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Old 06-25-2013, 05:35 PM   #61
DevdogAZ
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Originally Posted by Squeak View Post
The problem I had with it was while it was going on, I had no idea if he was really telling the truth or not (since he is such a prolific liar).

I still don't know how much of what he said was really what happened, and how much of it has been changed to fit the narrative he wants to believe about himself.
What reason would he have to lie in that moment, when he's literally throwing his career down the tubes and killing any chance he has of landing such an important account? The whole point of that scene was that Don was finally coming clean and finally telling someone the truth about who he is. To look at that skeptically and wonder if it was true means you missed the point of the scene.
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Old 06-25-2013, 06:01 PM   #62
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What reason would he have to lie in that moment, when he's literally throwing his career down the tubes and killing any chance he has of landing such an important account? The whole point of that scene was that Don was finally coming clean and finally telling someone the truth about who he is. To look at that skeptically and wonder if it was true means you missed the point of the scene.
I didn't miss the point of the scene. What I said was *during* the scene I had a hard time knowing if it was the truth. I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Draper is a liar. He lied about his first connection to Hershey's. Once he started in, how was I to not know it wasn't another lie?

Afterwards, sure I can see that, but in the heat of the dialogue, I was suspicious.
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Old 06-25-2013, 06:45 PM   #63
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There is only one way for this show to end and that's with Don jumping off a tall building and plummeting to the ground just like in the intro. And it couldn't happen to a nicer guy. Without a doubt that character is one of the most self-destructive personalities of all time. Why anybody puts up with all his BS I have no idea. They should have shown him the door last season.
So it's going to end with Don jumping off a tall building, and then end up sitting on a bench (or maybe it's a wide chair) and smoking a cigarette?

I'm going to bet that the end will be something else.
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Old 06-25-2013, 07:47 PM   #64
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So it's going to end with Don jumping off a tall building, and then end up sitting on a bench (or maybe it's a wide chair) and smoking a cigarette?

I'm going to bet that the end will be something else.
It's obviously just a Weekend at Bernie's scenario where Don's dead body is propped up during a cocktail party where the remaining partners of the firm are entertaining potential buyers. He'd probably contribute more to the effort as a corpse than alive.
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Old 06-25-2013, 08:44 PM   #65
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Excellent season finale, probably the best of the season.
Don't go out on a limb, there!
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Old 06-25-2013, 10:52 PM   #66
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I think a lot of people here are reading way too much meaning into things that happened in this episode and throughout the season.

Spoiler:
Matt Weiner consistently says in his end-of-season interviews, as he did again this week, that he and his writers don't ever hold anything for later seasons. They dump out all the story they know by the end of each season. They often end up writing themselves into corners that they don't know how to get out of, and then they have to spend the offseason figuring out the solutions. Some of what is speculated about here could happen next season, but I believe Weiner when he says he has no idea what next season will be about. It'll be a coincidence if speculation and reality end up aligning.

James Wolk, who plays Bob Benson, is a regular on The Crazy Ones (with Robin Williams) next season. No guarantee we will see him on Mad Men anymore. Weiner has said he has no idea if Wolk will be available. He's not holding any big Bob Benson stories in reserve for later.

Weiner has also said that he knows what the last shot of the series will be, but not how it gets there. I doubt that shot is of Draper splattered on a sidewalk.

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Old 06-26-2013, 06:39 AM   #67
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Bob seems to be weaziling in on a lot of office secrets. There has to be more to the Bob story than we know already. Maybe it's just him being a junior Don Draper, but I think there really is something sinister about him, and I'd be surprised if it doesn't come out next season. I'd actually kind of be disappointed if it doesn't.

Maybe the series ends with Bob narrating the story to his kids and they title the episode "How I took over the firm"
I certainly hope not! Bob is a weazel and doesn't seem very bright and his character, well, is not charismatic at all (unlike Don). I'm not sure where they're going with Bob, but I'm not liking his role or seeing the purpose to it.......
I guess we'll find out.


On another topic....this sums up Pete and Don for me:

Pete = the guy you love to hate.

Don = the guy you hate to love.
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Old 06-26-2013, 07:26 AM   #68
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I certainly hope not! Bob is a weazel and doesn't seem very bright and his character, well, is not charismatic at all (unlike Don). I'm not sure where they're going with Bob, but I'm not liking his role or seeing the purpose to it.......
I guess we'll find out.


On another topic....this sums up Pete and Don for me:

Pete = the guy you love to hate.

Don = the guy you hate to love.
On Bob, I totally disagree about him not being too bright. I think he's very bright. I believe he was in on the plot to kill Pete's mother, and he certainly set that all up by giving him the opportunity to hire his BF. He also managed to figure out ways to get into the good graces with Joan (probably realizing she "runs" things at CSP and she's probably the best source of info about the firm). He also was smart enough to set up Pete and GM so he could't be on the account. Do I like the character? No. But really, there's not many characters on the show that we are even supposed to like (Maybe Joan and Peggy).

For some reason, this season, I've come to sorta like Pete. Maybe it was that he kept painting himself in a corner, or that he's arrogance started to backfire on him and he seemed less of an a-hole because of it. As for Don, TV is famous for likable rogues, and he fit the bill for most of the series run. This year? I just thought he was mostly a jerk, and not very likable. I have a hard time with people who has good things around him and just don't see it.
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:24 AM   #69
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Who was the second guy at the elevator?
I thought one was a former Sterling-Cooper employee now a headhunter and the other a current employee of Dancer-Fitzgerald which was one of the largest ad agencies at the time.
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:31 AM   #70
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On Bob, I totally disagree about him not being too bright. I think he's very bright. I believe he was in on the plot to kill Pete's mother, and he certainly set that all up by giving him the opportunity to hire his BF. He also managed to figure out ways to get into the good graces with Joan (probably realizing she "runs" things at CSP and she's probably the best source of info about the firm). He also was smart enough to set up Pete and GM so he could't be on the account. Do I like the character? No. But really, there's not many characters on the show that we are even supposed to like (Maybe Joan and Peggy).

For some reason, this season, I've come to sorta like Pete. Maybe it was that he kept painting himself in a corner, or that he's arrogance started to backfire on him and he seemed less of an a-hole because of it. As for Don, TV is famous for likable rogues, and he fit the bill for most of the series run. This year? I just thought he was mostly a jerk, and not very likable. I have a hard time with people who has good things around him and just don't see it.
I pretty much agree with most all of this.

Bob knew what he was doing. He may not be likable to US but he sure is likable to everyone else (except Pete).

I also felt linking towards more for Pete than Don this season.
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:33 AM   #71
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I thought one was a former Sterling-Cooper employee now a headhunter and the other a current employee of Dancer-Fitzgerald which was one of the largest ad agencies at the time.


One was Duck Philips. He used to work for Sterling Cooper. I don't remember the second guy. If he had appeared before, he may have been in a small, passing role.
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:42 AM   #72
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I read somewhere that the other guy was from a rival firm. We only saw him once briefly, when he came up to Don and Roger (I think) in an airport lounge to make fun of them for losing a big account.
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:50 AM   #73
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I read somewhere that the other guy was from a rival firm. We only saw him once briefly, when he came up to Don and Roger (I think) in an airport lounge to make fun of them for losing a big account.

Something about loosing Vicks. I remember the scene, but not the people making the jokes. Not saying people are wrong. Just that I personally don't remember every single character that has ever appeared on the show.
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:59 AM   #74
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I agree, never in 100 years would I remember that very minor character.
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:21 AM   #75
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I don't think you were supposed to necessarily remember him. What you needed to know:

1) Don was fired
2) Covering for him (managing Peggy) will be "short term"
3) Duck is now an executive recruiter (shown MANY times this season)
4) As Don is leaving Duck shows up with some guy and Don says "You are early"

So - Don is out and the firm is immediately hiring his replacement, using Duck as a recruiter.
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:28 AM   #76
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Yeah, that definitely was the guy that made fun of SCDP losing Vick's, but it doesn't really matter. It could be any ad guy being brought in and the message would be the same (but using Duck the recruiter to bring him in makes the message more clear).

As an aside, is Freddie still at SC&P? He disappeared after they brought him back.
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:57 AM   #77
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I read somewhere that the other guy was from a rival firm.
Duck introduced him as from Dancer-Fitzgerald.
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Old 06-26-2013, 12:13 PM   #78
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I don't think you were supposed to necessarily remember him. What you needed to know:

1) Don was fired
2) Covering for him (managing Peggy) will be "short term"
3) Duck is now an executive recruiter (shown MANY times this season)
4) As Don is leaving Duck shows up with some guy and Don says "You are early"

So - Don is out and the firm is immediately hiring his replacement, using Duck as a recruiter.
Yep, that's how I saw it, and good explanation of the comment "You are early". Makes perfect sense. I recognized Duck, not the other guy, but I guess they had it all lined up to replace Don as soon as possible. Maybe this was coming way before the Hershey's episode, but that was the final straw.
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Old 06-26-2013, 03:13 PM   #79
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On that note, is it realistic that the firm would be conducting an interview for Don's replacement on the morning of Thanksgiving? I understand the need to hold the meeting and let Don go, but would they really want to stick around and interview new candidates on the holiday? Why couldn't that wait until Monday?
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Old 06-26-2013, 03:15 PM   #80
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I certainly hope not! Bob is a weazel and doesn't seem very bright and his character, well, is not charismatic at all (unlike Don). I'm not sure where they're going with Bob, but I'm not liking his role or seeing the purpose to it.......
I guess we'll find out.
Are you serious with the bolded portion? Bob is not charismatic? That's all Bob is. He oozes charisma. That's his best attribute.
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Old 06-26-2013, 03:17 PM   #81
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On that note, is it realistic that the firm would be conducting an interview for Don's replacement on the morning of Thanksgiving? I understand the need to hold the meeting and let Don go, but would they really want to stick around and interview new candidates on the holiday? Why couldn't that wait until Monday?
seems unlikely. Hell, i think it's unlikely they would have called a meeting with the partners and fired Don on Thanksgiving Day.

But really, it doesn't matter. Don is canned from SCP. And Duck is bringing in a candidate for the head of creative.
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Old 06-26-2013, 03:23 PM   #82
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seems unlikely. Hell, i think it's unlikely they would have called a meeting with the partners and fired Don on Thanksgiving Day.

But really, it doesn't matter. Don is canned from SCP. And Duck is bringing in a candidate for the head of creative.
But is he really canned, or just on a leave?

Matt W. was pretty clear that we will have to wait and see how that plays out.
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Old 06-26-2013, 03:37 PM   #83
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I think the partners did what they could legally do given Don's partnership in the company. The intention is to fire him, but his ownership makes that messy, so they put him on a leave of absence and will try to work out the legal issues in order to complete the separation. That's my interpretation of what the partners told him during that meeting. And Don simply leaving without getting any kind of specific answers as to how long the suspension would last implies that he understands he was fired.

Now will that still be the case when S7 begins? No idea. There are many ways that relationship could be patched up at some point. But as of Thanksgiving morning, 1968, Don Draper was fired from the firm for all intents and purposes.
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Old 06-26-2013, 03:50 PM   #84
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I think the partners did what they could legally do given Don's partnership in the company. The intention is to fire him, but his ownership makes that messy, so they put him on a leave of absence and will try to work out the legal issues in order to complete the separation. That's my interpretation of what the partners told him during that meeting. And Don simply leaving without getting any kind of specific answers as to how long the suspension would last implies that he understands he was fired.

Now will that still be the case when S7 begins? No idea. There are many ways that relationship could be patched up at some point. But as of Thanksgiving morning, 1968, Don Draper was fired from the firm for all intents and purposes.
Agreed. Don being a Partner makes "firing" him a complicated matter.
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Old 06-26-2013, 04:18 PM   #85
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When do we get the answers to all these questions?
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Old 06-26-2013, 04:29 PM   #86
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Season 5 premiered on March 25, 2012 and season 6 on April 7, 2013.

So if AMC keeps to a similar schedule, season 7 will premier either towards the end March or early April of 2014.
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Old 06-26-2013, 08:21 PM   #87
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Are you serious with the bolded portion? Bob is not charismatic? That's all Bob is. He oozes charisma. That's his best attribute.
I think he oozes charm, not charisma.
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Old 06-26-2013, 08:41 PM   #88
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I'm surprised how many people are blowing off this scene. Yours is the closest analysis/opinion to mine that i find compared to anybody else who posted about it....I thought that was the most powerful scene in the episode, heck in the season.
TOTALLY agree with this....I was shaking my head and saying "wow" out loud as that scene progress. Probably some of the best teevee I've seen in a few years.
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Old 06-26-2013, 08:45 PM   #89
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...Interesting bit with him then NOT drinking, getting the shakes and Ted seeing it and telling him to take a shot before the meeting.
Not true...they clearly showed him taking a drink in his office before he went into the meeting.
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Old 06-26-2013, 08:47 PM   #90
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Not true...they clearly showed him taking a drink in his office before he went into the meeting.
Yes. But I thought that was AFTER Ted said something.
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