes out the week after the movie, yes, I think they intend for the impact of the movie to be seen in this weeks episode.
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Old 04-04-2014, 01:18 PM   #20
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I can't imagine they'll spoil the movie in the TV show just a few days after its release?
I suspect there will be a lot of SHIELD stuff happening around the edges of the movie's story that will feed directly into the show. So not "spoil" so much as "resonate."
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Old 04-04-2014, 01:20 PM   #21
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Let me put it another way.

Agent Sitwell had to leave during last weeks episode. He got called away. During the movie, we see where he went. It's that tightly integrated.
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Old 04-04-2014, 01:20 PM   #22
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As long as it's all explained in the show, I have no problem with it. I like the SHIELD tv show and the only Marvel movie I've seen was The Avengers, which I just watched on Netflix a few months ago.
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Old 04-04-2014, 05:18 PM   #23
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I'm really curious to see how they handle it. It's very different from Thor in that they could reference the incidents in Thor 2 but it didn't have much of an impact on TV show and the TV show didn't spoil the movie at all. SHIELD is a major player in Captain America 2 and it's near impossible for the movie not to have an impact on the TV show or to avoid spoiling plot points and outcomes of the movie in the TV show.
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Old 04-04-2014, 05:43 PM   #24
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I'm really curious to see how they handle it. It's very different from Thor in that they could reference the incidents in Thor 2 but it didn't have much of an impact on TV show and the TV show didn't spoil the movie at all. SHIELD is a major player in Captain America 2 and it's near impossible for the movie not to have an impact on the TV show or to avoid spoiling plot points and outcomes of the movie in the TV show.
Except they've gone to great lengths to establish Coulson's team as being very much on the fringe of SHIELD. I suspect it won't be too hard to refer to CA2 developments in terms strong enough to make the references clear to people who have seen the movie, but not so strong as to spoil major plot points of the movie. Remember that Coulson is on a very specific mission (find the Clairvoyant) that will, I suspect, not even be mentioned in the film. So he and his team can be going about their business with the movie's events being far enough in the background as not to be a major distraction.
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Old 04-04-2014, 05:59 PM   #25
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Except they've gone to great lengths to establish Coulson's team as being very much on the fringe of SHIELD. I suspect it won't be too hard to refer to CA2 developments in terms strong enough to make the references clear to people who have seen the movie, but not so strong as to spoil major plot points of the movie. Remember that Coulson is on a very specific mission (find the Clairvoyant) that will, I suspect, not even be mentioned in the film. So he and his team can be going about their business with the movie's events being far enough in the background as not to be a major distraction.
Yes but at the end of the movie..

Spoiler:
SHIELD is essentially disbanded. Maria Hill and Sharon Carter are working elsewhere, Fury is off on his own etc. I don't know how they can't reference that SHIELD seems to be no more.

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Old 04-04-2014, 06:42 PM   #26
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No, I think the revelations in the movie will dovetail nicely with the revelations in the TV show.
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Old 04-04-2014, 06:43 PM   #27
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No, I think the revelations in the movie will dovetail nicely with the revelations in the TV show.
The question is... how badly will that annoy those of us who won't see the movie immediately. If the tie-in is too tight, it could backfire...
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Old 04-04-2014, 06:58 PM   #28
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The question is... how badly will that annoy those of us who won't see the movie immediately. If the tie-in is too tight, it could backfire...
Might I recommend you go see it this weekend?

I'm being purposely coy here, because I know it only opens today and many people reading this thread will not have seen it, but there are BIG events in the movie, that should/must directly impact what happens in the show. It is the single most SHIELD-centric movie of all (that should have been clear from the trailers).

I wouldn't be surprised if Marvel isn't doing this to try to boost first weekend ticket sales, because I can't imagine how they could NOT have it affect the series dramatically. This isn't Thor, where SHIELD was ancillary around the edges. This entire movie is about what SHIELD is, what it stands for, how it works, what its goals are, etc.

If the movie had been entitled "SHIELD - Guest Starring Captain America" they wouldn't have had to change a frame. It's that much of a SHIELD movie.
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Old 04-05-2014, 12:52 AM   #29
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Coulson and crew are headed to the Triskelion. That just happens to be the place of a major battle in the movie and is very damaged.

So what are our options? Coulson got there before the movie? Coulson got there after the movie?

In either case, the fact that they moved the show around to arrive at this episode so it would appear after the movie makes me think they will have the events of the movie happen before the episode.

It's entirely possible that Coulson and crew end up in an edge case, or a time bubble, so events of the movie don't happen for a couple of weeks, but it seems more likely that Coulson will arrive and experience the events of the movie. Though because of the large impact, I could see it taking a couple of episodes to get to that in the show, giving every one time to go see the film. Coulson and crew could get sidetracked before arriving and take an episode or two to get free, and then go see the results.

Either way, though, either the film is going to spoiler the TV show, or the TV show is going to spoiler the film. I don't know how they could avoid both.
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Old 04-05-2014, 02:55 AM   #30
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Coulson and crew are headed to the Triskelion. That just happens to be the place of a major battle in the movie and is very damaged.

So what are our options? Coulson got there before the movie? Coulson got there after the movie?

In either case, the fact that they moved the show around to arrive at this episode so it would appear after the movie makes me think they will have the events of the movie happen before the episode.

It's entirely possible that Coulson and crew end up in an edge case, or a time bubble, so events of the movie don't happen for a couple of weeks, but it seems more likely that Coulson will arrive and experience the events of the movie. Though because of the large impact, I could see it taking a couple of episodes to get to that in the show, giving every one time to go see the film. Coulson and crew could get sidetracked before arriving and take an episode or two to get free, and then go see the results.

Either way, though, either the film is going to spoiler the TV show, or the TV show is going to spoiler the film. I don't know how they could avoid both.

I still think you are overlooking the biggest point which is

Spoiler:
SHIELD doesn't exist anymore. That's a huge plot point that is going to be hard to overlook. The movies aren't going to be able to deal with the results until the next Avengers movie in the summer of 2015. The TV show is going to have to bridge a pretty wide gap.

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